Resolved Electronic Parking Brake - Electrical Failure (C10E2 01)

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   #41  

RobCli

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Hey all!

Just posting to see if there was any update. I have a similar situation going on over at this post :2 Faults on Control Module for Electronic Parking Brake

Did you ever get your Treg fixed?
Hi, had another guy in the US with same fault, who eventually had VW perform the repair - it was a right hand rear EPB actuator at a repair cost of USD$1,133: $639 labour, $422 parts, $39 misc parts, $33 tax.
Part # for RH: 7P0-609-724-B

I have tried 2 other EPB modules and these have not fixed my fault.
Got motivated today and checked my actuators - unplugging actuator and connecting 12V. It appears my rear right hand actuator is also faulty as there was no kicking in of the actuator when power applied. LH actuator could be heard kicking in when connected.
Based on these experiences I would definitely have VW or an auto elec check your actuators before doing an EPB module replace.
I have ordered a 2nd hand RH actuator and will let you know how this goes ... I'll be reading up a lot more before going ahead with swapping this out because of the calibration that will be required.
 
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Lp_32

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Hi, had another guy in the US with same fault, who eventually had VW perform the repair - it was a right hand rear EPB actuator at a repair cost of USD$1,133: $639 labour, $422 parts, $39 misc parts, $33 tax.
Part # for RH: 7P0-609-724-B

I have tried 2 other EPB modules and these have not fixed my fault.
Got motivated today and checked my actuators - unplugging actuator and connecting 12V. It appears my rear right hand actuator is also faulty as there was no kicking in of the actuator when power applied. LH actuator could be heard kicking in when connected.
Based on these experiences I would definitely have VW or an auto elec check your actuators before doing an EPB module replace.
I have ordered a 2nd hand RH actuator and will let you know how this goes ... I'll be reading up a lot more before going ahead with swapping this out because of the calibration that will be required.

Yeah, that price sounds about right. I bet they charge 4 hours of labor to do it all. Not too bad seeing as they have to re-rig/re-program and do the grind in.

Over on my thread, they noticed that there might not be any protection from the EPB actuators to the control module. So if there is a short in an actuator, it could damage the H-Bridge in the module and show the fault that we are both having.
If that is the case, that would imply that every time you threw a new module at your car, you fried the H-bridge because of your right actuator.....wild.

What power source did you use to put 12 volts to the actuator?
 
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   #43  

stefdds

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Over on my thread, they noticed that there might not be any protection from the EPB actuators to the control module. So if there is a short in an actuator, it could damage the H-Bridge in the module and show the fault that we are both having.

If that is the case, that would imply that every time you threw a new module at your car, you fried the H-bridge because of your right actuator.....wild.
:eek: Informative!
 
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Uwe

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If that is the case, that would imply that every time you threw a new module at your car, you fried the H-bridge because of your right actuator.....wild.
I suppose it's also possible that it doesn't actually fry the H-bridge, but that the module simply interprets a bad actuator as a fault in the H-Bridge. Either way, it's a bad design, either in the hardware (if the H-bridge is indeed fried) or in the software (if the module is incorrectly interpreting a bad actuator as a failed H-bridge).

-Uwe-
 
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I suppose it's also possible that it doesn't actually fry the H-bridge, but that the module simply interprets a bad actuator as a fault in the H-Bridge. Either way, it's a bad design, either in the hardware (if the H-bridge is indeed fried) or in the software (if the module is incorrectly interpreting a bad actuator as a failed H-bridge).

-Uwe-
That’s crazy. I found a set of new actuators for ~$500 from FCP. I don’t want to play around with this problem for a few months. It’s probably just worth changing it all out and be done with it!

I wish I had the time/resources to really dive into it. At least changing the module and both actuators will solve the issue, or there’s a high likely hood that it will. Assuming the wiring is good.
 
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I just used a small 12V battery charger. There was no 'spark' when connecting to the dead actuator, so here's hoping it's not shorted out and has not fried EPB module/s.
Have you checked continuity (lack of hopefully?) between both pins of the actuator and the body of the actuator (i.e. chassis)?

Since it's driven by an H-bridge both terminals will be live at some point so neither should be connected to chassis.
 
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I just used a small 12V battery charger. There was no 'spark' when connecting to the dead actuator, so here's hoping it's not shorted out and has not fried EPB module/s.

