2013 VW UP! no crank no start

   #1  

3barboost

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Hi team

Help please I have a 2013 VW Up! 1 litre 3 cylinder, with the Automated Manual Gearbox, (Think of it being similiar to a BMW SMG) this is mechanically identical to the Seat MiiGo and probably a few others within the VW / Seat / Audi family

The little thing doesnt want to crank and hence start - it has a code that instantly comes back when cleared P175F - Basic Settings not performed

When I got the car as a non runner and no history of the issue / cause etc
I performed the basic settings on the clutch actuation worked fine and would "complete successfully" however the gear actuator on the gearbox would make noises in response to the basic settings commands (select gear etc) but they would never "complete successfully" they would constantly go to "unknown" so since the ECU cant determine the cars in Neutral, the engine wont crank wont start, I then replaced the entire gear box actuator with a Brand New unit and exactly the same issue prevails.

As fault finding I have done this

1) checked all engine bay wiring and ecu at the battery tray for corrosion and/or chaffing - none found
2) checked all fuses including the one up by the obd port - no fault found
3) new battery
4) I can actuate various engine components from basic settings, ie switch engine fan on, switch evap solenoids, do throttle nody alignment, control the tachometer and speedo etc
5) stripped and cleaned the in cabin gear lever, the lights around this selector lever follow the selected gear - so no fault there
6) checked all interior wiring harness connections for tightness, corrosion and chaffing - none found
7) removed the "other" ecu from under the left front fender and inspected that without finding corrosion or chaffing
8) the engine cranks if i short the starter motor terminals
9) brake light switch works and all brake lights light up when pressed
10) physically verified movement occurs when the clutch is actuated
11) checked the gearbox for any other neutral or position sensors, only a speed sensor is fitted to it (the control units assume a position such as neutral from the actual actuator motors stepper position)
12) opened the old gearbox actuator to look for faults / shorts etc and nothing found, the new and old gearbox actuators are 100% the same, same impedance same positionally movement

The in car display shows a flashing N, regardless of in cabin selector position, the Red gear icon is lit constantly, the brake lights work

No matter what I try with the "Basic settings" I cant get it to accept or "complete successfully" so my process and method is faulty any help and assistance welcomed, before I engine swap it

The REDIRS failed is also a concern

any comments welcomed or other fault finding ideas

Thanks team

here is the autoscan

Code:
Saturday,15,May,2021,11:24:23:16328
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 21.3.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4543.4
Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWZZZAAZDD016435   License Plate:


Chassis Type: AA-VW12 (6N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 09 13 15 17 19 25 44 56 AD

VIN: WVWZZZAAZDD016435   Mileage: 100950km-62727miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
13-Auto Dist. Reg -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
AD-Brake Sensors -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CHYB)       Labels:. 04C-906-020-CHY.clb
   Part No SW: 04C 906 020 S    HW: 04C 907 309
   Component: 1.0l R3 MPI   H01 6475 
   Revision: U7H01---    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 00140012020400000000
   Shop #: WSC 58186 001 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM10MPI01104C906020S 001009
   ROD: EV_ECM10MPI01104C906020AA.rod
   VCID: 2B030EAF4386CCD30A1-807E

No fault code found.
Readiness: 1110 0101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J514)       Labels:* Redir Fail!
   Part No SW: 0CT 927 750 A    HW: 0CT 927 750 A
   Component: SQ100         H10 0013 
   Coding: 000120
   Shop #: WSC 59325 001 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMSQ101011 004010
   ROD: EV_TCMSQ101011_004.rod
   VCID: 46D55F1BF82411BBF5F-8012

1 Fault Found:
19931 - Transmission
          P175F 00 [167] - Basic Settings Not Performed
          MIL ON - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 100956 km
                    Date: 2021.05.15
                    Time: 20:47:03

                    Engine RPM: 0.00 /min
                    Transmission input speed: 0 /min
                    Transmission output speed: 0 /min
                    Engine torque: 0 Nm
                    ATF temperature: 18 °C
                    Accelerator pedal position: 0.0 %
                    Clutch status: 2
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 1
                    Driving mode-Text Tabel: Drivng Situation: KEINE_SYSTEMFREIGABE
                    Transmission status-CLEARANCE PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-DISENGAGE PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-engaged: not active
                    Transmission status-ENGAGING PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-General Error: not active
                    Transmission status-Initialisation of gearbox mode is active: not active
                    Transmission status-MAIN SYNCHRONIZE PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-MECANICAL BLOCKER: not active
                    Transmission status-NO SHIFT MANAGER DISABLED: not active
                    Transmission status-PRE SYNCHRONIZE PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-PRELOAD PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-PREPARING PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-PUSHOUT PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-REBOUND PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-REQUEST DOUBLE CLUTCHING: not active
                    Transmission status-SELECT PHASE: not active
                    Transmission status-Shifting acitve: not active
                    Transmission status-SYNCHRONIZE READY: not active


