MK7 Golf Estate, CAN-Gateway, Battery type info

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VAG-Dave

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Basically having a look through the channels under "adaptions" as was doing a full ad-map list for another member & noticed under the CAN-Gateway (19) module the following adaption channels:

(1)-Battery adaptation-Rated battery capacity,59 Ah
(2)-Battery adaptation-Battery technology,EFB
(3)-Battery adaptation-Battery manufacturer,JCB
(4)-Battery adaptation-Battery Serial Number,1111111111

Now those details are correct for the Factory battery the car had, but I removed this & fitted a much bigger Bosch 70Ah, AGM battery. Now I can change the capacity to the 70Ah, but the manufacturer box only allows input of "one alphanumeric character", & under the "battery technology" the only listed AGM is "binary-AGM".......so is this suitable fro my battery?

I can only think that this affects the SOC display, unless it also affects the stop/start I have on my car which is a 1.4TSI (140PS) manual GT (highline) spec.

Any help much appreciated. :thanks:
 
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Uwe

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Unfortunately, I don't think we've seen a whole lot of documentation on this stuff yet. Will try to to get the folks to do some digging.

I'm curious though, why you would replace the battery on a car that's what, 6 months old now?

-Uwe-
 
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VAG-Dave

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Unfortunately, I don't think we've seen a whole lot of documentation on this stuff yet. Will try to to get the folks to do some digging.

I'm curious though, why you would replace the battery on a car that's what, 6 months old now?

-Uwe-

Thanks!

Reason for replacement was I hate small batteries when the tray can take a bigger battery. My car has heated seats, heated front screen, sat nav, dynaudio, stop/start, bi-xenons, etc etc............& VW fit an 027 case size when even people like Bosch UK & Exide etc say according to their tech info the car should have the bigger 096 case size & an AGM version & not the cheaper EFB version. I don't use the car that much so an AGM battery & a bigger AH will hold more to properly run the car. Also on various forums quite a few UK people with the MK7 have hade "low battery" problems due to high current demand & the small batteries, solutions in various cases has been bigger batteries, infact my 14yr old Skoda had the same case size as the new car had (027) & the old car had a lot less current demand!

I do also use & have a proper C-tek ? charger which does AGM, 12V & long term. I actually did a how to guide on retro-fitting a bigger capacity battery on the MK7 forum under a different user name,

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7926

just I need to figure out this new bit of info!!
 
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Uwe

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Well, you won't get any argument from me that AGM batteries are better. Here's the car I owned 15 years ago when VAG-COM was still pre-natal, and AGM batteries were exceedingly rare:

vgi1.jpg


That battery was physically smaller and lighter than that stock one, but outperformed it by a wide margin.

-Uwe-
 
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It is important that the serial number changes, if you keep the old one in the module will assume the battery hasn't been replaced and keep using the incorrect characteristic curves. Bosch usually uses Varta as a supplier, so you may want to tweak that as well. The code you need to enter for Varta is VA0 (last digit is ZERO).

...but the manufacturer box only allows input of "one alphanumeric character"...

Eric fixed this problem last week, we will soon publish an updated Beta that should allow you to change this.

...under the "battery technology" the only listed AGM is "binary-AGM".......so is this suitable fro my battery?

Interesting, we probably need to look at that again. The displayed text should be just "AGM".
 
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VAG-Dave

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It is important that the serial number changes, if you keep the old one in the module will assume the battery hasn't been replaced and keep using the incorrect characteristic curves. Bosch usually uses Varta as a supplier, so you may want to tweak that as well. The code you need to enter for Varta is VA0 (last digit is ZERO).

Eric fixed this problem last week, we will soon publish an updated Beta that should allow you to change this.

Interesting, we probably need to look at that again. The displayed text should be just "AGM".

This is great!!

I will have a look at changing the serial number to the Varta one, & yes when I contacted Varta UK they stated they own the old "Delco Reme freedom batteries" (remember those, would never die), & also stated they make for Bosch, just I could get Bosch easier than Varta. Would the battery have a serial number on it to input in or is it just that number as it's for Varta/Bosch?
 
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Sebastian

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There is no usable serial number on the aftermarket battery and since the module doesn't really need that one, all it needs is to have a different one than before to start a new record.

