2011 VW Polo 1.6 TDI CAYB Injectors/EGR issues

   #1  

kcd

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Location
Belgium
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=494354
Hi All,

driving a VW Polo 2011 1.6 TDI CAYB, stock conditions, 9972 ECU software, having injector issues for the 3rd time. Had a glow plug and check engine for a few times (not always). Since the injector issues keep coming, I wanted to know more about it and finally purchased a VCDS HEX-V2. Previous 2 injectors were replaced by reconditioned.

Autoscan below, apparently also the EGR valve has a malfunction.

About the injectors. Injector 3 and 4 were replaced 10k km ago, now injector 1 seems to have failed. One time the injector stopped with engine running on 3 cylinders. I sometimes notice a difficult start with longer cranking than usual.
I read different failure modes are described on the internet (electrical, clogged, leaking). I checked the resistance between the 2 pins, still 200 kOhms for all 4 injectors, capcity of the piezo stack is around 2.8 µF for all 4 injectors. Can I exclude electrical failure if the fault is intermittent and I have 200 kOhms? No megger available for checking the insulation resistance. Can I derive something from the "Injection valve 1: voltage-V_INJ_MAIN[0]: 45.61 V"?
Only using on premium diesel, but could it be contamination? Could I find out more what could be the reason? In case of a clogged injector maybe a Liqui Moly diesel purge could help?
I did a check on the injector deviation (cold engine, idling). Is it true that the spec for deviation is max. +/- 2.8 mg/stroke? I notice the other injectors (even the replaced ones no. 3 and 4) have higher deviations than the faulty injector 1...

Code:
18:18:14
  IDE00365-ENG99400   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 1-FAC_CYL_BAL1 -0.5034 mg/stroke
  IDE00366-ENG101187   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 2-FAC_CYL_BAL2 -1.3786 mg/stroke
  IDE00367-ENG101684   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 3-FAC_CYL_BAL3 1.2596 mg/stroke
  IDE00368-ENG103465   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 4-FAC_CYL_BAL4 0.6356 mg/stroke
 
18:20:56
  IDE00365-ENG99400   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 1-FAC_CYL_BAL1 -0.5788 mg/stroke
  IDE00366-ENG101187   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 2-FAC_CYL_BAL2 -1.3570 mg/stroke
  IDE00367-ENG101684   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 3-FAC_CYL_BAL3 0.9245 mg/stroke
  IDE00368-ENG103465   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 4-FAC_CYL_BAL4 1.2753 mg/stroke

About the EGR valve malfunction. Any means to find out more details about the malfunction (clogged, seized motor or something else? I guess a sensor fault will give a different code, as well as clogged would give P0401 - Insufficient Flow). Would an immedate replacement be required or could a enthusiastic drive on the highway clean up some of the gunk inside, any recommendations? Are there any tests (Basic settings or Output Test?) available before replacement?

I also notice the 2nd Readiness bit is 1, is this related to the EGR?

No idea what to think about the other error code related to voltage adress 09 and 17 (date or mileage seems incorrect btw).


Any comments are feedback are well appreciate!

Autoscan:

Code:
Sunday,19,September,2021,13:19:00:06492
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 21.9.0.2 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4555.4
Data version: 20210903 DS330.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWZZZ6RZBYxxxxxx   License Plate:
Mileage: 79630km-49479mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 6R-VW25 (6R0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 17 19 25 44 56 61

VIN: WVWZZZ6RZBYxxxxxx   Mileage: 79630km-49479miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
61-Battery Regul. -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CAYB)       Labels:. 03L-906-023-CAY.clb
   Part No SW: 03L 906 023 EP    HW: 03L 906 023 D
   Component: 1,6l R4 CR td H13 9972 
   Revision: --H13---    Serial number:                CVN: 355EDC8C
   Coding: 00114016000401080000
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM16TDI02103L906023EP 003009
   ROD: EV_ECM16TDI02103L906023EP_003.rod
   VCID: 78A8EBFBB252DE0B9F1-802C
   VINID: 9E69EAAAA1A2A92A411041C4000939CF26

3 Faults Found:
7462 - EGR Valve (N18)
          P0403 00 [104] - Malfunction
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 6
                    Mileage: 79603 km
                    Date: 2021.08.17
                    Time: 07:29:57

