Ukraine

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Crasher

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We have this "just stop oil" nutters at it again attacking a Van Gogh painting and super gluing themselves to walls, don't they realise that superglue is partly made from crude oil, poly methyl methacrylate? I struggle to believe they really want us to stop using oil and it is just a weapon of the left as if they really believe it then they are insane, billions of people would die, modern life is only possible because of oil...
 
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Uwe

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modern life is only possible because of oil...
And natgas...

100+ years ago, civilization's prime energy source used to be coal, which is essentially 100% carbon. But coal was largely displaced by oil, which is only ~60% carbon. In recent decades, natgas has begun displacing oil, and is only ~30% carbon.

What should have happened starting ~50 years ago is a transition to nuclear as a primary energy source, but somehow the nutters scared people out of it, despite the fact that it's by far the cleanest & safest form of energy available.

Some of the nutters you refer to admit they don't want humanity to thrive. They won't be satisfied until humanity is reduced well under 1 billion in number with a standard of living somewhere between hunter-gatherer and subsistence farmer.

-Uwe-
 
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JMR

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I don't think anyone in Europe will want or even need to buy Russian gas from anywhere by the time any Turkish connection is built.

So I don't think anyone will want to put their money into it if they haves any sense so it is very unlikely to proceed and it's a political game for consumption by the Russian people that Putin is trying to appease and similarly by Erdogan
Why would you not buy the cheapest form of enery available ? Just because you think that coal and nuclear power will suffice ? Nop ! Do you think green energy will suffice ? Nope ! The cheapest form of energy is Russian gas , they have plenty , they sell it cheap , entire economies were built around it. There is no if /buts about it. Plain and simple truth. And oh..they will build that gas pipe pretty fast...:) . and lets think about it , russia supplied europe with gas for years without invading , blackmailing or anything in EU. So...they had personal business with Ukraine..they are resolving it ;)
 
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You just can t make this shit up : EU countries now want their payments on arms supplied to Ukraine and there is not nearly enough LOL. I thought the arms and missiles and whathave you were donated for the *democracy of Ukraine ". NOOOOOO ! I am just waiting for US's bill to whoever has to pay it ! So far it s in the upper tens of billion dollars i think :) When i said that war is business people contradicted me. When i said that EU s involvement in this shit is bad...few people agreed with me. Now to those who didn t agree...eat your heart out ! War is business ! Now one begs to wonder where this money will be coming from ??
Here s proof :
 
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Yes stopping imperialistic dictators is not cheap. But it is small change compared to all the other money handed out in the EU budget each year of about $150 billion.

Polands net benefit from its EU membership is about $15 billion per year so it weapons donations are again small change compared to this.
 
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Well then, shame on Poland for wanting money for the arms supplied ! Shame on them !! You agree ?
In other news , Angela Merkel said :
*
Germany’s former chancellor, Angela Merkel, has said she does not regret her decision to sign natural gas deals with Russia during her 16 years in power, arguing that Moscow has long been a “reliable energy supplier” and offers lower prices than its competitors.

Speaking to reporters at an event in Lisbon, Merkel explained that Germany has long sought to move away from coal as an energy source, and that Russian natural gas was the best available option as Berlin aimed to eventually “arrive at CO2-free forms of energy.”

“From the perspective of that time, it was very rational and understandable to obtain pipeline-bound gas from Russia, which was cheaper than LNG [liquefied natural gas] from other parts of the world,”
she said on Thursday, adding that “Even during the Cold War, Russia was a reliable energy supplier.”*
 
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she said on Thursday, adding that “Even during the Cold War, Russia was a reliable energy supplier.”*
That's true, and I'm sure they would still be a reliable energy supplier right now if Germany hadn't gone on what amounts to a buyer's strike this spring.

Now was it wise of Germany to become so dependent on Russian-supplied energy? No, of course not. Was it wise of Germany to abandon nuclear power? No, of course not. Of course it wasn't wise of the USA to become utterly dependent on China for all sorts of critical products either, so....

-Uwe-
 
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So it s safe to say that overindustrialization and cheapness is the root of of all evil :)
 
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The fact that irritates me is these stop fossil fuel etc twats are the descendants of the tossers who said nein danke to nuclear up until a few years ago when they changed tack because it suited their purposes. I am extremely sceptical that these people really believe in what they are doing and it is not just an excuse for something else such a s getting their fissog on social megia. There is a story in the paper today about a 60+ grandmother going around letting the tyres down on SUV’s because they are too big, it transpires that she only sold hers recently. What idiots like this don’t realise is the Valhalla of electric cars means ones with a useable range able to carry a family a decent distance HAVE to be big to accommodate the battery.

As an interesting aside, when I typed in megia on my iPad to take the piss out of the media, Google auto corrected it to Meghan… a reMarkleable thing.
 
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Oh..so they do want it :) This here could be a game changer !! Waiting for US s reaction to this...
News:
** Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan announced on Wednesday that he had accepted the proposal of his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, to create an international natural gas hub in Türkiye.**
 
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That's true, and I'm sure they would still be a reliable energy supplier right now if Germany hadn't gone on what amounts to a buyer's strike this spring.

Germany has not started a buyer's strike. The one-sided reduction by Russia has forced Germany (and Europe) to look for alternative sources, which we have and our reserves are fuller than they used to be over the last years where Russia was our biggest (but still only 30%) source of natural gas. As I mentioned before, I believe you lack crucial information/understanding of the German/European gas market and distribution network. Thus your opinion is lacking the complexity of the situation.

