No Response From Controller

   #1  

jandrews123

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Hello forum,

I have an ongoing issue with my 2.5TDI 2002 T4 transporter. The engine runs but very lumpy at idle. There is no power when driving. Originally thought it was turbo issue but now thinking its a fuel timing problem as lots of blow by in crankcase (crankcase breather popping off). Possibly a dud ECU but it does run and drive so not sure.

This led me onto posting on T4forums, where I was asked to use VCDS. I attempted first a Gendan KKL cable and could only get communication with the immobo and dash display. Since then I have purchased the Hex V2, with same result. I also checked the following:

- continuity of the diagnostic wires from the fuse box to the ECU,
- the diagnostics point checked earths, checked live, check continuity to the immobo, radio is disconnected but checked the continuity on the K line all using/following official T4 wiring diagrams.

Didnt find any problems there.

The interface connects fine, but have noticed that the Vignition voltage is 0.03V not sure if this is because of an issue on the van, or because my vcds socket doesnt have power from the ignition like other vehicles may? I do of course get ignition voltage on the van when turning the key.

Could someone please support me in attempting to connect to the ECU please. Below the only data I could pull using the Autoscan feature. When clicking on other modules (such as Engine-01) I receive no response error message.


Code:
Chassis Type: 70 (70 - VW Transporter/Multivan (1991 > 1996))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 22 25
VIN: WV1ZZZ70Z2H130152
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
Part No: 6X0 953 257
Component: IMMO 0008
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 7DA7F71344EF0B03A49-4B1E
WV1ZZZ70Z2H130152 VWZ1Z0B2022104
No fault code found.
End----(Elapsed Time: 01:46, VBatt start/end: 14.5V/14.5V. VIgn 0.0V)------

***I also carried out another scan for a different chassis number as the year in brackets matched my van and these are the results.***

Code:
Chassis Type: 70 (7D - VW Transporter/Multivan (1996 > 2004))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 18 19 22 25 35 37 56
VIN: WV1ZZZ70Z2H130152 Mileage: 439800km-273279miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 7D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 7D0 920 902 P
Component: T4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V01
Coding: 00411
Shop #: WSC 02757
VCID: 313F1B23C8373F63701-5184
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.clb
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 02757
VCID: 70B9DE2703BD766B3FF-5184
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
Part No: 6X0 953 257
Component: IMMO 0008
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 7DA7F71344EF0B03A49-4B1E
WV1ZZZ70Z2H130152 VWZ1Z0B2022104
No fault code found.
End----(Elapsed Time: 03:08, VBatt start/end: 14.5V/14.5V. VIgn 0.0V)------

Back Story - Maybe relevant, maybe not.

Originally van wouldnt start at key turn first go, would have to repeat key turn, this led onto not starting at all. Van always ran well up until this point. Been remapped in the past.

Found melted cables from the glow plugs to the ignition key. New wiring looms fitted to engine and key by myself, new glow plugs. Van would then turn over but not stay running. New cable was fitted to the Fuel shut off solenoid from ignition (by garage) allowing van to start, I had previously found that wire to the fuel shut off solenoid was very corroded, and I broke this during attempting to remove solenoid. I supplied new solenoid to mechanic when van when in to his garage, but he didnt use the new one, just added a wire from ignition switch to the fuel shut off solenoid, mechanic said seems to be an issue with immobo (he was using Vagcom) so he bypassed it, but never mentioned anything about ECU communication. The van wont start if non immobo key is used, so its not actually bypassed like he said, just the fuel shut off solenoid.

Since receiving the van back, it runs like a mess as previously stated. I have a guy providing guidance on the T4forums but VCDS is not connecting so at a standstill currently.

T4Forums post if you wanted to read:

 
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   #2  

Bruce

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You should have an ABS controller. It too is not showing up in the scan. That's a common fail in vehicles of this age. Did you try unplugging the ABS? It could be that the ABS module is tying up the K-Line connected to the ECU and ABS module. If memory serves, both are on the same K-Line. You should check the wiring diagrams to see which modules are on which K-Line.

If you do an interface test, what does it report? [Options][Test]
 
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   #3  

Uwe

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Vignition voltage is 0.03V not sure if this is because of an issue on the van, or because my vcds socket doesnt have power from the ignition like other vehicles may?
I'm reasonably confident that the T4 chassis pre-dates having T15 (switched power, indicating that the ignition is on) on Pin 1 of the diagnostic socket. Check your wiring diagrams to be sure.

You understand that the K-line does not go directly to the ECU, right? It goes to the Iimmo, and comes out of the Immo as W. This allows the Immo to disconnect the ECU temporarily so that negotiations between it and the ECU cannot be logged at the diagnostic socket. But it also means that certain failures in in the Immo can produce no communications with the ECU. Suggestion: Disconnect the Immo and put a jumper between the K and W wires on the connector. Turn ignition on and see if you can then connect to the ECU.

Also, Bruce's suggestion of disconnecting the ABS temporarily is a good one. Those ABS modules (Bosch 5.3) are famous for failing in a manner that has unpredictable consequences for communications on the K-Line.

-Uwe-
 
   #5  

jandrews123

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Hi Uwe, thanks for your support.

I jumped the K and W wires carried out another Auto Scan on 70 van and 7D, these are the results.