                    Engine RPM: 1617.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 17.3 %
                    Vehicle speed: 27 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 29 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 18 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.424 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Accelerator position: normalized-Accelerator position: 0.00 %
                    EGR Vacuum Regulator Solen.val.: activation-ANG_SP_EGRV[0]: 84.253 %
                    EGR Solen.val.: actual value-ANG_EGRV[0]: 4.138 %
                    Air mass: actual value (mg/stroke)-MAF_MES: 396.618 mg/stroke
                    Sensor for engine block temperature: raw value-Coolant temperature: 50 °C

7461 - EGR Valve (N18)
          P0403 00 [104] - Malfunction
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Mileage: 79599 km
                    Date: 2021.07.29
                    Time: 13:51:51

                    Engine RPM: 1800.75 /min
                    Normed load value: 2.7 %
                    Vehicle speed: 30 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 70 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 26 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.988 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 37
                    Accelerator position: normalized-Accelerator position: 16.02 %
                    EGR Vacuum Regulator Solen.val.: activation-ANG_SP_EGRV[0]: 40.114 %
                    EGR Solen.val.: actual value-ANG_EGRV[0]: 67.480 %
                    Air mass: actual value (mg/stroke)-MAF_MES: 112.714 mg/stroke
                    Sensor for engine block temperature: raw value-Coolant temperature: 77 °C

9837 - Injector: Cylinder 1 (N30)
          P0201 00 [096] - Circuit Malfunction
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 79624 km
                    Date: 2021.08.30
                    Time: 13:33:43

                    Engine RPM: 2747.75 /min
                    Normed load value: 32.9 %
                    Vehicle speed: 45 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 84 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 32 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.988 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 39
                    Error information regarding selected piezo output stage-LF_STATE_PPS_SPI[0]: 0
                    Injector valve 1: capacity-CAPA_INJ_MAIN[0]: 31.6816 µF
                    Voltage load of main injection cylinder 1-CHR_INJ_MAIN[0]: 1444.9 µAs
                    Measured energy of main injection cylinder 1-EGY_INJ_MAIN[0]: 32.945 mJ
                    Supply voltage of analog output 1-VCC_1: 5.00 V
                    Supply voltage of analog output 2-VCC_2: 4.99 V
                    Injection valve 1: voltage-V_INJ_MAIN[0]: 45.61 V

Readiness: 0100 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 6R0-907-37x-ESP82.clb
   Part No SW: 6R0 907 379 AJ    HW: 6R0 907 379 AF
   Component: ESP8.2i front H05 0001 
   Revision: --------   
   Coding: 210228E3417100B6842C14E682D100521100
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   VCID: 06549503C866B8FB9DD-8052

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J301)       Labels: 6R0-820-045-9AB.clb
   Part No SW: 6R0 820 045 F    HW: 6R0 820 045 F
   Component: Man AC         02 0101 
   Revision: 0002S 02   
   VCID: 313E16DF1128CF4318F-8064

1 Fault Found:
00819 - High Pressure Sensor (G65)
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 27
                    Reset counter: 223
                    Mileage: 78313 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2011.02.22
                    Time: 10:42:59


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 6R0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 6R0 937 088 F    HW: 6R0 937 088
   Component: BCM PQ25 Re4  H46 0355 
   Revision: BU046001    Serial number: 0379 269100365
   Coding: 24B02BBF08A10000003009F02D2B0CD0DF00612F7E060449A00000000000
   Shop #: WSC 22131 002 1048576
   VCID: 41DE461FA1885FC3E8F-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 801 R    HW: 6R0 959 801 R  Labels: 6R0-959-801.CLB
   Component: J386__TSG_FT  006 0903
   Serial number: KU0-KU006.10.1015690
   Coding: 58BC30

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 802 T    HW: 6R0 959 802 T  Labels: 6R0-959-802.CLB
   Component: J387__TSG_BT  006 0902
   Serial number: KU0-KU007.10.1012910
   Coding: 48BC30

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 811 F    HW: 6R0 959 811 F
   Component: J388__TSG_HL  006 0902
   Serial number: KU0-KU018.10.1011131
   Coding: 48BC32