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels: 1S0-614-517.clb
   Part No SW: 1S0 614 517 D    HW: 1S0 614 517 D
   Component: EBC 460 ESP   H08 0011 
   Serial number: A000SHO
   Coding: 11BF247189AE02F788FE24F891AE408059B200
   Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Brake1ESPMP1TRWVW120 016035
   ROD: EV_Brake1ESPMP1TRWVW120.rod
   VCID: 303919C36AA0AF0B3F3-8064

1 Fault Found:
0342 - Please Check Fault Codes in Transmission Control Module
          U1026 00 [009] - -
          [MSG_GE1_ZIELGANG_FAULT]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 245
                    Mileage: 100956 km
                    Date: 2021.05.15
                    Time: 20:40:43

                    DTC: 00 01 56


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 1S0-937-09x-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 1S0 937 087 B    HW: 1S0 937 087 B
   Component: PQ25 BCM      H28 0555 
   Revision: -9------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 64B8290000010000000008042C28ACC00040400C60020000200000400100
   Shop #: WSC 12859 002 1048576
   VCID: 382921E38250774B773-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 1S0 959 655     HW: 1S0 959 655
   Component: VW10Airbag00C H03 0005 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 003G3003FN1L
   Coding: 000000000000000000000000000000003043
   Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVW12X 001001
   ROD: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750_VW12.rod
   VCID: 7BA3FEEFF3669C53DA1-802E

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side:
   Serial number: 3575HRB404V1EVLE3H88

   Front Passenger's Side Airbag Crash Sensor:
   Serial number: 3585HRB405R11PN850EH

   Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side:
   Serial number: 3555NRB40064UH24MOM%

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 1Sx-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
   Part No SW: 1S0 920 860 C    HW: 1S0 920 860 C
   Component: KOMBI         H21 0105 
   Revision: X0021005    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 114200
   Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
   ASAM Dataset: EV_KombiUDSMM9RM10 A04712
   ROD: EV_KombiUDSMM9RM10_A04_VW12.rod
   VCID: 303919C36AA0AF0B3F3-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
   Part No SW: 6N0 909 901     HW: 1S0 937 087 B
   Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H28 0555 
   Revision: -9------   
   Coding: 001100
   Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
   VCID: 70B9D9C3AAA0EF0B7F3-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:. 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 1S0 920 860 C
   Component: IMMO          H21 0105 
   Revision: X0021005    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ImmoUDSMM9RM10 A01702
   ROD: EV_ImmoUDSMM9RM10_VW12.rod
   VCID: 6A8DCBAB8CFC15DB317-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist (J792)       Labels:| 1Sx-909-144-44.clb
   Part No SW: 1S2 909 144 G    HW: 1S2 909 144 G
   Component: EPS_ECU       H40 1503 
   Coding: 0001000101000000
   Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
   ASAM Dataset: EV_SteerAssisNSK 009004
   ROD: EV_SteerAssisNSK_009_VW12.rod
   VCID: 382921E382D0774B773-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 1S0 035 156     HW: 1S0 035 156
   Component: Radio         H35 0050 
   Revision: R0000000    Serial number: VWZAZ1M2636005
   Coding: 0000040802
   Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
   VCID: 6889B1A3927027CB273-803C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address AD: Brake Sensors (J939)       Labels: 1S0-907-201.clb
   Part No SW: 1S0 907 201     HW: 1S0 907 201
   Component: CV-SENSOR     H06 0450 
   ASAM Dataset: EV_CVSen 001001
   ROD: EV_CVSen.rod
   VCID: 678BB29F9FEE28B32E9-8032

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 00:29, VBatt start/end: 12.1V/12.1V)-----------
 
   #2  

Uwe

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The REDIRS failed is also a concern
That just means VCDS is aware the part number exists, but can't find a label file for it. Since it's a UDS module, a label file wouldn't have much in it anyway. I'm not sure I've seen a Basic Settings procedure for this transmission. Perhaps @NEtech has something?

