2004 Jetta TDI (9M) 280K miles. New HEX-V2 cant connect to 01-Engine

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Trifecta

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2004 Jetta TDI (9M) Manual Trans, 280K miles. Non-CAN vehicle.

Car runs well, no problems beyond a recurring P2169 code, an occasional P0128, and those common to the drivers door lock module. The presenting issue was that my cheap and trusty Autel OBD2 reader could only connect intermittently. Sometimes it wouldn't connect at all for a week or two, then be back to intermittent or working for a few days.

At the moment, the scanner is connecting and giving codes and live data. My shiny new HEX-V2, however, is not! VCDS can connect and work with other controllers in the vehicle, but not 01-Engine. Also, the VCDS OBD2 feature reports a non-OBD2 compatible vehicle.

Before getting the HEX-V2, I tried a $13 Amazon cable and VCDS-Lite, which does successfully read 01-Engine. This VCDS-Lite setup also reports OBD2 OK. If the scanner can connect, VCDS-Lite can also. Intermittently, sometimes for days at a time, neither can connect to Engine. The HEX-V2 has never successfully connected to 01-Engine, even when the others do.

The Options/Test function in VCDS 21.3 returns:

Port Staus: OK
Interface: Found!
Type: HEX-V2
Version:
CB: 0.4454.4
FW: 0.256
Status: Ready
CAN: Testing, K1:OK, K2:OK
VBat:11.46V, Vlgn: 11.42V
VIN(s) Used: 1/3

* The battery is new and tests at 12.6V at the posts. I have tried with a charger connected as well.

* I have spray-cleaned the cluster connectors per advice I saw here.

* Vehicle passes the "Aftermarket Radio Problem" tests: Voltage at DLC pins 4 and 7 at KOEO is consistently .335 volts with a 1k Ohm resistor in parallel, (11.2 volts without the resistor). Radio Harness is confirmed "non-offending" ;)

* Borrowed an identical known-working cluster with the identical part number. Swapping this in yields the same result: My OBD2 reader and VCDS-Lite can connect to 01-Engine and OBD2 functionality, VCDS/Hex-V2 yields controller not responding for 01-Engine (and no OBD2 compatibility), but can readily connect to the other modules in the car.

Help! and thanks in advance.



Autoscan:

Code:
Monday,28,June,2021,09:26:54:40971
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 21.3.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4544.4
Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 3VWSR69M04M091892   License Plate:
Mileage: 289720mi   Repair Order: JUN28-0926hrs


Chassis Type: 9M (9M - VW Jetta IV (1998 > 2014))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57
          75 76

VIN: 3VWSR69M04M091892   Mileage: 466260km-289720miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102
   Coding: 0019458
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3431155222216F1B5BB-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
   Component: 04 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003
   Coding: 12340
   Shop #: WSC 00066
   VCID: 270BF21EE6F71483EE9-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J5 920 906 Q
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V54
   Coding: 15232
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 3B233E6E0A7FA0639A1-5160
   3VWSR69M04M091892     VWZ7Z0C7944696

2 Faults Found:
01335 - Drivers Seat/Mirror Position Control Module (J543)
            49-00 - No Communications
01304 - Radio
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00066
   VCID: 70B9D94213B9133B7F3-5160

2 Faults Found:
01335 - Drivers Seat/Mirror Position Control Module (J543)
            49-00 - No Communications
01304 - Radio
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 1H Komfortgerát HLO 0003
   Coding: 00258
   Shop #: WSC 00066
   VCID: 372B225E365784037E9-4B1E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
   Component: 17 Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202

1 Fault Found:
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220)
            27-00 - Implausible Signal

End----------(Elapsed Time: 05:31, VBatt start/end: 12.4V/12.5V)-----------
 
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Uwe

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I suspect some wonkiness with your ECU, although it's also possible that your instrument cluster is causing this. The K-line on those cars goes though the instrument cluster to get to the ECU and can disconnect the ECU's K-line (called "W" in the wiring diagrams) from the rest of the car.

Wait, you already tried a different cluster, so we can probably rule that out.

Can we send you an older "legacy" cable to try? If it connects, it might shed some light on things.

-Uwe-
 
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Trifecta

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Yes. Please do. Beyond disconnecting and spray-cleaning ECU and module connectors, I'm at a loss at this point.

Send away! If you need anything beyond my recent order info, please advise.
 
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Oh, I had meant to ask if there was any wizardry in the VCDS Options menu that might be worthwhile to try.
 
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Uwe

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I had meant to ask if there was any wizardry in the VCDS Options menu that might be worthwhile to try.
You could make a debug file, but with a HEX-V2 and a K-Line ECU, it's not likely to show us much.

[Options]
- Set Debug Level to 1024.
[Apply]
[Select]
[01-Engine]
Wait until it fails.
Repeat this part a few times:
[Select]
[01-Engine]
Wait until it fails.
Exit VCDS gracefully.
Look in your Debug sub-folder e-mail DEBUG01.DLM to Support@Ross-Tech

-Uwe-
 
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Eric

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Unfortunately and as Uwe suspected, the debugs just show the Hv2 trying (the usual 3 times) to open a session and no response coming back. At least (or sadly depending on your point of view) there's nothing appearing wrongly set in the options, or any issue with slow PC hardware or low VBatt.
I see it's doing the CAN init prior to K-line (which is the default behavior). You might want to "Bypass CAN init" in the Options to see if that makes any difference. No need for new debug files at this point if it fails.
 
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Trifecta

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Thanks for the follow up -- appreciated. Nothing newsworthy from "Bypass CAN init" (nor the irresistible "Force K on Engine" button).
 
