Matching new keys to 2006 Phaeton?

[jyoung8607]

After a push-button start, you don't need a key present in a Phaeton to keep driving. It won't tell you a thing until next time you try to start it. I knew this, but never really thought about it much until today. Today I was distracted while loading some things in the car, and drove to a gas station to fill up... turns out I left my key at home. And of course nobody's answering their phones at home, so I had a four mile walk-of-shame to retrieve it. That sucked.

My car appears to be Immo 4a/KESSY. Jack@EPE retrieved my PIN for me some time ago; I can confirm it works. I've verified successful Security Access to 05-Acc/Start Auth. I've done business with Mark at sidewinderkey.com before, and intended to order a new key from him, but his page makes it sound like Phaeton and Touareg keys are extremely magic in some way and he apparently won't even attempt to cut one.

Questions:

1) Is the dealer truly the only source for these keys? I'll go there if needed, just trying to figure out why they're so unique.

2) Should the regular Immo 4a procedure in RT's Wiki work for me?

3) Does anyone know a reason why the plastic "emergency" key 3D0 837 216 wouldn't work? PL24 grays it out for my car. That would be perfect to hide somewhere on the car.

4) If I get a key with a remote, does matching it to KESSY also handle the remote functions? Used to this being in 46-Central Conv. on my Passat, but I don't see a way to do that here.

Jason

Obligatory Auto-Scan:

Sunday,28,June,2015,19:51:17:21122
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 8 x64
VCDS Version: 15.6.0.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150604
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWAK03D868005728   License Plate: 2006PHAETON
Mileage: 140410km-87246mi   Repair Order: IMMO-Q



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 3D (JY2 - My 2006 VW Phaeton)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 15 16 17 19 28 29 34 36 37 38 39
          46 47 65 68 71 76
 
VIN: WVWAK03D868005728   Mileage: 140410km-87246miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP1.lbl
   Part No SW: 07C 906 018 AJ    HW: 000 000 000 00
   Component: D1-6.0L-AT-LEV2 G  ª8188  
   Revision: --H01---    Serial number: VWZ3Z0F7470400
   Coding: 0000173
   Shop #: WSC 03738 444 38140
   VCID: 6D9208DC75C37C5728-5184

3 Faults Found:
001072 - Catalyst System; Bank 2 
               P0430 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 10100010
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 16
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 136159 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2140 /min
                    Load: 35.7 %
                    Speed: 115.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 96.0°C
                    Temperature: 36.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.208 V

001299 - Incorrect Immobilizer Key 
               P0513 - 008 -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 136385 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1693 /min
                    Load: 18.8 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 89.0°C
                    Temperature: 43.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.938 V

006435 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2 
               P1923 - 008 - 
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 140411 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 0 /min
                    Load: 0.0 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 67.0°C
                    Temperature: 68.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.811 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 3D0-927-156.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 927 156 AB
   Component: AG5 01L 6.0lW12 USA 1010  
   Coding: 0000002
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 689C79C85A21597F5B-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 614 517 AK
   Component: ESP 5.7 allrad  H33 0047  
   Coding: 0008397
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 6B9606C44BD7726736-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth.        Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
   Part No SW: 3D0 909 137 C    HW: 5WK 484 97
   Component: G1 Kessy            6700  
   Revision: 67006015    Serial number: VWZ3Z0F7470400
   Coding: 0213228
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 271E3AF497BF960792-5184

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 4E0 905 852 E
   Component: ELV                 1940

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass        Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 959 759 CA
   Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF    1720  
   Coding: 0000003
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 77BE2AB4079FC687C2-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head        Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 035 008 QX
   Component:    ZAB COCKPIT      9923  
   Coding: 0500305
   Shop #: WSC 03207 444 84420
   VCID: 004C41685251813FF3-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 907 040 J
   Component: Climatronic D1      2031  
   Coding: 0000002
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 250230FCEDB38417A0-5184

1 Fault Found:
00716 - Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113) 
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 3D0-937-049-V1.clb
   Part No: 3D0 937 049 H
   Component: STG.Bordnetz        5101  
   Coding: 0000003
   Shop #: WSC 03207 444 84420
   VCID: 2F2ED2D4BF4FCE475A-5184

1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management 
            000 -  - 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II        Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP2.lbl
   Part No SW: 07C 906 018 AJ    HW: 000 000 000 00
   Component: D1-6.0L-AT-LEV2 G  ª8188  
   Revision: --H01---    Serial number: VWZ3Z0F7470400
   Coding: 0000173
   Shop #: WSC 03738 444 38140
   VCID: 6D9208DC75C37C5728-5184

4 Faults Found:
012953 - Catalyst System; Bank 4 
               P3299 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100010
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 17
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 136129 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2183 /min
                    Load: 42.7 %
                    Speed: 117.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 100.0°C
                    Temperature: 38.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.081 V

012952 - Catalyst System; Bank 3 
               P3298 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100010
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 15
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 136325 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2112 /min
                    Load: 37.6 %
                    Speed: 112.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 104.0°C
                    Temperature: 39.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 12.700 V