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 812 F    HW: 6R0 959 812 F
   Component: J389__TSG_HR  006 0902
   Serial number: KU0-KU013.10.1014809
   Coding: 48BC32

2 Faults Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
            001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 7
                    Mileage: 79590 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.07.07
                    Time: 11:51:22

00447 - Function Limitation due to Over-Voltage
            001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 6
                    Reset counter: 11
                    Mileage: 79497 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.04.28
                    Time: 09:09:53


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 6R0 959 655 K    HW: 6R0 959 655 K
   Component: VW10Airbag01M H09 0020 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 003GX009RVYO
   Coding: 00314D
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVW250 A01001
   ROD: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVW250.rod
   VCID: 4ACC61339C3E9C9B395-801E

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side:
   Serial number: 3575HRB405907A9Q8HJH

   Front Passenger's Side Airbag Crash Sensor:
   Serial number: 3585HRB405907A9Q61J0

   Rear Side Airbag Crash Sensor (on driver's side):
   Serial number: 3515RRB404P04QLUA8JF

   Passenger side rear thorax airbag crash sensor:
   Serial number: 3525RRB405P04QLU8G26

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
   Part No SW: 6R0 920 861 E    HW: 6R0 920 861 E
   Component: KOMBI         H04 0304 
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 140200
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04086
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW25.rod
   VCID: 372A28C7FFCC117356B-8062

1 Fault Found:
13893888 - Function Restricted due to Excessive Voltage
          U1401 00 [008] - -
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 12
                    Mileage: 79631 km
                    Date: 2021.09.19
                    Time: 12:08:02


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 6R0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 6R0 907 530 C    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533  Gateway H38 0025 
   Revision:   H38       Serial number: 301010F2000798
   Coding: 2500C2
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 33321CD7EB34FD536A3-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234
   Component: IMMO          H04 0304 
   Serial number:               
   Coding: 000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03008
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW21.rod
   VCID: 6A8CC1B3FCFE7C9B195-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 6Q0-423-156.clb
   Part No: 6R0 423 156 B
   Component: LenkhilfeTRW        V277 
   Coding: 11230
   Shop #: WSC 00788 
   VCID: 2F3A10A70E5CD9B30EB-807A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 5M0 035 156 C    HW: 5M0 035 156 C
   Component: Radio         H30 0072 
   Revision: R0000000    Serial number: VWZAZ1K0532087
   Coding: 0000020002
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   VCID: 290EFEBF39F8B783D0F-807C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840)       Labels:. 1K0-907-534.clb
   Part No SW: 6R0 907 534     HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: Batt.regelung H38 0025 
   Serial number: 301010F2000798
   Coding: 030B1A5A
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 74B0DFCBAEBABA6BB39-8020

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 6R0 915 181 B    HW: 6R0 915 181
   Component: J367-BDM  H07 0150
   Serial number: 00000000009370163018

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:06, VBatt start/end: 12.3V/12.3V)-----------
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
   #2  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
34,881
Reaction score
24,807
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
Hi and welcome. I'm not familiar enough with that engine to offer any specific advice, but hopefully someone else will.

-Uwe-
 
  • Like
Reactions: kcd
   #3  

kcd

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Location
Belgium
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=494354
Hi and welcome. I'm not familiar enough with that engine to offer any specific advice, but hopefully someone else will.

-Uwe-
Thanks Uwe. I'm impressed by the functionalities of the VCDS tool, should have had it much earlier.
 
   #4  

iichel

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
2,530
Reaction score
2,974
Location
Eindhoven, NB, NL
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=284912
Regarding the injectors, I'm unsure what to advise. The EGR is very likely in need of a replacement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kcd
   #5  

IanC

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Location
Bristol, UK
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=443988
When you had the injectors replaced did they run any injector balancing routine? There is an ECU routine which can be run to adjust the fuel balance between injectors - search IDE06141 on this forum or on YouTube. This is supposed to balance the injectors but for older SW version is may not run - your SW is 9972 which should work (mine is 9050 and it doesn't). After the routine runs successfully the injector balance should be within +/- 0.3mg/stroke of each other. If you do try this make sure you watch the YouTube clips as the routine requires a security access key and specific instructions to get it to commence properly - this one shows the correct sequence
. Once initiated correctly the routine is automatic with the engine RPM stepping between different values for about 5-10mins, make sure the engine is hot before you start (80C) as this may delay the start and will slow the process down.