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I pulled and inspected the ECU connectors. There was zero evidence of corrosion or water ingress. I contact-cleanered the heck out of it all anyway, but they already looked great so I didn't expect any change in behavior.... No change in behavior.

However, I did notice a new DTC from 46-Central. Conv. (indicating an issue with J533) which may or may not be useful:

Code:
Sunday,04,July,2021,18:27:38:40971
VCDS Version: Release 21.3.0 (x64) Running on Windows 10 x64
www.Ross-Tech.com

                Address 46: Central Conv.       Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 1C0 959 799 C
  Component and/or Version: 1H Komfortgerát HLO 0003
           Software Coding: 00258
            Work Shop Code: WSC 00066 
           Additional Info: 1C1959801A  1H Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202
           Additional Info: 1C1959802A  1H Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202
           Additional Info: 1C0959811A  1H Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202
           Additional Info: 1C0959812A  17 Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202
                      VCID: 372B225E365784037E9-4B1E
2 Faults Found:

01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
            49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220)
            27-00 - Implausible Signal
 
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Trifecta

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Thank you for sending out the legacy cable for testing. I have run a new autoscan and debug file and am sending a .ZIP to the support email. Unfortunately, since the vehicle is not allowing the legacy cable to connect at present, I suspect it wont be helpful.

Summarizing, the car is intermittently in either of two states:

A) Autel OBD2 Reader, and VCDS-Lite+CheapoBlueCable can connect/function with 01-Engine, but VCDS+Hv2 could not (Both Lite and VCDS+Hv2 still work with the other controllers).

B) NOTHING can connect to Engine (Both Lite and VCDS+Hv2 --and Legacy Cable-- still work with the other controllers).

So... Car had randomly toggled to state A for a few weeks (yay). I purchased the Hv2, and then made my original posts here. Now for several weeks the car is back to state B... I check it with the OBD2 reader regularly, but no soap.

Since I have already tried a known-good instrument cluster, it seems likely that I have either an intermittent wiring issue or, as you initially suspected, a wonkiness in the ECU. Have you seen this particular wonky before? It may be time to open a thread in the repair section, but I'm not yet clear on my questions. Are there K-Line fixes to try, or tests to definitively isolate the ECU as the problem?

I have recently refreshed all of the documented ground points in the vehicle (except the ones by the ignition key), and disconnected the Central Conv. module as a test, with zero effect. I have seen the "disconnect module by module until it works" methodology, but that seems to be more of a CANbus fix...

Thanks in advance for any/all insights or even shots-in-the-dark.
 
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Uwe

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Thanks in advance for any/all insights or even shots-in-the-dark.
Got a wiring diagram?

Pull the instrument cluster. Put a temporary jumper between pin for the K-Line that runs from the cluster to pin 7 of the OBD-II connector and the W line that runs from the cluster to the ECU. IIRC, one of these on on the blue connector to the cluster and the other is on the green connector.

Can you then talk to the ECU?

In that car, the ECU is not directly connected to the K-Line and pin 7 of the OBD-II connector like every other module is. Instead, the K-line goes through the cluster and comes out as W. There's a relay in the cluster that can disconnect the W line from K, and if that's playing up, it could be the source of your issues.

-Uwe-
 
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Trifecta

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Don't have the exact diagram appropriate for this work. I get your drift on this, though, and thank you.

lol, step one: That wiring diagram for a 2004 Jetta TDI, VIN 3VWSR69M04M091892... erWin.
 
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Trifecta

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OK. For posterity, It appears to be pins T32a/5(Green connector) for the W-Line and T32/25(Blue connector) for the K-line. Both wires are green gray with white in this diagram.

Tomorrow will jumper with cluster removed and attempt to connect.
 
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Trifecta

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Good news. Bad news. News!

Failed to connect. I made debug files using Legacy Cable, but likely not helpful.

So... I had already tried a known good cluster, and bypassing the cluster entirely yields no fruit. Seems to point to ECU?

I confirmed good continuity between T32/25 (K-line from cluster) and DLC pin 7. I didn't test the W-line to the ECU because I didn't know what I should be looking for.

Are there any other tests or fixes I might try before declaring the otherwise functioning ECU bad... and embarking on the replace ECU route?
 
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Uwe

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I didn't test the W-line to the ECU because I didn't know what I should be looking for.
With the jumper between K and W in place of the cluster, you should have continuity all the way from DLC pin 7 to the respective pin on the cluster.

-Uwe-
 
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Good continuity from DLC pin 7 to the cluster connector pin that goes to the ECU was achieved with the jumper. I'm now wondering how to test from that cluster connector pin to the ECU.

Should I see some predictable/proper voltages from the ECU (W) at the cluster? How best to test?


If the W-Line from the ECU can be shown to be not-doing-what-it-should-be-doing, then I need to replace the ECU, goes my simplistic thinking.
 
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Uwe

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The W line is just a continuation of the K line that can be split from the rest of the K line by means of a relay inside the cluster. This was originally done to prevent sniffing of the immobilizer negotiations between the ECU and the cluster at the DLC.

-Uwe-
 
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Ah. TY for the clarification.

Sigh. Looks like this layman gets to learn how replace the ECU... What could possibly go wrong?

Thanks again!
 
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Try disconnecting the 46 module before doing much more. Twice in my career I have seen this issue and by disconnecting the 46 module the comms came back with the ECM, both times were with 1J cars (mk4 wagon) not 9M sedan. I have NO EFFING idea why this happens my guess is low battery voltage.

It's behind the fuse panel LH side of dash you can reach in and carefully pull both connectors.
 
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