02 Eurovan rough idle wanting to die

   #1  

davidhaag

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Volkswagen Eurovan 2002 MV Weekender

PRcodes

Van is stock with exceptions = re-manufactured AT replaced at 133k, aftermarket A/C compressor replaced 2x and AT has aftermarket external oil cooler

Known long term emissions problem with clogged charcoal EVAP filter – solution has been to remove vent line to be able to fill up gas tank.

Code:
Wednesday,02,June,2021,09:31:31:30738
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 21.3.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4543.4
Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV2NB47022H120417   License Plate: DMH
Mileage: 321890km-200013mi   Repair Order: rough-idle-at start-wants-to-die-4Ross-Forum



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 70 (7D - VW Transporter/Multivan (1996 > 2004))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 18 19 22 25 35 37 56
 
VIN: WV2NB47022H120417   Mileage: 321890km-200013miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 022-906-032-AXK.lbl
   Part No: 022 906 032 AF
   Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1  G   0003 
   Coding: 00013
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 4FFB79A3AECAAD53469-51A8

2 Faults Found:
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
            P1570 - 35-10 -  - Intermittent
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
            P0441 - 35-10 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
Readiness: 0010 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 909 603 CK
   Component: AIRBAG VW3 -        V04 
   Coding: 17227
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 74B1D64F67ACAE8B9BB-4B5C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 7D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 920 902 T
   Component: T4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V01   
   Coding: 03235
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 35372B4B2C56F7836C5-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001 
   Coding: 00003
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 70B9DA5F13B492AB7F3-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
   Part No: 6X0 953 257
   Component: IMMO                0008 
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 00000 
   VCID: 7DA7F36B54E6EFC3E45-4B00
   WV2NB47022H120417     VWZ1Z0B1993077

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels: 7D0-959-800.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 959 800 C
   Component:    Funksteuergerát  0001 
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 2D07032BC406BF43145-4B1E

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 02:16, VBatt start/end: 12.1V/12.0V. VIgn 0.0V)------

Current problems started after van outdoors for Florida winter. AT sizable fluid leak and lurching shifting with P0725 speed sensor DTC showing.

Purchased VCDS cos GermanTransaxle requires it. Then able to read 17574 – Long Term Fuel Trim, 16485 – MAF Implausible, 17978 – Engine Start Blocked by Immo, 18256 – check DTC in ABS module, 00532 – Supply Voltage B+ too low and 01202 – short circuit intermittent in Immo module.

Turned out the Supply Voltage B+ was great information and battery was indeed bad. Battery replaced. AT leak was broken filler tube. So AT troubles over and appear to be non-issue

But persistent rough starting and after test drive persistent EPS & Traction CEL with MAF Implausible signal DTC.

MAF replaced. PCV valve found unattached to intake tube leaving quarter sized hole in tube. PCV valve welded back in place with gel super glue and sealed with permatex.

Test drive for most part good, then EPC & Traction CEL lights on again. Engine hard to start wanting to die.

Replaced broken and clogged 2mm vacuum line from below connection of PCV valve to engine (oil condensation in intake).

Test drive OK, but if after coasting to 40mph then trying to accelerate there is hesitation and low power then power gains.

Cold start difficult and wants to die. Then Immo DTC returns.

Paid attention to electrical connections and cleaned corrosion from negative lead to chassis and cleaned all connections at battery and cleaned B+ connections at bar type fuse block near battery. No improvements.

Have noticed a -0.2 VDC difference in battery and fuse block voltage using the same ground point.

Have cleared DTC many times with returning MAF implausible, Engine start blocked by Immo and Fuel Trim additive air.

Have performed cold reset with battery negative lead disconnected and shorted to B+ for long period in hopes of clearing out any wandering 0 or 1 bits.

Current status = van is starting but then wanting to die. Coaxing of accelerator while in Park will get the van to stable idle state and then driving is possible. Recent test drives have not resulted in EPS & Traction CEL coming on.

Hope to find information on what fuse feeds B+ to ECM as this trouble seems to be intermittent.

I am unclear if Readiness consistently being 0010 1101 is an issue or not.

Looking for advice on next best steps to take
 
   #2  

Lgibson

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Our 16825 on ‘02 Eurovan was cured with a new N80.
 
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   #3  

Jef

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Where did the MAF come from? Does the car run better without the MAF plugged up? Does the fuel rail hold pressure when the engine is shut off?
 
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   #5  

davidhaag

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Where did the MAF come from? Does the car run better without the MAF plugged up? Does the fuel rail hold pressure when the engine is shut off?
Hi Jef, Thank you for the reply. I purchased the MAF on Amazon from Vod_AutoParts their Model 0280218017 it was $35. Definitely different components in visible window in end of MAF than the original Bosch.

The Van does run better with wire plug disconnected from MAF, but throws a DTC too low reading immediately which is expected with no connection. When plugging the MAF back in the van has rough idle and wants to stall and does not have any DTC.

I have original Bosch MAF and tried it again today. The van runs better with the Bosch MAF plugged in, but throws a too high DTC immediately.

I am going to buy some CRC MAF cleaner tomorrow and try cleaning the original Bosch MAF.

I did not get chance to warm up engine and read the fuel rail pressure this evening. Will try tomorrow and report.
 