If your car has only done ~50k miles in 10 years I guess you do short trips? If so, your EGR and DPF are likely to become clogged. There is a DPF regeneration mode which can be run using VCDS if the measured soot level is high >20g. I did this just this morning using the 'regenerate DPF whilst driving' routine but it does take a 30 min drive - again check YouTube. The EGR on these cars is a pig to get to as it is on the rear of the engine so impossible to remove and clean directly - labour costs are high to replace :(.

If you do try the injector balancing routine a few on this forum would be interested if it works or just hangs (like with me!).

Good luck
 
  • Like
Reactions: kcd
   #6  

kcd

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Location
Belgium
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=494354
thanks IanC for your valuable reply :thumbs:. I've read about the balancing routing on the net, it might somethinmes even result in worse results for deviation balance or engine noise, so I think this might serve as a last resort after injector replacement.
I'm wondering what different aspects are triggering a ECU to decide to stop working the injector:

- electrical failure of the injector: definitely. I case of a reduced resistance of the injector below 180 kOhms. For sure a safe measure to protect the ECU itself. I still have 200 kOhms though.
- leaking or clogged injector, resulting in a deviation between injectors going too high, resulting in a unbalance situation. I've read numbers of +/- 2.8 mg/stroke, which I'm still below.
- clogged or leaked injectors can also result in injector timing issues. I've read numbers of 45 and 15 µs as limits here (+ and -). Not 100% sure, I'll have to dig deeper into this.
- other reasons why the ECU might stop steering the injector and going to limp mode? Anyone has more info or technical note on this?:confused:

Besides this, I'm questioning whether the ECU isn't constantly updating the injector settings in order to minimize the deviation, so the balancing routing would only speed up this. (I even read about guys not even coding the injectors and counting on this to balance the injectors :eek:)

Regarding the DPF, I found following measuring blocks:
Code:
IDE00432-ENG103847   Particle filter: time since last regeneration-T_WOUT_RGN 12887.40 s
  IDE00433-ENG103279   Particle filter: oil ash volume-MASS_ASH_PF 14.1215161 g
  IDE00434-ENG102050   Particle filter: soot mass calculated-MASS_SOOT_SIM_PF 10.44 g
  IDE00435-ENG101197   Particle filter: soot mass measured-MASS_SOOT_PHY_PF 2.16 g
  IDE00436-ENG102397   Particle filter: kilometers since last regeneration-DIST_RGN 76.9 km
  IDE01407-ENG100958   Particle filter: fuel consumption since last regeneration-FCO_SUM_RGN 4.89 l

10g of soot mass should still be fine (I think regen starts at 40 g?)

best
k
 
   #7  

kcd

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Location
Belgium
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=494354
Regarding the injectors, I'm unsure what to advise. The EGR is very likely in need of a replacement.
Would cleaning be an option? Taking it out looks indeed a painful job, and a genuine VW EGR valve+cooler comes at a parts cost of EUR400 ...
 
   #8  

iichel

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
2,530
Reaction score
2,974
Location
Eindhoven, NB, NL
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=284912
I'm not sure if cleaning helps. An option is to try but you could end up taking it off again.

Egr on this engine is dramatic really. A friend of mine is selling these egr emulators and they sell like warm breads and have done so ever since these engines came into play.
 
   #9  

IanC

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Location
Bristol, UK
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=443988
As an experiment I tried loading different injector codes into injector 2 (the one I replaced) - these made absolutely no difference to the measured imbalance, so I'm suspicious that these codes do anything at all and it is the learning cycle that does all the work in balancing. I've driven my car for quite a while now but my balance hasn't changed either so I've hit a dead end.
Does anyone know what the injector deviation numbers actually measure? VCDS also has a 'mean injector quantity' which for me is about 6mg/stroke, so having deviations of -1.5,+2, -1, 0.5 would indicate that cylinder 2 has 8mg/str and another is 4.5mg/str - wouldn't this cause a huge power imbalance and lead to engine shake (my engine cover shakes quiet dramatically!).
I had EGR blanked from my ECU a few years ago - I would say 'don't do it', my DPF has never been the same. If you are doing short journeys the DPF will take much more soot and need more re-generations.
 