001299 - Incorrect Immobilizer Key 
               P0513 - 008 -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 136385 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 1671 /min
                    Load: 17.6 %
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 89.0°C
                    Temperature: 45.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 11.684 V

000013 - Camshaft Positioner (Bank 2 Exhaust) 
               P000D - 008 - Slow Response - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 0
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Mileage: 137072 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2075 /min
                    Load: 14.5 %
                    Speed: 112.0 km/h
                    Temperature: 95.0°C
                    Temperature: 26.0°C
                    Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                    Voltage: 13.208 V


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 909 601 H
   Component: 04 Airbag 8.4E++H01 0554  
   Revision: BB38727     Serial number: 0006635<      
   Coding: 0012340
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 281C39C89AA1997F9B-5184

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D0 959 339 
   Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0005

1 Fault Found:
01316 - ABS Control Module 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 255
                    Time Indication: 0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 3D0-953-549.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 953 549 E
   Component: Lenksäulenmodul     3401  
   Coding: 0000232
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 2F2ED2D4BF4FCE475A-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 920 982 B
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB8 0521  
   Coding: 0005221
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 271E3AF497BF960792-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<>CAN      0101  
   Coding: 0000006
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 70AC11A862F191BF03-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 28: HVAC, Rear        Labels: 3D0-919-158.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 919 158 F
   Component: Klima-Bedienteil D1 0117  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2E10CFD0B845C74F51-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light        Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 909 157 
   Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l)  0001  
   Coding: 0000001
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 668077F050354F0F69-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control        Labels: 3D0-907-553-V2.clb
   Part No: 3D0 907 553 C
   Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122  
   Coding: 0005531
   Shop #: WSC 53212 053 999999
   VCID: 271E3AF497BF960792-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr        Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 959 760 CA
   Component: Sitzmemory D1 F     1720  
   Coding: 0000004
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 6FAE12D47FCF8E471A-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation        Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 919 887 F
   Component:    NAVIGATION       9968  
   Coding: 0400000
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 373EEAB4471F068702-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics        Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 907 135 C
   Component: Dachmodul           0708  
   Coding: 0000015
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 23062EE4E3877A27CE-5184

1 Fault Found:
00220 - Connection to Sunroof 
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light        Labels: 3D0-909-158.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 909 158 
   Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r)  0001  
   Coding: 0000001
   Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
   VCID: 679E7AF4573F560752-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 959 933 F
   Component: X3 HSG              0102  
   Coding: 0000040
   Shop #: WSC 03325 444 13946
   VCID: 3326DEA45367EAA73E-4B3C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D1 959 701 L
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 6001

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 3D1 959 702 L
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 6001

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 3D0 959 703 K
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 6001

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 3D0 959 704 K
   Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 6001

   Subsystem 5 - Part No: 3D0 909 610 C
   Component: 3L HDSG             2330

   Subsystem 6 - Part No: 7L0 907 719 A
   Component:    Neigungssensor   0020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System        Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 035 466 A
   Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST      0118  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 200C21E8F291613FD3-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 65: Tire Pressure        Labels: None
   Part No: 3D0 907 273 G
   Component: Reifendruckueberw.  0026  
   Coding: 0411224
   Shop #: WSC 03207 444 84420
   VCID: 2A18C3C084ADAB6F8D-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr.        Labels: 3Dx-955-1xx-V1.clb
   Part No: 3D1 955 119 A
   Component: Front Wiper         2005  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 271E3AF497BF960792-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger        Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
   Part No: 3D0 915 181 D
   Component: Batteriemanagement  2800  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 24042DF8E6897D1FB7-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist        Labels: None
   Part No: 3D0 919 283 D
   Component: 03 Einparkhilfe     0907  
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2B16C6C48B57B26776-5184

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 04:23)--------------------------

 

[Uwe]

I *think* a 2006 Phateon's Kessy should work just like the Touareg of that vintage, in which case you should be able to match keys to it using VCDS *if* you have the PIN code (which it sounds like you do). IIRC (and this is from fooling around with our 2004 T-Reg 10-12 years ago) it slightly different than the normal Immo-III procedure in that it won't learn the key you have in the ignition when you save the correct adapation channel; it does the first learning only after you pull that key out and re-insert one, but my memory is fuzzy.

As for whether the dealer is the only source for keys, I really don't know. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

-Uwe-

 

[jyoung8607]

Thanks Uwe. I agree it should be similar to contemporary Touaregs.

I was editing my post to add question #4 just as you replied. Do you happen to know if the KESSY matching process covers the remote control button functions too? I'm used to seeing this in 46-Central Conv. on Mk4/B5 vehicles, fully separate from Immo matching, and I was surprised to not see anything related in the Phaeton's #46 label file.

Jason

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Hello Jason,

I have the keys available in addition I have the transponders solo, so you can add them to an AFT key that doesn't have it or the wrong one.
Cutting the key and duplication is also something I can do.........dealer is not only choice.

Remotes must be married separate from the transponder RFID device ( pill ) in key, and are not required to be married to start 0x05.

VCDS should be able to marry a dealer or AFT key with the correct unlocked transponder.


Since push button start, you could hide a pill wrapped in TINFOIL in the car with no key.