[(1)-Battery adaptation-Rated battery capacity] to be changed from 59 Ah to 70 Ah
[(2)-Battery adaptation-Battery technology] to be changed from EFB to AGM
[(3)-Battery adaptation-Battery manufacturer] to be changed from JCB to VA0
[(4)-Battery adaptation-Battery Serial Number] to be changed from 1111111111 to 1111111112
 
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VAG-Dave

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There is no usable serial number on the aftermarket battery and since the module doesn't really need that one, all it needs is to have a different one than before to start a new record.

[(1)-Battery adaptation-Rated battery capacity] to be changed from 59 Ah to 70 Ah
[(2)-Battery adaptation-Battery technology] to be changed from EFB to AGM
[(3)-Battery adaptation-Battery manufacturer] to be changed from JCB to VA0
[(4)-Battery adaptation-Battery Serial Number] to be changed from 1111111111 to 1111111112

Will do this tomorrow & report back. Many thanks! :thumbs:
 
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VAG-Dave

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[(1)-Battery adaptation-Rated battery capacity] to be changed from 59 Ah to 70 Ah, Did this all ok
[(2)-Battery adaptation-Battery technology] to be changed from EFB to AGM, Did this ok, but as stated earlier it says "Binary_AGM"
[(3)-Battery adaptation-Battery manufacturer] to be changed from JCB to VA0, Comes up with an error screen stating "only one alphanumeric character", & it only changes the first one so the "J" can be changed to anything, but did to "V" so now reads "VCB"
[(4)-Battery adaptation-Battery Serial Number] to be changed from 1111111111 to 1111111112, Comes up with an error screen stating "only one alphanumeric character", & it only changes the first one so the "1" can be changed to anything, but did to "2" so now it reads "2111111111"

Changes done as above, I am running 14.10.2 (no Beta). All accepted by controller no need for security codes. Few questions
1. I have run my car with the new battery not coded to the CAN Gateway for about 6months now, haven't seen any faulty codes etc, would it have caused any harm??
2. What is the point of these channels in the CAN Gateway?, for SOC, Stop/start, anything else?
3. Will the type & manufacturer inputs be sorted, eg actual stored names or input names for the next full release?

I know you guys are working hard on loads of stuff, just that when I found these channels in the CAN Gateway it threw me a bit! I'll have to alter my how to guide I did on the MK7 forum (mentioned above) as I think a lot of people wouldn't ever guess that you need to alter the CAN Gateway when you swap the car battery out!!!
 
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Uwe

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1. I have run my car with the new battery not coded to the CAN Gateway for about 6months now, haven't seen any faulty codes etc, would it have caused any harm??
With a bigger/better battery installed? I don't think so. The car would simply have treated your battery more gently that the battery can bet treated.

2. What is the point of these channels in the CAN Gateway?, for SOC, Stop/start, anything else?
To give the car an idea how hard it can push the battery, and to give the car some ability to assess the condition of the battery.

3. Will the type & manufacturer inputs be sorted, eg actual stored names or input names for the next full release?
I doubt it. We try to use the same terminology you'd find in the factory tool.

I'll have to alter my how to guide I did on the MK7 forum (mentioned above) as I think a lot of people wouldn't ever guess that you need to alter the CAN Gateway when you swap the car battery out!!!
The need to "Code" a new battery has been around for 10+ years on some of the bigger Audis -- starting with the A8 in 2003. It's finally trickled down to the Golf now. :)

-Uwe-
 
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Thanks for that^^^^

Had a google re battery coding Audi, & WOW! learnt a new thing today Seems like it is there as you state to allow the car to understand how much battery it has to play with, so in my case it was still assuming it had a pokey 59Ah EFB instead of a big 70Ah AGM.........

Anyway the type & Ah are the important items which I get, & I also noticed that on other cars they are getting the serial codes off the side of the battery to input into VCDS.