   #10  

IanC

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Location
Bristol, UK
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=443988
Also the six digit code on the injector - I've seen a test report for a reconditioned injector and there are 6 test points starting with high pressure and steadily decreasing. Do the codes correspond i.e the first digit is high pressure (full load) and the 6th digit is low pressure (idle)?
 
   #11  

kcd

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Location
Belgium
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=494354
As an experiment I tried loading different injector codes into injector 2 (the one I replaced) - these made absolutely no difference to the measured imbalance, so I'm suspicious that these codes do anything at all and it is the learning cycle that does all the work in balancing. I've driven my car for quite a while now but my balance hasn't changed either so I've hit a dead end.
Does anyone know what the injector deviation numbers actually measure? VCDS also has a 'mean injector quantity' which for me is about 6mg/stroke, so having deviations of -1.5,+2, -1, 0.5 would indicate that cylinder 2 has 8mg/str and another is 4.5mg/str - wouldn't this cause a huge power imbalance and lead to engine shake (my engine cover shakes quiet dramatically!).
I had EGR blanked from my ECU a few years ago - I would say 'don't do it', my DPF has never been the same. If you are doing short journeys the DPF will take much more soot and need more re-generations.
Hi IanC

Have a look at this Youtube (I beleive Bosch piezo will work similarly as our Continentals):
I've read on a German forum there's an activation timing of the injector for 2 calibration pressures. https://community.dieselschrauber.org/viewtopic.php?t=28779&sid=ab66219d4a9103db080dfd01dd014a6f
Limit values would be +/-45 µs for the 1st pressure and +/-15 µs for the 2nd. Negative values indicate worm injectors, positive values indicate coking of the injector.
Die Werte beschreiben die Korrektur der Dauer der Pilot- oder Voreinspritzungen (sh. dazu auch einige Bosch-Patente) bei verschiedenen Raildrücken, und die sind in der Größenordnung von 100 µs (zumindest beim CJCD). Man will damit zusätzlich zu den IMA-Werten das Altern der Injektoren kompensieren.
Did you check these numbers on your engine? Maybe your running into these limits?

best
 
Last edited:
   #12  

IanC

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jul 23, 2021
Messages
18
Reaction score
1
Location
Bristol, UK
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=443988
humm! I can't see these values listed? Have you been able to find them on your VCDS?
 
   #13  

Crasher

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
246
Reaction score
125
Location
Nottingham, England
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=21420
The EGR units on the CAYA, B and C are horrendously unreliable and we will only fit genuine VAG units after having every single aftermarket one we fitted in the early days fail BUT we have even had genuine ones fail in three years. The same is true of the injectors, we tried recon and they failed (even genuine VAG exchange versions) so now we use new VDO Pierburg units.
 
   #14  

kcd

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Location
Belgium
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=494354
The EGR units on the CAYA, B and C are horrendously unreliable and we will only fit genuine VAG units after having every single aftermarket one we fitted in the early days fail BUT we have even had genuine ones fail in three years. The same is true of the injectors, we tried recon and they failed (even genuine VAG exchange versions) so now we use new VDO Pierburg units.
I noticed that Benteler Wahler is the OE manufacturer of the egr coolers. Would you recommend an aftermarket Wahler without the VW stamp or is there a quality difference with the one they sell as genuine VW?

Question is why they fail so often. Clogging will happen independent of the manufacturer I believe. But the other faults such as the failing gears and the pin coming loose is really a shame.
Looks like you replaced quite a bit of these. Could you give us an idea of the most common root causes?


As for the injectors I read a lot of issues on shortcircuiting the piezo but that doesn't look like my issue I still have 200 kohms, unless it can happen intermittently which I hardly believe. I think my issue is coking that's why I am digging into the injection timing data. Would be nice to be able to predict an upcoming fault in the injectors to avoid being stranded aside the road.