Are you expecting to have to run a grind-in procedure after replacing actuators, or would this work: https://www.clubtouareg.com/threads...eplacement-on-touareg-7p.295009/#post-2122315
i.e. back off 13-16 notches
I saw that post, i think it will come in handy for sure! I want to do one more day of troubleshooting before i pull the trigger on both actuators. If i can for sure narrow it down to one, i will give that try and save myself $250!

What pins did you connect the 12 volt source too? I see four pins. I have checked them all for continuity to the body, as @PetrolDave said, and it seems like they have not shorted to the body or chassis. Thanks for that suggestion Dave!
 
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What pins did you connect the 12 volt source too
Based on the gauge of the connecting wires, I connected to the outer pins. These worked for activating the LH actuator, including reversing polarity.
It will be a couple of days before I can do the short test as suggested by Dave.
 
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Got motivated today and checked my actuators - unplugging actuator and connecting 12V. It appears my rear right hand actuator is also faulty as there was no kicking in of the actuator when power applied. LH actuator could be heard kicking in when connected.
Based on these experiences I would definitely have VW or an auto elec check your actuators before doing an EPB module replace.
I have ordered a 2nd hand RH actuator and will let you know how this goes ... I'll be reading up a lot more before going ahead with swapping this out because of the calibration that will be required.
Well, Looks like you're onto something! I have the exact opposite issue, LH doesn’t move at all regardless of polarity, and RH does! For anyone following this thread in the future, i used These 30ft test leads and hooked it up the battery lugs under the hood, and clipped the negative side to either outside terminal post on the EPB actuator, then touched the other outside post with the positive. The RH side worked great with both polarities. the LH side didn't make a noise at all.

I ordered both side EPB actuators the other day. When they come in ill change the LH first to see if the code clears. Then ill change the RH. I will post updates as soon as they installed.
 
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   #52  

RobCli

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Parking Brake fixed :-)

Replaced right hand parking brake actuator, refitted original EPB module, and all errors are gone.
As I had rear brake pads sitting there from 18months ago, also decided to do these while wheels were off.

I checked air-gap measurements once repaired and have the following:
Air gap before calibration-Left 2.556mm
Air gap before calibration-Right 2.904mm
Air gap-Left 2.213mm
Air gap-Right 2.213mm
Electro-mech parking brake: position of parking brake motors-Left 4.040mm
Electro-mech parking brake: position of parking brake motors-Right 4.947mm

Would the experts on the forum be able to advise if there is a process I could follow to validate the air-gap measurement?
 
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Thats awesome man! I'm glad that we could get it figured out. Sounds like this should solve my problem as well!

FedEx delayed my shipping. Got my parts Monday. Hurt my shoulder Tuesday. So I'm nursing it up before changing it out! Ill update it as soon as I can manage to lift anything!
 
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Would the experts on the forum be able to advise if there is a process I could follow to validate the air-gap measurement?
Nice! I'm not an expert but we've walked a lot of guys through this. Your numbers look good and the coding is likely sticking (instead of reverting to zeros and flagging a list of DTCs) but it couldn't hurt to force those numbers to refresh.

You can do so via Basic Settings [*IDE04509*] Air gap calibration. If that group will not run please see the Ceramic brake coding tip here.

If you do that be prepared to see the numbers go out of specification. If they do, you may find yourself readjusting the mechanical adjusters yet again ... but better to find out now rather than a few months from now.
 
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Nice! I'm not an expert but we've walked a lot of guys through this. Your numbers look good and the coding is likely sticking (instead of reverting to zeros and flagging a list of DTCs) but it couldn't hurt to force those numbers to refresh.

You can do so via Basic Settings [*IDE04509*] Air gap calibration. If that group will not run please see the Ceramic brake coding tip here.

If you do that be prepared to see the numbers go out of specification. If they do, you may find yourself readjusting the mechanical adjusters yet again ... but better to find out now rather than a few months from now.
thanks Dana, I never actually performed any adjustment and hence queried the readings. Your info will be good to force a calibration. Re using the mechanical adjusters, does this mean I can avoid doing a grind-in procedure?
 
