Ukraine

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JMR

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Churchill did in December of 1941:
well., that was surely a Saville Row suit , no doubt Mr Churchill would t wear anything lesser than that !!
I'm hearing that no money actually changed hands; that his parents put up their $4M house as the only "surety".
That won't actually represent 10% of bond , other news says that some" family friends " helped too with the bail.
 
   #883  

JMR

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@DneprDave @PetrolDave , you seem to disagree with that particular statement..would you care to comment on it ?
What are we comparing here , apples to oranges or bananas to avocado ?
To be a politician you need to have some diplomatic skills..and Zely has absolutely NONE !

Here s Mr Churchill s career :

Here is Zelensky s :
 
   #884  

JMR

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In other news , it is deplorable to read that Germany went back to coal. It is absolutely stunning to look at the situation and see how stupid sanctions dictated agains Russia affects Europe as a whole , not only Germany. Meanwhile , Russia plans to divert more than half of their entire gas/oil production to Asia /China/India with threefold increase i production since sanctions have been applied.. So it seems to me that unless europeans come back to their senses , the following years will be a walk back in time economy /money power/standard of living wise. Perhaps it s time to think about moving towards the future in Asia , cause surely as hell Europe will lose it s luster sooner than later and be the the laughing stock of the entire world . Here you have a booming economy in Europe and all of a sudden you re on your ass because you can t stand Russia or being dictated by a foreing power what to do. Meanwhile , nearly 10 months later after being the most sanctioned country ever , Russia s doing well...Europe is not helping defeat Russia , it actually opened their eyes and i predict that with the flow of cheap energy from it , Asia/India will rise to be the new Europe/America sooner than we think..The sanctions are not diplomacy/politics , this is already lunacy on the part of whomever is responsible for the well being of Europe. I don t understand how nobody seem to care about this.
 
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   #885  

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Hi JMR
I think your analysis of economics is a little to simplistic. There are many factors at play and Russian gas and sanctions on Russia is only a few of the many influences on living standards in Europe , in Russia , in India and in China and in other places.

Apart from oil and gas exports Russias economy is relatively small in proportion to its population and it still has a very large "rural poor" under class in the regions outside of Moscow and St Petersburg. The sanctions will not afffect the rural poor to any signficant degree but they will hit the military and the elite to a much larger degree which is what is intended. Russia was not doing well before the war by most measures and is not doing well now despite the Kremlin propoganda saying otherwise. But by now they also say BS like they have destroyed the Ukrainian army three times over and it is really NATO troops that they are fighting in the special operation. But proof and accuracy has not been a strong point of the Russians for 100+ years even more so than many other governments
 
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Have look at this 1 hour lecture on the economics of the situation in a bit more detail than you get from Fox news :)

 
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PetrolDave

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Mr Churchill was a politician , Zely is a string controlled puppet, big difference !

@DneprDave @PetrolDave , you seem to disagree with that particular statement..would you care to comment on it ?
I disagree that Zelensky is a string controlled puppet - who do you think is pulling the strings? For me he is doing everything he can to maintain the independence of his country from an illegal Russian invasion, and that means making agreements with providers of military hardware but in no way does that make him a puppet of NATO or the US in my opinion.
 
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JMR

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I disagree that Zelensky is a string controlled puppet - who do you think is pulling the strings? For me he is doing everything he can to maintain the independence of his country from an illegal Russian invasion, and that means making agreements with providers of military hardware but in no way does that make him a puppet of NATO or the US in my opinion.
Mmmyeeah..they should ve thought of that when they lied at Minsk that they will implement the agreement reached there. It seems that they were not , they were just giving Ukraine time to become a bit stronger instead of seeing diplomatic ways to resolve what was at hand there ( specifically Ukraine s govt killing of innocent ppl in Donbass which no one seems to remember and it s aspirations to become what it won t ever become , a part of EU ).
 
