2006 Audi A3 2.0 TDI DSG BKD Cold start

[VAGMAN]

Hi,
I'm looking for some guidance/direction on an issue I have with a 2006 Audi A3 2.0 TDI DSG BKD.

if the car is left for more than 3/4 hours, it's very difficult to start - it eventually starts. I've added a non-return fuel valve to try and prevent fuel running back but this hasn't helped at all.

The temp and fuel sensor both read 18.9 C when reading the values first thing in the morning -
I have 2010 Audi A3 2.0 TDI (manual) which showed the temp and fuel sensor at 15 C, these values were read within 5 minutes of each on other on both cars.

I've captured the readings of the engine speed and camshaft speed readings when I started the car first thing this morning
you can see engine speed and camshaft speed reaching good values around 8 seconds

shall I ignore the 3 degree difference in temp and fuel readings compared to the second Audi?

does this point to a faulty/knackered starter motor which isn't providing enough power? but why does it not behave like this when the engine has been running?

I've done a full scan and there are no faults logged.

TIA

STAMP	Engine Speed - (G28)	Coolant - Temperature (G62)	Fuel Temperature - (G81)	Camshaft Speed
	/min	°C	°C	/min
0.3​	0​	18.9​	18.9​	0​
0.79​	0​	18.9​	18.9​	0​
1.32​	0​	18.9​	18.9​	0​
1.85​	0​	18.9​	18.9​	0​
2.39​	0​	18.9​	18.9​	0​
2.92​	0​	18.9​	18.9​	0​
3.43​	147​	18.9​	18.9​	0​
3.96​	210​	18.9​	18.9​	0​
4.5​	210​	18.9​	18.9​	84​
5.02​	210​	18.9​	18.9​	105​
5.54​	231​	18.9​	18.9​	105​
6.08​	294​	18.9​	18.9​	105​
6.6​	378​	18.9​	18.9​	126​
7.14​	357​	18.9​	18.9​	126​
7.65​	819​	18.9​	18.9​	147​
8.18​	987​	18.9​	18.9​	546​
8.71​	861​	18.9​	18.9​	483​
9.25​	777​	18.9​	18.9​	399​
9.77​	798​	18.9​	18.9​	378​
10.27​	819​	18.9​	18.9​	399​
10.79​	840​	18.9​	18.9​	399​
11.33​	840​	18.9​	18.9​	399​
11.85​	819​	18.9​	18.9​	420​
12.35​	840​	18.9​	18.9​	399​
12.89​	840​	18.9​	18.9​	420​

 

[VAGMAN]

Added a new battery, Varta 800A 80Ah, read 12.60 volts before starting but the same issue, 7-8 seconds to start.

 

[Uwe]

Hmm. Starter is turning over the motor at 210 RPM within one second. That doesn't seem to terrible.

I think three degrees of temperature difference between this car and another are probably not important.

Are the glow plugs working properly?

Can you post an Auto-Scan? Is fuel pressure available in the measuring values on this engine?

-Uwe-

 

[VAGMAN]

Hi Uwe,

I changed the glow plugs yesterday with a new set as there was a random message on each glow plug cylinder (when logged, it would always log all 4 glow plugs), since changing the glow plug that message no longer appears.

I'll do the auto scan and check if fuel pressure is available and post back.

thanks

 

[VAGMAN]

There are a couple of errors which have been logged as I've changed the battery and not taken the car onto the road for a test.

Tuesday,14,September,2021,16:57:53:25558
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 21.9.0.2 (x64)
Data version: 20210903 DS330.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUZZZ8P06A186786   License Plate: AA
Mileage: 174350km-108336mi   Repair Order:


Chassis Type: 8P (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 56 62 72 77 7D

VIN: WAUZZZ8P06A186786   Mileage: 174350km-108336miles

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
7D-Aux. Heat -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 03G-906-016-BKD.clb
   Part No SW: 03G 906 016 DT    HW: 028 101 189 2
   Component: R4 2,0L EDC 0000AG  7000 
   Revision: 12345678    Serial number: AUX7Z0F2FNI049
   Coding: 0300078
   Shop #: WSC 02629 005 00000
   VCID: 78F9AE3F0BB09D4979-802C
   VINID: 9D196AAAA2200064412061C818F620EED2

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 1 1 1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 02E-927-770.clb
   Part No SW: 02E 300 042 S    HW: 02E 927 770 AE
   Component: GSG DSG         070 1102 
   Revision: 04507000    Serial number: 00000603030083
   Coding: 0000020
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 2343A953E2B62E917C-8076

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AA    HW: 1K0 907 379 AA
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102 
   Revision: 00H13001   
   Coding: 0023170
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 71EF931B68CACC01BE-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8P0-820-043.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 820 043 M    HW: 8P0 820 043 M
   Component: KlimavollautomatH18 0260 
   Revision: 314473      Serial number: 8P0820043M   
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 366560074124AB39AB-8062

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 219
                    Mileage: 174243 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2021.08.26
                    Time: 15:08:09

