Bank 2 all cylinder misfires, cam sensor faults

   #61  

stefdds

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
1,429
Reaction score
1,167
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=174556
Right, post #53

I asked the OP about this back on post #23 !
 
   #62  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
Right, post #53

I asked the OP about this back on post #23 !
He did answer in a follow up post but also stated that the cam adjuster were in different positions on each bank. However I believe this is incorrect information as I'm pretty certain the adjusters should be a mirror image from bank to bank. Even picture for reference shows this is the case, this would explain the issue as well.

v632.jpg
 

Attachments

  • v6322.jpg
    v6322.jpg
    215.3 KB · Views: 2
   #63  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
As per vin and repair manual. You can clearly see that the banks must be a mirror image or each other see picture below. Red highlight shows adjusters with visible springs and pins must be mounted on exhaust cams.v63222.png
 
   #64  

stefdds

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
1,429
Reaction score
1,167
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=174556
Wow, great pics and super photos EuroX! He did have those manual pics up in Post #48 , but for some reason they are all wonky at the moment and each time you go to the post, the pics change! In post #23 the OP mentioned that he labeled them and confidently stated that "this" was unlikely. I didn't see this misplacement until he posted repair manual line drawings and then compared them to the photos.
must be a mirror image or each other
I concur ! And thanks for the great photo!

It will be interesting to read his follow up news! I just hope he lets us know
 
   #65  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
didn't see this misplacement until he posted repair manual line drawings and then c
I only noticed the misplacement once he posted actual pictures of the adjusters and you can clearly see that bank 2 has the cam adjuster on the wrong cam.
 
   #66  

stefdds

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
1,429
Reaction score
1,167
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=174556
Yes, you bet! That's why I also made that sketch with the (? VVT Spring ?) pointing to the Intake cam on Bank 2 ; once you stated that the Exhaust adjusters have the visible spring.

Do you think he touched the valves ?
 
   #67  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
Yes, you bet! That's why I also made that sketch with the (? VVT Spring ?) pointing to the Intake cam on Bank 2 ; once you stated that the Exhaust adjusters have the visible spring.

Do you think he touched the valves ?
If he just ran it at idle I think it will be ok. I will assume that's all that was done. If it had bent the valves while running the engine would stop/stall as it cant stay running on 3 cylinders, very rare to run engine with one dead bank. When turning the motor over by hand you would notice a hard spot if valves were touching piston it wouldn't be able to be rotated past a certain point. So to me I will say the exhaust cam is possibly advancing the timing on intake cam when it shouldn't be essentially opening the intake valve sooner than needed. This is the issue in my opinion. Especially since the issue developed after this repair/maint. I think the way the adjusters are numerically labeled in the repair manual falsely led the op to believe that the adjusters are installed in opposite locations from bank to bank.
 
   #68  

stefdds

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
1,429
Reaction score
1,167
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=174556
I think the way the adjusters are numerically labeled in the repair manual falsely led the op to believe that the adjusters are installed in opposite locations from bank to bank.
I didn't notice that, that would explain his reply in post #24. ( ! ) Thank you.
 
   #69  

stefdds

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
1,429
Reaction score
1,167
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=174556
@alvocado , Your not the only one! It happans, especially with indirect vision!

Discovery time: 4:50 - 9:10

 
   #70  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
Let's hope he got it sorted out and didn't give up. Looks like he went radio silence.
 
   #71  

alvocado

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
41
Reaction score
19
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=520115
Sorry for the slow reply: I've been on the road for work and am just now catching up since my last post. For some reason, I stopped receiving email notifications of posts and missed some great input.

My understanding is the intake and exhaust cams are not mirror images based on how I reassembled the cam adjusters, i.e. opposite orientations for each side. If they should be, then I clearly swapped intake and exhaust adjusters on the left/bank 2 side which would explain why those cams are out of time. I'll confirm Thursday and report back as the rear timing cover is still off the engine. Fingers crossed this is it and I didn't damage valves in the process.
 
   #72  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
Sorry for the slow reply: I've been on the road for work and am just now catching up since my last post. For some reason, I stopped receiving email notifications of posts and missed some great input.