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@JMR exactly. Former Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko and former German Chancellor Angela Merkel have both admitted that they knew Ukraine never intended to abide by the Minsk agreements; that those agreements were little more than a stalling tactic in order to buy time for Ukraine to strengthen its armed forces.

-Uwe-
 
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...former German Chancellor Angela Merkel have both admitted that they knew Ukraine never intended to abide by the Minsk agreements; that those agreements were little more than a stalling tactic in order to buy time for Ukraine to strengthen its armed forces.
Source?
 
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...make sure to keep the interview in it's context and not pick short parts and put them into a narrative that fits your views.

If you read that thoroughly, she also states that in hindsight she still sees the reasoning of the decisions back then, indicating that she would likely not make that decision with todays knowledge. She did however NOT say that it was an intent to not abide by it, instead she clearly stated that it was meant to give Ukraine time - in order to be not overrun by Russia. Yet, Russia (as history clearly shows us) just days after signing, broke the treaty by attacking Debalzewe. The signing party which actively withdrew from Minsk II was Russia and Putin was clear about that.

That said, which part of the agreement was the one you believe was broken by Ukraine? Just to be sure we're talking about the same thing.

 
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The signing party which actively withdrew from Minsk II was Russia and Putin was clear about that.
Yeah, in February of 2022, after Azov and their ilk had spent 8 years violating them, killing ~15,000 ethnic Russians in the process, all with the tacit approval of the Ukrainian government.

-Uwe-
 
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Sebastian

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Help me out Uwe. With the full context of Merkels statement, do you still feel that your above simplification is accurate? As to who broke the treaty, how do you classify the attack on Debalzewe? And last but not least, the questions towards which part of the treaty was broken exactly is also unanswered.
 
   #895  

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The generally accepted UN statistics show that in the years between the first Russian invasions of little green men in 2014 and 2022 less than 100 civilians were killed per year on both sides and most of this was due land mines. The myths of the killing of 15000 ethnic Russians by Ukraine "Nazis" is just that.... a myth of the Kremlin propaganda machine to try to justify its invasions.

I am sure there were tensions between individuals of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds in Ukraine as there is in every country on earth. I am sure that these lead to some deaths as a result. But blowing this out of proportion with propaganda and then using it to justify an invasion ......... Well thats what many condemn the USA for in Irag :)

Maybe 15000 Russian troops without insignia and LPR and DPR troops were killed in the fighting from 2014 to 2022 but that is a different story.

And if you want to talk about puppet regimes lets start with them and Belarus. The principle and basic cause of this war is that Ukraine did not want to be a puppet regime to Russia and choose to face West rather than East by throwing out a puppet regime and voting in one that would not bow to Russia.
 
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   #897  

Sebastian

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Uwe, you have been throwing such statements around for a while. Yet, when being asked for sources or to answer specific follow up questions which go deeper than just reading headlines, all I got was silence or cherry picking at best.

There have been plenty of "Azov" related statements here as well, yet again with little background information. So I did some digging and this was one of the articles I came across. It covers the subject in depth and if you happen to have conflicting arguments, I would very much like to hear them because I want to understand your point of view.

 
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mmmm... The previous president has neo-Nazi elements in the storming of the congress building in an attempt to overthrow his election loss. The front running candidate for a republican presidency at the next election dines with neo-Nazis... does that make the USA a Nazi state ?

However it appears that associations from many years ago of some people who have been pushed out of the armed forces means that all of Ukraine is a Nazi state hell bent on genocide of all ethnic Russians in its population.

The US probably has more neo-nazis in its police forces than Ukaine has in the Azov batallion but does that mean the US should "defund" all is police forces.

Just thinking out aloud here ... I need to go back and watch more of the Perun lectures to improve my education :)
 
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Look up the names in that article and compare them against the one I linked above. To me this actually confirms that this whole theme is not as black and white as some make it out to be.
Same here, there are several fact checks following that tweet. Did you read those as well? Because they do not paint such a clear picture either.
 
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