             Freeze Frame:
                    Voltage: 7.50 V


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 8P0-907-279-23-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 907 279 F    HW: 8P0 907 279 F
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H43 1201 
   Revision: 00H43000    Serial number: 00000005559175
   Coding: 01884F01B214100000160000160000000008FE175C0100
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 08192
   VCID: 408906DF13E0158901-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8P2 955 119 B  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer AU350   H01 0130 
   Coding: 00062736
   Shop #: WSC 06314 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8P0-959-655-94.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 959 655 C    HW: 8P0 959 655 C
   Component:    Airbag 9.41  H12 3760 
   Revision: 91H12376    Serial number: 00362006UNN7 
   Coding: 0071612
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 428D0CD71DEC079917-8016

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332DRB40315101F9

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342DRB4031549B2J

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 63528RB4010C55D7N

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 63628RB4010D12D4F

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 63729RB401164F89R

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 63829RB4011649EAT

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 8P0-953-549-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 953 549 F    HW: 8P0 953 549 F
   Component: J0527           H34 0070 
   Coding: 0011112
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 418F03DB18EA1C810E-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
   Component: E0221           H03 0080

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8P0-920-xxx-17-MY7.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 920 981 B    HW: 8P0 920 981 B
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H80 0420 
   Revision: D06         Serial number: 2242FD06013714
   Coding: 0000413
   Shop #: WSC 51791 067 57207
   VCID: 377B6D03462E5231B0-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 G    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533__Gateway   H10 0140 
   Revision:   H10       Serial number: 300010630180F1
   Coding: 3F3F0BC007002103
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 2B5341738A66E6D1C4-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 8P0 920 981 B    HW: 8P0 920 981 B
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H80 0420 
   Revision: D06         Serial number: AUX7Z0F2FNI049
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 377B6D03462E5231B0-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 8P0-959-801-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 801 H
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0090 
   Coding: 0000688
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 408906DF13E0158901-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V2.clb
   Part No: 1K2 909 144 K
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.5   D06 1701 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 34615A0F5758B92995-8060

1 Fault Found:
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
            000 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 8P0-959-433.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 433 C
   Component:    KSG          H04 0050 
   Coding: 198000186D088505489FC63300
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 3C71722F7F0871695D-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 907 719 C
   Component: Neigungssensor  005 0003

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8P0 951 177
   Component: Innenraumueberw.H04 0020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 8P0-959-802-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 802 H
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0090 
   Coding: 0000688
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 418F03DB18EA1C810E-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 8P0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 035 186 C    HW: 8P0 035 186 C
   Component: concert II EU   H52 0100 
   Revision:      02S    Serial number: AUZ2Z3F3742191
   Coding: 0021221
   Shop #: WSC 06435 000 00000
   VCID: 326D5C17AD4CB71987-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels: 8P4-959-801.lbl
   Part No: 8P4 959 801 D
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0070 
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 408906DF13E0158901-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels: 8P4-959-802.lbl
   Part No: 8P4 959 802 D
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0070 
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 418F03DB18EA1C810E-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone        Labels: 8P0-862-335.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 862 335 M    HW: 8P0 862 335 M
   Component: FSE_255x BT     H21 0200 
   Revision: 00000001    Serial number: 00000000424935
   Coding: 0000122
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 408906DF13E0158901-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 7D: Aux. Heat        Labels: 1K0-963-235.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 963 235 E    HW: 1K0 963 235 E
   Component: PTC-Element         0404 
   Revision: 00800000    Serial number:              
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2D574F6BB472E8E1DA-8078

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:03)--------------------------

 

[VAGMAN]

There is no option for reading any relevant pressure, I've selected a few additional items but not sure if they can provide an assistance.

TIA

Marker	TIME	Group 1 - Field 0	Group 12 - Field 2	Group 16 - Field 3	Group 18 - Field 0	Group 22 - Field 2	Group 51 - Field 1	Group 51 - Field 3
	STAMP	Engine Speed - (G28)	Supply Voltage - (Terminal 30)	Supply Voltage - (Terminal 30)	Injector Status - Cylinder 1	Shut-Off Status - Charge Pressure	Camshaft Speed	Shut-Off Status - Injection Sequence
		/min	V	V			/min
	0.02​	0​	12.24​	12.24​	128​	1​	0​	10010​
	1.42​	0​	12.24​	12.24​	128​	1​	0​	10010​
	2.84​	0​	12.24​	12.24​	128​	1​	0​	10010​
	4.27​	0​	12.24​	12.24​	128​	1​	0​	10010​
	5.67​	168​	10.79​	10.34​	128​	1​	105​	1010000​
	7.18​	294​	10.79​	10.72​	128​	1​	147​	1010000​
	8.64​	756​	11.93​	12.01​	16​	0​	441​	1010000​
	10.1​	840​	13.15​	13.91​	0​	0​	399​	1010000​
	11.52​	819​	14.21​	14.21​	0​	0​	420​	1010000​

 

[VAGMAN]

Having gone through the log, I notice the following:

Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8P0-820-043.lbl
Part No SW: 8P0 820 043 M HW: 8P0 820 043 M
Component: KlimavollautomatH18 0260
Revision: 314473 Serial number: 8P0820043M
Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
VCID: 366560074124AB39AB-8062

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 1
Fault Frequency: 3
Reset counter: 219
Mileage: 174243 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2021.08.26
Time: 15:08:09

Freeze Frame:
Voltage: 7.50 V

what is this related to?