Wednesday,03,August,2022,18:38:17:58974
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 11 x64
VCDS Version: 22.3.1.4 (x64) HEX-V2 CB: 0.4615.4
Data version: 20220407 DS337.0
www.Ross-Tech.com




Chassis Type: 7D - VW Transporter/Multivan (1996 > 2004)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 18 19 22 25 35 37 56

Mileage: 439800km-273279miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 7D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 7D0 920 902 P
Component: T4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V01
Coding: 00411
Shop #: WSC 02757
VCID: 313F1B23C8373F63701-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.clb
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 02757
VCID: 70B9DE2703BD766B3FF-5184

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 03:14, VBatt start/end: 12.6V/12.6V. VIgn 0.0V)------
 
   #6  

jandrews123

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When attempting 01-Engine module, No response error
 
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Uwe

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my van doesnt have ABS.
That's almost inconceivable for a 2002 model.

Has your van got a Check Engine light? If so, does it come on when you turn on the ignition?

-Uwe-
 
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jandrews123

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Engine management light is not lit.
 
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Uwe

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   #10  

jandrews123

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yes it runs, very poorly. absolutely gutless and blow by in crankcase.
 
   #11  

Uwe

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Well, something is definitely broken. Could be the ECU itself. Have you verified that the W wire has continuity between the Immo and the ECU?

-Uwe-
 
   #12  

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Hi jandrews123,
I think you should do a compression test, if you have enough crankcase pressure to blow the cap off I would expect piston damage.
Regards HMC
 
   #13  

jandrews123

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Hello guys,

Uwe you were right regarding the W connection. This wire was damaged in the front of the engine. There was no connection to the ECU. I have repaired this now and lots of codes! Thank you for your support in this issue I appreciate it!

Thanks for your response HMC, the filler cap has not been blown off just the connection to the suction side of the turbo from the crankcase breather. This is just a hose pushed on with no clip so pressure isnt that excessive just not normal, and with poor turbo speed was still able to create a high pressure. Hoping it's not that serious anyway. The guys on the other forum are being very helpful so I will continue to carry on with their aid.

Thanks for the support guys!
 
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   #14  

stefdds

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Thanks for the support guys!
Your welcome.

A informative way to wrap up and mark this thread as "Resolved" would be to post a complete and unedited Auto-Scan !
 
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jandrews123

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Your welcome.

A informative way to wrap up and mark this thread as "Resolved" would be to post a complete and unedited Auto-Scan !
Not sure if we can call the van resolved just yet but I can certainly post a scan to finish up this thread. Enjoy

Code:
VCDS
Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 11 x64
VCDS Version: Release 22.3.1(x64) Data version: 20220407 DS337.0
www.Ross-Tech.com
Dealer/Shop Name:
Workshop Code: 000 00000 000000
Self-Diagnosis Log
Friday,05,August,2022,15:14:59:58974
VIN: WV1ZZZ70Z2H130152 License Plate: T400 JDG
Mileage: Repair Order:
Chassis Type: 70 (70 - VW Transporter/Multivan (1991 > 1996))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 22 25
VIN: WV1ZZZ70Z2H130152
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: Redir Fail!
Part No: 074 906 018 AK
Component: 2,5l R5 EDC 0000SG 3905
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 02757
VCID: 5F9BAD9BEE23F913965-4B7A
WV1ZZZ70Z2H130152 VWZ1Z0B2022104
5 Faults Found:
17946 - Fuel Shutoff Solenoid (N109)
P1538 - 35-10 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-10 - - Intermittent
17964 - Charge Pressure Control
P1556 - 35-10 - Negative Deviation - Intermittent
17552 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70)
P1144 - 35-00 - Open or Short to Ground
17957 - Boost Pressure Regulation Valve (N75)
P1549 - 35-10 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
Readiness: N/A
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
Part No: 6X0 953 257
Component: IMMO 0008
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000

VCID: 7DA7F71344EF0B03A49-4B1E
WV1ZZZ70Z2H130152 VWZ1Z0B2022104
No fault code found.
End----(Elapsed Time: 01:37, VBatt start/end: 14.5V/14.5V. VIgn 0.0V)------
 
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   #16  

Uwe

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Not sure if we can call the van resolved just yet
"Open or Short to Ground" faults on actuators are often indicative of a missing +12V on far side (away from the ECU) on the actuators themselves. You may want to look at a wiring diagram to see if there's a common spot those three actuators get +12 from.

-Uwe-
 

jandrews123

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That was the first scan I carried out after sorting the damaged cable and the only one I had on my laptop when replying. Im not surprised all those codes were active because all connections disconnected and reconnected when replacing the loom and from fault-finding. Since then the only code which has come up has been for the fuel shut off solenoid which I have just rewired back to as normal after the mechanic had hard-wired it from the ignition.

The ECU coms was actually secondary to the actual problem which is the poor running of the van. I have carried out an Engine fuel timing test via VCDS:

01-Engine > Measuring Blocks -08 > group 000 > switch to basic settings > TDI Timing

The graph shows the timing really out fluctuating between 30 and 51 when apparently it should be pretty stable at average 58.

Not sure how this is happening at the moment, checked the fuel pump timing belt and pullies, the belt looks spotless and a good tension. No mechanical work has been done on the van since the original starting issues last year before replacing the loom apart from replacing the glow plugs and previous to that the van ran well which makes me believe this isnt related to the belts or physical timing.

I am thinking maybe the fuel timing solenoid. Earlier I checked all the continuity to the 10 pin plug which supplies the fuel pump from ECU. No problems found there.
 
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