-Uwe-
 
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3barboost

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ok thanks for clearing up the reddirs isnt an issue

I have searched everywhere for a sniff of info on this issue and I haven't come up with anything, I have tried what seems to be logical steps in the basic settings options but they dont complete successfully, so I never get close to being able to start the car any and all help welcomed

thanks
 
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   #4  

NEtech

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Yes I have some Basic Settings, later.

Have you checked all connector in engine bay and for gearbox, first visually?

Please post Controller Channel Map here.

[Applications]
[Controller Channel Map]
- Controller Address = 02
- Login or security code: Leave blank
- Function: Measuring values
- Output: CSV file
[Go]

File is placed in C:\Ross-Tech\VCDS\Logs
 
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   #5  

3barboost

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cool, thanks for that, will be at the car in the next day or so and do that, the TCU / ECU does seem to be UDS if that makes a difference ?

I have checked all connectors in engine bay for tightness, corrosion and chafing, I also replaced the gearbox actuator assembly with no change
when I checked wires for chaffing, I kept one multimeter pin to ground and checked each pin for any short to ground, the only continuity is on the actual ground wires, if you got any other tests I am happy to do so
 
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PetrolDave

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I kept one multimeter pin to ground and checked each pin for any short to ground, the only continuity is on the actual ground wires, if you got any other tests I am happy to do so
The 'short to ground' message doesn't mean only a real short to ground, it means that there is no voltage when voltage is expected so it can also be caused by a broken wire or a blown fuse.
 
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NEtech

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the TCU / ECU does seem to be UDS if that makes a difference ?
No.

By checking connectors, I also mean, check for green stuff, and check if there are any female pin, that are enlarged and/or traveled a little into connector housing.
You have access to erwin manuals, how to change the different components?
One example:
vx65.png
 
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   #8  

3barboost

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Hi, all connectors are clean, shiny, no corrosion and no misplaced pins (all pins of similiar size are at a similiar height, bigger pins are at a different height)

I dont have access to erwin, that pic hasnt come through, from the name of the pic I take it to be the gearbox actuator unit

but the gearbox is a manual gearbox with bolted on electronic actuators that replace the normal cable shift mechanism

I do have the full workshop manual for the vehicle which provides wiring diagrams, mechanical assembly / disassembly if that helps

VX65 is the unit I replaced with a brand new one as that was the main suspect

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Dd2MSNS49Wvbm2Ye8
 
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   #9  

3barboost

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Hi


@NEtech Here is the channel map csv output

Please have a look and let me know what else you might need from the car ?

Cheeers and thanks



Code:
;SW:0CT-927-750-A   HW:0CT-927-750-A ---  Auto Trans
;Component:SQ100         H10 0013, Coding:000120
;EV_TCMSQ101011,004010,EV_TCMSQ101011_004.rod
;Saturday,29,May,2021,14:00:58:16328
;VCDS Version: Release 21.3.0 (x64)  Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
;VCID: 46D55F1BF82411BBF5F-8012

