2011 S5 Cabriolet Crash

   #1  

dschwietz

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I'm currently finishing up the final tasks to get my 2011 S5 Cabriolet back on the road (3.0t engine) and have a few questions related to the airbags.

BACKGROUND
During the accident, the drivers side steering wheel airbag and knee airbag were deployed. None of the passenger airbags were deployed. The VCDS log (shown below), shows that the following are causing issues: battery interrupt igniter, Passenger Airbag Igniter, Passenger Airbag Igniter 2, Both Rear Seatbelt tensioners, Front Passenger Knee Airbag Igniter and both front crash sensors. Prior to the scan, I've replaced the drivers steering wheel airbag and knee airbag (which are no longer showing in the VCDS scan). I've also already ordered both front crash sensors and the battery interrupt igniter (but have not installed them yet).

QUESTIONS
1) Why would the passenger airbag and passenger knee airbag be showing faults if they were not deployed?
2) I have looked everywhere and cannot figure out if the passenger igniters are separate parts or if they are simply part of the airbag? I know these are dangerous parts so I would likely have Audi replace these if needed, but would like to know the specifics of what needs to be done.
3) Related to question 1 and 2, would I have to replace both passenger airbags?
4) Has anyone had luck getting their seatbelts repaired/rebuilt?

Thank you for any thoughts and guidance.

Code:
VCDS SCAN

                Address 15: Airbags       Labels: 8F0-959-655.clb
Control Module Part Number: 8F0 959 655 A    HW: 8F0 959 655 A
  Component and/or Version: AirbagVW-AU10 H11 0430
           Software Coding: 303737353631303030304A55304C38463053
            Work Shop Code: WSC 02145 785 00200
              ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaAU10SMEAU485 001004 (AU48)
                       ROD: EV_AirbaAU10SMEAU485_AU48.rod
                      VCID: 3663141F89870291843-8063
8 Faults Found:

9442587 - Igniter for battery interrupt 
             B1015 1B [137] - Resistance Too High
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 42836 km
                    Date: 2010.01.22
                    Time: 01:51:33

9437723 - Igniter for Passenger's Airbag 
             B1002 1B [137] - Resistance Too High
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 42836 km
                    Date: 2010.01.22
                    Time: 01:51:33

9437979 - Igniter 2  for Passenger's Airbag 
             B1003 1B [137] - Resistance Too High
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 42836 km
                    Date: 2010.01.22
                    Time: 01:51:33

9439515 - Seat Belt Tensioner Igniter; rear; driver's side 
             B1009 1B [137] - Resistance Too High
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 42836 km
                    Date: 2010.01.22
                    Time: 01:51:33

9439259 - Igniter for Seat Belt Tensioner; Rear Passenger's Side 
             B1008 1B [137] - Resistance Too High
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 42836 km
                    Date: 2010.01.22
                    Time: 01:51:33

9440795 - Front Passenger's Knee Airbag Igniter 
             B100E 1B [137] - Resistance Too High
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 42836 km
                    Date: 2010.01.22
                    Time: 01:51:33

9443859 - Driver's Front Airbag Crash Sensor 
             B101A 13 [137] - Open Circuit
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 42836 km
                    Date: 2010.01.22
                    Time: 01:51:31

9444115 - Front Passenger's Front Airbag Crash Sensor 
             B101B 13 [137] - Open Circuit
          MIL ON - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 42836 km
                    Date: 2010.01.22
                    Time: 01:51:31
 
   #2  

jyoung8607

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BACKGROUND
During the accident, the drivers side steering wheel airbag and knee airbag were deployed. None of the passenger airbags were deployed.

...

QUESTIONS
1) Why would the passenger airbag and passenger knee airbag be showing faults if they were not deployed?
An incredibly good question. Both first and second stage igniters for the main bag, and the knee bag are now open-circuit, consistent with having been deployed. But they're not. That's far too much for a fluke, IMO. Unless I'm missing something huge, the airbag module commanded those airbags to deploy, and it didn't happen. Did you have a passenger at the time? Or, did you have anything sitting on the passenger seat that would have set off the seat-occupied sensors?

2) I have looked everywhere and cannot figure out if the passenger igniters are separate parts or if they are simply part of the airbag?
They're a completely integral part of the airbag.

3) Related to question 1 and 2, would I have to replace both passenger airbags?
Yes, but I would take it to a dealer for inspection. Do not replace or even touch the factory parts. Start getting things on the record. Given the situation, and all the defective airbag publicity as of late, you need to tell Audi what happened. If I were in your place, I would be looking for 100% goodwill coverage from Audi on those airbags. And if I were Audi, I'd count myself lucky that's all I had to pay for.

Are you the original owner of this car? Are you certain the factory airbags were installed, as opposed to any "rebuilt" garbage or a defeat resistor?

Jason
 
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dschwietz

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Very good advice! Thank you, Jason. I will take it to the dealer and have them inspect everything. The car is out of warranty, but your logic makes very good sense since there were no passengers in the vehicle at the time of the accident.
 
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jyoung8607

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The car is out of warranty, but your logic makes very good sense since there were no passengers in the vehicle at the time of the accident.
My question about passengers was mainly curiosity. I believe most newer cars, somewhere around 2006 and forward have front passenger presence detection. So, if you had no passenger present, the airbags shouldn't have fired. So if you had no passenger, by external appearances the car behaved correctly.