Best
Kcd
 
   #15  

Crasher

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
246
Reaction score
125
Location
Nottingham, England
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=21420
I tried one and it failed as did anther chap on another forum even though I warned him and he spent the next few weeks trying to see hat he had done wrong, as they are such a pain in the neck (literally) to fit the VW dealer backed (in the UK anyway) 2 year parts and labour warranty is priceless. Having said that the relevant dealers get grump about doing this when the part has come from TPS which I can understand BUT it is part of their VAG dealer franchise contract. I think the warranty is only valid if fitted by a VAT registered garage even if you by the part from a VAG main dealers parts department, you would need to check. We quote six hours labour to do one and that is with the car six feet in the air on a two post, I cannot imagine the torture of doing one on your back with the car on stands.

https://flic.kr/p/24G64BU
 
Last edited:
   #16  

kcd

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Messages
9
Reaction score
2
Location
Belgium
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=494354
humm! I can't see these values listed? Have you been able to find them on your VCDS?
I found these numbers:
Code:
IDE00383-ENG104210   Pre-injection 1: activation start-SOI_PREV_SP[0] -24.26 °
  IDE00384-ENG101378   Pre-injection 1: activation duration-TI_PREV_BAS[0] 0.0000 ms
  IDE00387-ENG99235   Post-injection 1: activation start-SOI_POST_SP[0] 5.74 °
  IDE00388-ENG102772   Post-injection 1: activation duration-TI_POST_BAS[0] 0.0000 ms
  IDE00385-ENG99181   Pre-injection 2: activation start-SOI_PREV_SP[1] -6.26 °
  IDE00386-ENG99911   Pre-injection 2: activation duration-TI_PREV_BAS[1] 0.2536 ms
  IDE00389-ENG103789   Post-injection 2: activation start-SOI_POST_SP[1] 5.74 °
  IDE00390-ENG102792   Post-injection 2: activation duration-TI_POST_BAS[1] 0.0000 ms
  IDE01380-ENG103961   Pre-injection 3: activation start-SOI_PREV_SP[2] -1.03 °
  IDE01381-ENG99178   Pre-injection 3: activation duration-TI_PREV_BAS[2] 0.2536 ms
  IDE01382-ENG103886   Post-injection 3: activation start-SOI_POST_SP[2] 5.74 °
  IDE01383-ENG100997   Post-injection 3: activation duration-TI_POST_BAS[2] 0.0000 ms
Don't know what the 1/2/3 mean, since there's no 4th available I think it's not related to the cylinders :confused:

I checked Injection quantity deviation at Idle and with a warm engine:

Code:
  IDE00365-ENG99400   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 1-FAC_CYL_BAL1 -0.9022 mg/stroke
  IDE00366-ENG101187   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 2-FAC_CYL_BAL2 -0.9249 mg/stroke
  IDE00367-ENG101684   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 3-FAC_CYL_BAL3 1.4412 mg/stroke
  IDE00368-ENG103465   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 4-FAC_CYL_BAL4 0.2404 mg/stroke
  IDE00405-ENG98787   Crankshaft speed (RPM)-N 780 /min
  IDE00472-ENG99569   Mean injection quantity-MF_INJ_SUM 5.004 mg/stroke

After a spirited 30 km drive, again at idling speed:

Code:
  IDE00365-ENG99400   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 1-FAC_CYL_BAL1 -0.2910 mg/stroke
  IDE00366-ENG101187   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 2-FAC_CYL_BAL2 -1.0384 mg/stroke
  IDE00367-ENG101684   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 3-FAC_CYL_BAL3 1.3274 mg/stroke
  IDE00368-ENG103465   Injection quantity deviation cylinder 4-FAC_CYL_BAL4 0.0881 mg/stroke
  IDE00472-ENG99569   Mean injection quantity-MF_INJ_SUM 3.240 mg/stroke

From these numbers I would think that Injector 1 is fine, but Injector 3 is overfueling and compensated by injector 2. Or injector 2 is giving too little and injector 3 is compensating? Still don't understand 100% what's happening with the injector settings in the ECU.

After the drive, I did a scan: no fault codes, nor from the injector 1, nor from the EGR.

@IanC I noticed there's an ID in "01Engine - Advanced measuring blocks" about how many times the Injector Quantity Adjustment procedure has been used.
 
Top