So as per my post above, currently both the serial number channel & the manufacturer channel, VCDS will only allow change of the first (left most) alphanumeric character. So I can't input the VA0 code which as you say is the terminology used by VAG for Varta/Bosch, & nor can I input any meaningful serial number. Just wondering if the next full release of VCDS will allow this as you can currently do with other VAG cars (Audi Q7, A8, A4, )
 
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Uwe

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So as per my post above, currently both the serial number channel & the manufacturer channel, VCDS will only allow change of the first (left most) alphanumeric character. So I can't input the VA0 code which as you say is the terminology used by VAG for Varta/Bosch, & nor can I input any meaningful serial number. Just wondering if the next full release of VCDS will allow this as you can currently do with other VAG cars (Audi Q7, A8, A4, )
I may have misunderstood your previous question. Yes, that should get fixed.

-Uwe-
 
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I may have misunderstood your previous question. Yes, that should get fixed.

-Uwe-

No problems, & look forward to the fix. :thumbs:
 
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I may have misunderstood your previous question. Yes, that should get fixed.

-Uwe-

Yay! Just tried out 15.7 & yup I can now input any alphanumeric data into the serial number & manufacturer data channels. However the manufacturer name channel once it has accepted & re-polled the controller then shortens the name to the first three characters!.

Also AGM is still "Binary-AGM" & when I went into the measuring blocks & looked at battery type it came back "unknown"? Strange as I had exited VCDS totally switched off the ignition between altering the values under "adaptions" & re-reading the measuring values! The controller accepted the AGM-Binary from the built in list & the channels shows as such, just the measuring blocks?
 
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VAG-Dave

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I'm updating this thread as its still found easily via Google etc...

Looking at various info on the web from late 2019, it appears that the setting of "Binary- AGM" is incorrect for a standard AGM battery as factory fit AGM batteries are coded as "Fleece". So I changed mine to "Fleece" & also altered the "Serial number" setting by one digit to force the BCM to forget the old learnt values & treat the battery as a new installation.

This is a screenshot of the current drop down list in VCDS 21.3.0 from my 2015 model Mk7 Golf estate, any definitive list of meanings????:-



index.php
 
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It is important that the serial number changes, if you keep the old one in the module will assume the battery hasn't been replaced and keep using the incorrect characteristic curves. Bosch usually uses Varta as a supplier, so you may want to tweak that as well. The code you need to enter for Varta is VA0 (last digit is ZERO).

Sebastian: Hi. Maybe you can answer a question that has been bothering me for some time about the attention that VCDS users should give to the 4 x "battery" channels in the hex19 module?

Whilst I understand entirely the importance of this information in aligning the car's power-source to decisions that are made by the car's Energy-Management-System (EMS) - in truth, the data that the EMS uses about the battery is necessarily limited to the manufacturing technology that existed at the time when the module firmware was written. For some cars, this can be a substantial time before successive new batteries are subsequently replaced in the vehicle - and over that time battery technology can (does) change.

How does the obsession about getting the 4 x channels correctly set-up fit with the likelihood that the optimal "characteristic curve" for newer batteries is different from the information in module firmware? And perhaps a corollary question - are owners of older vehicles better served by choosing replacement batteries that have (older)manufacturing methods that existed when the car was built?

Don
 

VAG-Dave

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the data that the EMS uses about the battery is necessarily limited to the manufacturing technology that existed at the time when the module firmware was written. For some cars, this can be a substantial time before successive new batteries are subsequently replaced in the vehicle - and over that time battery technology can (does) change.

How does the obsession about getting the 4 x channels correctly set-up fit with the likelihood that the optimal "characteristic curve" for newer batteries is different from the information in module firmware? And perhaps a corollary question - are owners of older vehicles better served by choosing replacement batteries that have (older)manufacturing methods that existed when the car was built?

Don

So the drop down list that I posted above is generated by VCDS & not pulled from the car's BCM data??

Therefore how do we know what the BCM on any particular car supports???....Is it a case of submitting each option & if the BCM spits it back at you it won't accept it??.....I was hoping maybe one day to use the Lithuim-ions...as I could drop 12kgs to 14kgs nose weight!!
 

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So the drop down list that I posted above is generated by VCDS & not pulled from the car's BCM data??
Yes, it is generated by VCDS based on the data available from VAG. It should be the same as that available in the factory software.

Therefore how do we know what the BCM on any particular car supports???.
We don't know this for sure. We only know what VAG's data claims it supports.

-Uwe-
 
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