Now was it wise of Germany to become so dependent on Russian-supplied energy? No, of course not.
A result of right leaning party politics, similar to what your GOP does in the US. Centralization and monopolies is what they prefer.
Was it wise of Germany to abandon nuclear power? No, of course not.
It was, because the nuclear power question has nothing to do with heat. We have enough electric energy, what we lack is means to quickly buffer and regulate the power network. As you well know, a NPP cannot by definition perform that action. Gas and other PPs have always addressed that. The German NPP shutdown, already results in heavy decentralized installation of renewables, which makes us independent from other sources of energy, including LNG from the US/CAN.
 
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Germany has not started a buyer's strike. The one-sided reduction by Russia has forced Germany (and Europe) to look for alternative sources, which we have and our reserves are fuller than they used to be over the last years where Russia was our biggest (but still only 30%) source of natural gas. As I mentioned before, I believe you lack crucial information/understanding of the German/European gas market and distribution network. Thus your opinion is lacking the complexity of the situation.


A result of right leaning party politics, similar to what your GOP does in the US. Centralization and monopolies is what they prefer.

It was, because the nuclear power question has nothing to do with heat. We have enough electric energy, what we lack is means to quickly buffer and regulate the power network. As you well know, a NPP cannot by definition perform that action. Gas and other PPs have always addressed that. The German NPP shutdown, already results in heavy decentralized installation of renewables, which makes us independent from other sources of energy, including LNG from the US/CAN.
So either way you cut it and slice it , Germany /Europe does need a reliable and constant supplierr of some form of energy for it s heathing needs , be it in the form of electrical or natural resources. I don t recall seeing anywhere in the news that Russia cut it s output of natural gas to Germany on purpose
 
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I don t recall seeing anywhere in the news that Russia cut it s output of natural gas to Germany on purpose
My understanding is that Russia cut the gas supplies in retaliation for the sanctions that Germany (and most other countries) imposed on Russia for their illegal war in Ukraine. Those sanctions included reducing the demand for Russian gas, so it seems to me that the Russians (aka Putin) decided that rather than just reducing their demand for Russian gas they would need to cope with no Russian gas.
 
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Interesting..i thought that because of the sanctions ..EU as a whole reduced their need for Putin s gas and increased their need from american supplied sources....not the other way around. Putin would've not cut the gas to Europe as that was a nice income stream needed in these trying times. Now to blame Putin because EU itself waned off the russian supply..it s not fair .. But hey , look at the bright side..EU would be able to get turkish supplied gas without stepping on sanctions ..so there is a loophole :). I never understood the concept of being independent from Russian resources. And subtitute to what resources then ? It s like telling a lion hey, you need less antelope in your menu and you need to orient yourself towards a grass diet..That s just not ok. All countries are more or less dependent on each other...
 
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Now to blame Putin because EU itself waned off the russian supply..it s not fair :)
The EU reduced their gas demand from Russia, Putin 'got the hump' and cut the gas supply - that's Putin throwing his toys out of the pram in my book.
 
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More news :

**
The extensive assistance provided by Washington to Ukraine amid its conflict with Russia may be cut if the Republican Party takes control of Congress in the midterm elections on November 8, Axios has reported.

Even the harshest critics of Vladimir Putin among the Republicans now acknowledge that there’s been a “noticeable shift away from what was once a broad bipartisan consensus” on providing aid to Kiev, the outlet reported on Wednesday.

It cited House minority leader Kevin McCarthy, who told Punchbowl News earlier this week: “I think people are gonna be sitting in a recession and they’re not going to write a blank check to Ukraine. They just won’t do it.” Ukraine might be important, but it can’t be the only thing on the agenda of the US administration, he insisted.***

Perhaps this madness comes to an end rather sooner than later... :popcorn:
 
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JMR

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The EU reduced their gas demand from Russia, Putin 'got the hump' and cut the gas supply - that's Putin throwing his toys out of the pram in my book.
And for no good reason whatsoever , having cheap gas and some good economic times , Europe decided that it doesn t need russian gas !!. No , the train thought behind this stupid move was that because of the inposed sanctions Putin will give up. So they threw the sanctions at him , then they threw more sanctions..then they thought that if they "blackmail" Putin with a reduced need for gas they will somehow force him to do their bidding. So far..they are SOL it seems.. Putin said " the fuck with it if you don t want it all , they you won t have any " . And Europe s ass hole now is exposed to the biggest penis in the world...isn t it ? Wait..i hope US puts a bit of vaseline on it before sticking it to ol" Europe :)
 
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The UK would not have a potential gas shortage (although it would not necessarily reduce user costs) if successive governments (latterly Conservative or Conservative/Liberal coalition) had not bowed to pressure from a tiny minority of noisy shouty heads screaming about Global Warming. Shifting the source of our energy (be it gas from Europe or wood pellets from Canada) reduced our CO2 figures by fudging the paperwork and the shouty mouthy eco nutters still scream about stopping oi.
 
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As was said above this discussion is being carried out by people who understand little about natural gas supply and demand in Europe and the role Russia has played in that.

In simple terms Putin got pissed off when Nordstream 2 was abandoned by the Germans. He then started limiting supplies via other pipelines based on numerous lies about breakdowns. Then he finally shut off the supply and blew up the pipeline in the final stage of his blackmail campaign

The reality is Putin can build a natural gas hub in Turkey but he needs customers and I doubt anyone in Western Europe / EU will expose themselves again to economic war / blackmail from Russia
 
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