 

[jyoung8607]

I have the keys available in addition I have the transponders solo ... Cutting the key and duplication is also something I can do.........dealer is not only choice.

Good. I'll move the business part to email.

Remotes must be married separate from the transponder RFID device ( pill ) in key, and are not required to be married to start 0x05.

Ok, so how are the remotes married to the car?

Since push button start, you could hide a pill wrapped in TINFOIL in the car with no key.

Hmm... that's not a bad idea at all.

Jason

 

[Uwe]

In our 04 Touareg, which had full Kessy, but originally no Start Button (we retrofit that, I think Michael did the same in his '04 Phaeton), everything got matched at once. A key was either matched to the car or it wasn't, there was no separate process to do the remote.

-Uwe-

 

[jyoung8607]

In our 04 Touareg, which had full Kessy, but originally no Start Button (we retrofit that, I think Michael did the same in his '04 Phaeton)

He did indeed, and he wrote the book on how to do it, essentially translating what the Touareg owners had learned since they have the same setup. I used said book to do it on mine.

everything got matched at once. A key was either matched to the car or it wasn't, there was no separate process to do the remote.

Makes sense... don't see any other way. PL24 does mention 'RF' remotes for non-keyless Phaetons... maybe they get a different CCM equipped to receive that stuff.

Jason

 

[Zenerdiode]

A key was either matched to the car or it wasn't, there was no separate process to do the remote.

That's certainly the way it's done on the later systems; like the 'Advanced Key' on my '09 A4 B8 8K. The connection with the Mothership is established, some technical mutual backslapping takes place between car and mothership, then key is clicked into keyslot. Everything is then done, from using it 'conventionally' in the slot, through advanced key in your pocket to conventionally as a remote.

 

[Uwe]

some technical mutual backslapping takes place between car and mothership

I think this would be better described as "Exchange of bodily fluids".

-Uwe-

 

[jyoung8607]

I just need something to go simple and easy this month...

The dealer got a main key for me with no problems, but the emergency key has been an adventure. They took the order and sent me a key, and it was cut with the right pattern, but the cut stopped short of complete. It can't be inserted all the way into the ignition lock cylinder, so it can't be turned. It seems the sidewinder keys for Phaeton and Touareg use an (apparently) identical HAA sidewinder key blank but have a ~3-4mm longer pattern cut. And, apparently there are key machines which can cut the short pattern but can't cut the long pattern. My dealer parts guys tried to help me out using their in-house key-cutting machine but it won't go that far either. So, now we are trying to educate the VW parts depot in New Jersey.

The dealer already sent them a side-by-side comparison photo including the incomplete plastic key, but I don't have that picture. I sent these photos later to add to the ticket.

The parts depot's first response was that it can't be turned because it isn't matched to the Immobilizer. So, I had to come back down to the dealer and demonstrate that the new main key, which isn't yet Immo matched, can be fully inserted and turned just fine. They also said there's no tumblers in the ignition cylinder and that any key, including a blank, should physically fit. They're half right; I'm given to understand any Phaeton or Touareg key can be inserted and turned. I wasn't sure about a blank, because you can actually feel tumblers or something tracing the key as you insert it. So my dealer guy brought out a blank, and we confirmed it can't be inserted at all. Finishing move: I demonstrated my 2004 Passat key being inserted but stopped just a bit short... at exactly the same depth the incomplete plastic key is stopped. So it's purely a length-of-cut problem.

Not sure why it's so hard to convince the VW parts depot to cut the key properly when we've sent them photographs of exactly how it's cut wrong. But, as always, props to the parts and service department at Fairfield Volkswagen for working with me. They're good people and I highly recommend them.

Jason

 

[Jetta 97]

Hello Jason,



Remotes must be married separate from the transponder RFID device ( pill ) in key, and are not required to be married to start 0x05.

Ok, so how are the remotes married to the car?

Remote is automatically programed when you program key . I just did one and did so many of them and every time is like this.

I have the keys available in addition I have the transponders solo, so you can add them to an AFT key that doesn't have it or the wrong one.
VCDS should be able to marry a dealer or AFT key with the correct unlocked transponder.

This is only going to work if you have Dump from Kessy ( Eeprom file) to precode key with special tool, VCDS can not do precoding of the key. Otherwise just blank transponder not possible to program to cars with Kessy.

 

[jyoung8607]

Success, basically.

The dealer handed me a printout of VW's last bit of sage advice today: "This key is not meant to start the vehicle, it is for emergency entry into the vehicle only. There is a chip in the head of the emergency key for access authorization in the door cylinders." Three separate fails in two sentences, and didn't even address the question of why it isn't cut right.

The parts manager at my dealer volunteered to creatively (ab)use his key machine to finish the cut as best he could. After a couple tries, we got it inserting and turning smoothly, if not pretty. At that point, it would have been smart to take it home and experiment with the Immobilizer in my own driveway. So, of course I matched the key and started the car with the parts manager sitting next to me. He already believed me, but you know, principle of the thing. Also I didn't want him to think I jerked him around for nothing.

Jason

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

On the key blade swap note...........