 

[Uwe]

There is no option for reading any relevant pressure

Yeah, I should have realized this is a PD engine...

How about this for an idea: Let it sit and get cold, to where you would expect it to be hard/slow to start. Turn ignition ON and run Basic Settings Group 35 (Fuel Supply Pump Activation). When it completes (should take about 30 seconds), try to start it. If it starts easily, we can be confident that the slow starts are indeed a fuel supply problem. If not, then the problem is elsewhere.

I've never had a PD. Do they run the transfer pump to build up some fuel when the you open the driver's door like most gasoline cars do?

-Uwe-

 

[tibcab]

I've never had a PD. Do they run the transfer pump to build up some fuel when the you open the driver's door like most gasoline cars do?

Indeed they do, I've owned a couple of them. At least the 1J chassis types do, I can't remember for the 1Ks.

 

[Uwe]

Indeed they do

In that case, it's possible the OP's problem is that the car isn't seeing the door being opened and not pre-running the pump.

-Uwe-

 

[tibcab]

@VAGMAN, can you confirm the ceiling lighting lights up when you open the door?

I guess the previous suggestion from Uwe should clear that out too if it is a fuel supply issue.

 

[VAGMAN]

Thanks guys, just to confirm, this model doesn’t prime when the door opens, you can hear the in tank pump prime when the key is set to position one before cranking, I have repeatedly put the key to position 0 and back to position 1 about 10 times to ensure there is enough fuel pressure being built up.

I will use VCDS as suggested by UWE and report back

 

[VAGMAN]

Okay, I tried using group 35 and initiated the process 4 times, you could hear the in tank fuel pump running, started the car and same issue, took about 6/7 seconds to start with similar values in the engine and camshaft speed.

I have noticed that there seems to be smell of diesel in the exhaust smoke, this becomes more apparent when holding the revs at 2000rpm, could this be the injector seals? loosing compression when stood for a long time?

 

[VAGMAN]

The first 2 injectors were loose, seems like someone has had a play with them before. The bolts seemed they had been re-used and not torqued to the correct setting, the last 2 injectors were fitted correctly, there was no play whilst they were seated.

replaced the 3 o rings and the nipple on each injector, used new bolts and torqued them down correctly.

The car starts up and drives much better, there is no blue smoke on start up and it fires up in 2/3 seconds.

 

[MartinsX]

P.S. 1 Have You checked the injector seats in cylinder head? They use to become oval at high mileages but it may happen very quickly if driving with loose PD injector bolts.
P.S.2 Have You adjusted injector rockers after removing/reinstalling injectors?

 

[VAGMAN]

Hi Martin,

Interesting you should say they, the injectors seats were oval however this matched the profile of the injectors, so I didn't take much notice. I was checking to see if there was any un even wear, but didn't find anything out of the ordinary.

I had removed the entire injector cam, so I thought I didn't require adjusting, the car runs, drives and idles just right. I have done the adjusting before on these injectors but will leave it for now as it seems okay.

 

[Crasher]

We get this a lot, the cranking RPM must be a minimum of 280rpm. Disconnect the head harness and with VCDS in measuring blocks, start cranking and keep going as VCDS will drop out and take a few seconds to respond, if you don’t see 280rpm, fit a new Bosch exchange unit. Often the one fitted is Valeo and we find these are far more prone to slow cranking than the Bosch. Remember to reconnect the head harness and delete the codes this test will generate.

 

[MartinsX]

Interesting you should say they, the injectors seats were oval however this matched the profile of the injectors, so I didn't take much notice. I was checking to see if there was any un even wear, but didn't find anything out of the ordinary.

Injector seats ("bores") are completely round as well as injectors. (When thy are new, of course ) It's a well known problem of 1,9 and 2,0 8v PD engines, with this foolish design - fixing PD injector only from one side.

Edit: Sorry, You have BKD - 2,0 16v engine, my comments above are all about 8v engines...

I had removed the entire injector cam, so I thought I didn't require adjusting, the car runs, drives and idles just right. I have done the adjusting before on these injectors but will leave it for now as it seems okay.

Cams must adjusted each time any of components removed/refitted.

 

[MartinsX]

We get this a lot, the cranking RPM must be a minimum of 280rpm. Disconnect the head harness and with VCDS in measuring blocks, start cranking and keep going as VCDS will drop out and take a few seconds to respond, if you don’t see 280rpm, fit a new Bosch exchange unit. Often the one fitted is Valeo and we find these are far more prone to slow cranking than the Bosch. Remember to reconnect the head harness and delete the codes this test will generate.

Agree!
A bit more explanation for those who don't know: it's in the fuel map of EDC15 and EDC16. ECU is not commanding injectors to squirt fuel before min requested rpm is reached at starting.
In addition to rebuilt Bosch starter,
a good battery and cleaned and re-tightened battery terminals, ground connection points and "+" connection at starter are required, too.
Another way is to edit fuel map in the ECU