You have three separate airbag fault codes consistent with the front passenger airbags having deployed. In your situation, that means two things. First, airbag deployment was commanded when you had no front passenger, which was dumb and costly, but could be forgiven if you had something sitting on the pax seat. Something as light as a shopping bag or even sometimes a cell phone can do that in my experience. Second, and far more dangerous, the igniters were burned and no airbags came out. Any front passenger you had wouldn't have had airbag protection.

Given that second problem, Audi needs to look at your car. Audi will want those airbags (and maybe even the control module) back for analysis. They shouldn't balk at goodwill coverage.

Jason
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Water ingress due to being Cabrio?

Check/clean connections and inspect main controller using WD then condemn bags with report to DOT if found to be burned/not deployed.


Codes are OPEN and Too High Resistance.
 
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dschwietz

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Jason and Jack,

I will check connections and then bring to Audi to get their thoughts. But, you both made me think of another question. For whatever reason, if Audi decides not to cover the airbags, I also need to replace the airbag control module I think (in addition to the two passenger bags). My additional questions are:
1) Can a used airbag control module be recoded or will only a new one work?
2) Is the airbag control module in the car located under the arm rest or underneath the climate control? (I've heard both).
3) Does the airbag control module have component protection?
4) what is WD?

So, my plan at this point is to check the connections and try other troubleshooting, then take the car to Audi. I still don't fully understand how the ignighters could have gone off without the airbags deploying, unless there is some type of connection problem, bags are defective or something else strange going on.

Thank you both for your help in preparing me for an dealer visit.
 
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jyoung8607

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For whatever reason, if Audi decides not to cover the airbags, I also need to replace the airbag control module I think (in addition to the two passenger bags).
I'm given to understand that newer airbag modules can be re-used a certain number of times. If you don't see a permanent "crash data stored" DTC, you may be alright. Then again, you have that weird non-deployment situation, which kind of degrades trust...

4) what is WD?
Wiring diagram, obtainable from erWin along with the factory repair manual.

So, my plan at this point is to check the connections and try other troubleshooting, then take the car to Audi. I still don't fully understand how the ignighters could have gone off without the airbags deploying, unless there is some type of connection problem, bags are defective or something else strange going on.
I differ with Jack somewhat. Jack's advice is correct if you intend to fix it yourself, or if you're the dealer tech. But you're the customer with some funky airbag issues that need forensic investigation. I submit that you should be absolutely hands-off on that entire situation. If nothing else, you don't want to be giving Audi any room to say you tampered with things and screwed them up. I can't say for sure that your airbags are defective, but they sure do look that way.

Jason
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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1) Can a used airbag control module be recoded or will only a new one work?
2) Is the airbag control module in the car located under the arm rest or underneath the climate control? (I've heard both).
3) Does the airbag control module have component protection?
4) what is WD?

1. Here in NY we are not permitted to resell or use a used SRS component in a car because it's against the law.
That being said we go new on this stuff.
Control Units can be reused as long as no crash data is displayed in the diagnostics, and all trouble codes will clear after all attribute parts are replaced or repaired.

2. The location of the unit an be found using the repair manual.

3. 2011 should yes.......

4. WD = Wire Diagram.

I respect what Jason is saying here.

Since I get posed these questions often by legal departments as third party ........ here is how I see it so far.

To me it looks based on the scan as if it is already been tampered by you or someone else.
I bet those codes were there prior to the accident and when you reset the DTC's........ you now have the new mile stamps in frequency displayed.
A shadow test for last cleared codes by the OEM Engineering department, would see that first hand in stored resets.
Time stamps back that theory.......already.

They would also send you a big fat bill too........... if you were running your mouth with nothing to back it up.

Pictures say a million words here, if you find water ingress, then you could pitch a bitch ........ but is always hard to argue in a soft top.

Me personally I would just fix it and verify everything.
I doubt anyone is gonna do anything with a car that has been slammed, and out of warranty otherwise.

Post a full auto-scan please..........and did you or someone reset the DTC'S....in 0x15?
 
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Uwe

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1) Can a used airbag control module be recoded or will only a new one work?
I would not even consider installing a used airbag control module. You don't know where it's been, what it's been through, or what "tools" have been used on it.

3) Does the airbag control module have component protection?
In a B8 platform car, I'm afraid so.

4) what is WD?
On this forum, if you see an abbreviation in bold, dark green text with a dotted underline, hover your cursor over it to find out what it means. ;)

-Uwe-
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Confused what you mean by "slammed". Crashed or lowered?

Crash destroyed........= Slammed opp's forgot my jive and lowered/altered suspension.

would not even consider installing a used airbag control module. You don't know where it's been, what it's been through, or what "tools" have been used on it.

Ditto ......no used unit unless the unit from the car, permitted by the repair manual........ with a clean diagnostic report, and all attributes confirmed repaired.
 
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Uwe

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Crash destroyed........= Slammed opp's forgot my jive and lowered/altered suspension.
Well if active safety systems did not behave as designed in a crash, I think Audi would (or at least should) be interested in finding out why. Then again, it hasn't actually been determined that they didn't behave as designed, and there are plenty of things I think Audi "should" do, but they don't. :D

-Uwe-
 
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