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Re using the mechanical adjusters, does this mean I can avoid doing a grind-in procedure?
Probably. That grind-in procedure should only be needed with new EPB shoes and new rotors (since the drum mating surface is entirely new) because they won't be mated/seated.

In our (support) experience most customers that have EPB problems:
1) Have only rotated tires and knocked baby shoe dust out in the process of hammering the lug bolts. All EPB hell breaks loose which is beyond frustrating late on a Friday.
2) Simply turned the EPB on / off via the switch in the car while doing a DPF regen or similar. Those poor guys didn't even hoist the vehicle or touch a lug bolt!
3) Replaced rear brake pads only. Rotors weren't removed ... but the precious baby shoe dust was lost resulting in the controller detecting the "new" Air-Gap.
4) Replaced rear brake pads only BUT decided to go in with a scan tool of some sort and press buttons like this was a normal caliper based EPB VW/AU model. In those cases self induced fail.

I'm sure there are a number of other ways that 7P T'reg EPB can ruin your day but that's our greatest hit list :). In every one of those cases I don't like directing someone to the grind-In. That's an abusive process in my opinion.

I spent several years in the independent field prior to the dealer and loads of domestic SUV and trucks used this system with a pair of cables and mechanical levers. Hell, the prior Q7 and T'reg used that setup before this silly EPB setup and we NEVER pulled out after a new brake job and rode the EPB pedal/handle at speed driving down the road! Those shoes are not intended to drag/stop the vehicle under normal (non-emergency) situations. As long as it held the vehicle in both directions under a good accelerator load test, and it did so when the pedal or handle was only operated a few clicks, that was a job well done when the cables and mechanical parts were confirmed to be functioning properly during the work.​

Instances where that grind-in is a good idea is when the shoes, rotors and/or motors were replaced. Although slightly overkill in my opinion with new rotors only ... if the grind-in was performed and the air-gaps were still in specification after doing so that system should be confirmed capable of stopping (or at least slowing) this SUV in the event of hydraulic brake failure.
 
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I don't like directing someone to the grind-In. That's an abusive process in my opinion.
I'm not sure how abusive it really is. We ran it what, at least 3 or 4 times on the (then) almost brand-new T'reg back in 2015 while developing the procedure for it. That was now ~60,000 miles ago and the vehicle seems none the worse for the wear.

-Uwe-
 
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but better to find out now rather than a few months from now.
Hi Dana, thanks for the detailed information.

Driving on the weekend I really enjoyed having cruise control back, AND no continuous parking brake error lights flashing, so will likely leave it as is the moment and have a go at triggering the output test in a few weeks :-)
 
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I'm not sure how abusive it really is.
I haven't personally removed and inspected rotors and EPB shoes immediately after repairs with new parts followed by a grind-in but a number of shops have commented on the smell followed by the amount of EPB shoe brake dust and drum surface hot spotting found after tearing it back down and calling us. I suppose it is entirely possible that all of those guys had insufficient air-gaps resulting in the grind-in process being performed in a way that was not intended however VW didn't make it easy when the values aren't refreshing unless you know to code the controller incorrectly and run Basic Settings (since the EPB doesn't work via the switch and it won't refresh naturally).

I'm not a fan of the horrible noises and 650 foot brake dragging if it can be avoided but in regards to your vehicle I agree. The shoes and drum surface looked perfectly normal when we took it apart a year later but those were factory equipped parts in good working condition (no DTCs, no lost coding, in specification air-gaps) rather than a malfunctioning system.


Driving on the weekend I really enjoyed having cruise control back, AND no continuous parking brake error lights flashing, so will likely leave it as is the moment and have a go at triggering the output test in a few weeks :-)

Yeah! As long as the EPB holds the vehicle on a steep grade I would take time to enjoy the drama-free operation!
 
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Well, I have fixed my issue as well! I have a write up to make once I have time to sit down and make it. I wish it was as easy as yours. Changing the left actuator did the trick! But, i was immediately followed by 4 hours of trying to recode the "new" module. Once i threw the original module in, it was STILL giving me faults, but not like before. I could get the actuators to move now, but i couldn't clear any faults. I had to do the grind in process for it to all work.

I will make a more extensive post once i have a chance. BUT the issue is fixed. It all came down to that faulty left actuator and NOT the controller.

Im glad that we could work together to make it all work. People in the future will be happy to have something to follow!
 
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