   #6  

Bruce

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Jef has not responded but I will take a shot at what he is going to tell you...

The replacement part from Amazon is a Chinese Replacement Auto Part (CRAP). Get a real part...

try your cleaning effort but likely you need a real part. Go to the dealer to buy a genuine Bosch replacement. (Be aware, a low cost "Bosch" part is likely a Chinese knock-off. They flooded the market with them not too long ago.)
 
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   #7  

Jef

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If the vehicle runs better with the MAF unplugged, that kind of implies a crap MAF. With the MAF unplugged, the ECM will assume some base line values. As I recall, the engine assumes is 20C (68F) and at sea level, thus there is [X] g/s air being pulled into the combustion chamber, thus [Y] injector pulse.... engine should run pretty nice. And with a wonky MAF, the ECM thinks there is [X] g/s air being pulled in, but off by a factor of ??? amount and we have a poor running engine.
 
   #8  

davidhaag

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Thank you Jef and Bruce for the advice on MAF. I have ordered Bosch OEM MAF. I will install and test and post results.

Jef, I was not able to find the VCDS measuring block for 02 Eurovan to answer your question about the fuel rail pressure.
 
   #9  

Uwe

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Jef, I was not able to find the VCDS measuring block for 02 Eurovan to answer your question about the fuel rail pressure.
Yeah, ME7... It likely doesn't have a fuel pressure sensor.

-Uwe-
 
   #10  

davidhaag

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Thank you all for your help and guidance

MAF is replaced with OEM Bosch MAF ($85 on Amazon) and all is well.

Code:
Thursday,10,June,2021,15:31:01:30738
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 21.3.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4543.4
Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV2NB47022H120417   License Plate: DMH
Mileage: 321930km-200038mi   Repair Order: aft-OEM-Bosch-MAF



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 70 (7D - VW Transporter/Multivan (1996 > 2004))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 18 19 22 25 35 37 56
 
VIN: WV2NB47022H120417   Mileage: 321930km-200038miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 022-906-032-AXK.lbl
   Part No: 022 906 032 AF
   Component: MOTRONIC ME7.1  G   0003 
   Coding: 00013
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 4FFB79A3AECAAD53469-51A8

1 Fault Found:
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
            P0441 - 35-00 - Incorrect Flow
Readiness: 0010 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 01P-927-733.lbl
   Part No: 01P 927 733 CM
   Component: AG4 Getriebe 01P    4973 
   Coding: 00000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 
   VCID: 00598A9F2314822B8F3-0962

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 7D0-907-379.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 907 379 E
   Component: ESP 5.3 T4 FRONT    V37 
   Coding: 06639
   Shop #: WSC 02744 
   VCID: 333315532222E9B3421-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1J0-909-60x-VW3.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 909 603 CK
   Component: AIRBAG VW3 -        V04 
   Coding: 17227
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 74B1D64F67ACAE8B9BB-4B5C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 7D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 920 902 T
   Component: T4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V01   
   Coding: 03235
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 35372B4B2C56F7836C5-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001 
   Coding: 00003
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 70B9DA5F13B492AB7F3-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 6X0-953-257.lbl
   Part No: 6X0 953 257
   Component: IMMO                0008 
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 00000 
   VCID: 7DA7F36B54E6EFC3E45-4B00
   WV2NB47022H120417     VWZ1Z0B1993077

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks        Labels: 7D0-959-800.lbl
   Part No: 7D0 959 800 C
   Component:    Funksteuergerát  0001 
   Coding: 00001
   Shop #: WSC 02743 
   VCID: 2D07032BC406BF43145-4B1E

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 02:21, VBatt start/end: 13.0V/13.0V. VIgn 0.0V)------

The 16825 is long running DTC from clogged charcoal EVAP filter as a result of me overfilling gas tank on road trips - lesson learned. I am still looking for solution for EVAP charcoal filter as I cannot seem to find any replacement canisters for 02 VW EV.

The test drive after replacing Bosch MAF was really good. Running and shifting really well. Short highway mileage included in test drive. No MAF errors. Thank you all.

Lessons learned;

1. Always check the battery state of charge under load and replace bad battery before beginning any kind of VCDS diagnostics

2. Do not waste good money on cheap auto parts. The Chinese MAF was not only a waste of money, but even more a waste of time with misleading results.

3. Buy the right tools - the VCDS was purchased because I thought I had bad AT and the AT shop required a VCDS scan. Turns out I did not have a bad AT (bad battery) and the VCDS lead me to the real problem(s) with accurate information and helpful troubleshooting assistance here on the forum.

Will do some more test driving today.

I am still wondering if the persistent errors in Readiness are significant or not?

Thank you all again for the kind helpfulness.
 
   #11  

Bruce

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2. Do not waste good money on cheap auto parts. The Chinese MAF was not only a waste of money, but even more a waste of time with misleading results.
Glad it is sorted. Can't tell the number of times we have had this report... Chinese Replacement Auto Parts are just what the acronym implies.. crap. All your time and worry wasted because they do not make the replacement parts to the original design standard, yet they claim they do.

Readiness will not set properly until you get the charcoal tank sorted. It is tested as part of readiness.
 
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