My understanding is the intake and exhaust cams are not mirror images based on how I reassembled the cam adjusters, i.e. opposite orientations for each side. If they should be, then I clearly swapped intake and exhaust adjusters on the left/bank 2 side which would explain why those cams are out of time. I'll confirm Thursday and report back as the rear timing cover is still off the engine. Fingers crossed this is it and I didn't damage valves in the process.
Should be mirror image see post #63. Keep us posted on how you make out.
 
   #73  

alvocado

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
41
Reaction score
19
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=520115
You guys nailed it!! The adjusters are indeed reversed. This is so frustrating but I can see how I made the mistake. I'll swap them this evening provided the dealer has bolts in stock.

As mentioned, the cams appear to be in perfect time so fingers crossed everything syncs up once the adjusters are in proper position and there is no valve damage.
 
   #74  

alvocado

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
41
Reaction score
19
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=520115
So close then....I dropped the last timing chain tensioner bolt into the back of the engine. I tried to snag it with a magnetic pickup but couldn't see it or get very far into the space. I finished installing the tensioner and adjusters and tried to rotate the engine to see if the bolt cleared the lower timing components. After starting to rotate, the engine hits a hard stop. I can reverse it but it stops abruptly in the same spot when rotating clockwise.

Is this likely a valve hitting a piston now that the cam adjusters are in the correct locations? It seems there would need to be some procedure to address the valve timing that was out after swapping the cam adjusters.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: JMR
   #75  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
1,432
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
I would assume the bolt you dropped it blocking the engine from turning all the way. I would fish out the bolt.
 
   #76  

alvocado

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
41
Reaction score
19
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=520115
I would assume the bolt you dropped it blocking the engine from turning all the way. I would fish out the bolt.
That was my second thought. I'll have to get creative with a magnet as there's little clearance and the bolt is not visible.
 
   #77  

alvocado

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
41
Reaction score
19
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=520115
The bolt fell from the hole above the tensioner piston and it looks like the path would take it to one of the areas where the red circles are noted on the photo. That would bind the crank as the bolt rotates into the chain and sprocket. I don't see any way to access that area from above unless others have some creative ideas. I'm dreading the idea of having to pull the engine just to remove this bolt if that's even possible since the engine would need to be rotated to access the torque converter bolts and it won't turn.

AM-JKLWb8v_cPpmOicKiplsscwuCZpZzJP1_Q-xOWA6vRKsxSKUNLqjJLdjcczRLvhFg7CZw0gUwhZxY40fbZF22lgB1lrDSdtr-TZHDRyAMJkNsRNK1zXmfIGYdlT_RdbWBmFScDpOQzgj-AaytYyq4UlA=w1183-h820-no
 
Last edited:
   #79  

JMR

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Sep 27, 2021
Messages
3,218
Reaction score
1,902
Location
Romania
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=432218
The bolt fell from the hole above the tensioner piston and it looks like the path would take it to one of the areas where the red circles are noted on the photo. That would bind the crank as the bolt rotates into the chain and sprocket. I don't see any way to access that area from above unless others have some creative ideas. I'm dreading the idea of having to pull the engine just to remove this bolt if that's even possible since the engine would need to be rotated to access the torque converter bolts and it won't turn.

AM-JKLWb8v_cPpmOicKiplsscwuCZpZzJP1_Q-xOWA6vRKsxSKUNLqjJLdjcczRLvhFg7CZw0gUwhZxY40fbZF22lgB1lrDSdtr-TZHDRyAMJkNsRNK1zXmfIGYdlT_RdbWBmFScDpOQzgj-AaytYyq4UlA=w1183-h820-no
ay..... fcuk me !!!!!! :eek:
 
   #80  

alvocado

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
41
Reaction score
19
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=520115
ay..... fcuk me !!!!!! :eek:
This doesn't begin to reflect how I actually reacted. I was using a magnet on the socket, had a shop cloth stuffed in the gaps, and the bolt snuck by. I found myself reflecting on the 1978 Wide World of Sports intro from my youth and feeling like skier Vinko Bogataj.

 
Top