Group,Description,Actual
IDE00021-ENG98542,Engine RPM-Engine speed,0, /min
IDE00022-ENG121494,Transmission input speed-Inputshaft speed,0, /min
IDE00023,Transmission output speed,0, /min
IDE00025-ENG124656,Coolant temperature-Param to DOP_94674,15, °C
IDE00075,Vehicle speed,0, km/h
IDE00086-ENG121516,Accelerator pedal position-Accelerator pedal,0, %
IDE00090-ENG121515,selected gear-TEXT TABLE: GEAR,invalid, 
IDE00100,Engine torque,-23, Nm
IDE00102-ENG121529,Control Module temperature-Temperature CPU,26.00, °C
IDE00144-ENG121500,Transmission status-CLEARANCE PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121502,Transmission status-DISENGAGE PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG98540,Transmission status-engaged,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121507,Transmission status-ENGAGING PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG112322,Transmission status-General Error,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121498,Transmission status-Initialisation of gearbox mode is active,active, 
IDE00144-ENG121505,Transmission status-MAIN SYNCHRONIZE PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121510,Transmission status-MECANICAL BLOCKER,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121497,Transmission status-NO SHIFT MANAGER DISABLED,active, 
IDE00144-ENG121504,Transmission status-PRE SYNCHRONIZE PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121501,Transmission status-PRELOAD PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121499,Transmission status-PREPARING PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121509,Transmission status-PUSHOUT PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121508,Transmission status-REBOUND PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121511,Transmission status-REQUEST DOUBLE CLUTCHING,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121503,Transmission status-SELECT PHASE,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121496,Transmission status-Shifting acitve,not active, 
IDE00144-ENG121506,Transmission status-SYNCHRONIZE READY,not active, 
IDE00145-ENG99141,Clutch status-Clutch State,closed, 
IDE00322,Status of basic setting,not active, 
IDE00445,Unlearning counter according OBD,255, 
IDE00920-ENG99010,Front left wheel speed-Vehicle speed,0, km/h
IDE00921-ENG99010,Wheel speed: right front-Vehicle speed,0, km/h
IDE00922-ENG99010,Left rear wheel speed-Vehicle speed,0, km/h
IDE00923-ENG99010,Right rear wheel speed-Vehicle speed,0, km/h
IDE01834,Battery voltage,12.00, V
IDE02298-ENG121493,Adaptation of clutch kiss points-Clutch position,616, INK
IDE02792-ENG121495,Specified position clutch 1-Param to DOP_44308,1000, INK
IDE02793-ENG121495,Actual position clutch 1-Param to DOP_44308,1012, INK
IDE02794-ENG121512,Actual position clutch 1 duty cycle factor 1-Duity cycle,0, %
IDE02823-ENG125574,Identification of selector lever-Identifikation Wahlhebel,1S0 7133 025 S11    SCHALTBETAET. VOLL., 
IDE03393-ENG121518,Selector lever position-Gear lever input signal,Malfunction, 
IDE05228-ENG123377,Operating hour counter-Betriebstundenzähler,2407.57, H
IDE05402-ENG121492,Driving mode-Text Tabel: Drivng Situation,KEINE_SYSTEMFREIGABE, 
IDE06087-ENG121514,Excess temperature counter-Param to DOP_64079,0, 
IDE06448-ENG100569,Gear selector: gear 1: end position-Shift Position,738, INK
IDE06454-ENG100569,Gear selector: gear 2: end position-Shift Position,1262, INK
IDE06460-ENG100569,Gear selector: gear 3: end position-Shift Position,738, INK
IDE06466-ENG100569,Gear selector: gear 4: end position-Shift Position,1264, INK
IDE06472-ENG100569,Gear selector: gear 5: end position-Shift Position,737, INK
IDE06490-ENG100569,Gear selector: gear R: end position-Shift Position,1308, INK
IDE06882-ENG121495,Trans. fluid temp. model value-Param to DOP_44308,18.0, °C
IDE08291-ENG121493,Clutch position in opened up state-Clutch position,447, INK
IDE08292-ENG121493,Clutch position in engaged state-Clutch position,1025, INK
IDE08293-ENG121512,Maximum allowed PWM value-Duity cycle,100, %
IDE08294-ENG121513,Counter engage procedures-Param to DOP_19153,438149, 
IDE08295-ENG123375,Duration overtemperature state clutch-Param to DOP_08916,0.0, min
IDE08296-ENG121515,Target gear-TEXT TABLE: GEAR,invalid, 
IDE08297-ENG99010,Vehicle speed unpowered axle-Vehicle speed,0, km/h
IDE08298-ENG121517,Reset Status-Param to DOP_74796,0, 
IDE08299-ENG121519,Clutch excess temperature class-Clutch protection,---, 
IDE08300-ENG121512,Current PWM duty cycle engine 2-Duity cycle,0, %
IDE08301-ENG121512,Current PWM duty cycle engine 1-Duity cycle,0, %
IDE08302-ENG121520,Maximum value energy input through clutch friction-Param to DOP_34971,0, 
IDE08303-ENG125567,Currently closed gear-Gang_1_gesperrt,not active, 
IDE08303-ENG125568,Currently closed gear-Gang_2_gesperrt,not active, 
IDE08303-ENG125569,Currently closed gear-Gang_3_gesperrt,not active, 
IDE08303-ENG125570,Currently closed gear-Gang_4_gesperrt,not active, 
IDE08303-ENG125571,Currently closed gear-Gang_5_gesperrt,not active, 
IDE08303-ENG125566,Currently closed gear-Neutral_gesperrt,not active, 
IDE08303-ENG125565,Currently closed gear-R_Gang_gesperrt,not active, 
IDE08304-ENG123376,Adaptation state of transmission module-Einlernstatus Getriebe,nicht eingelernt, 
IDE08314-ENG121521,Counter for all gear engage procedures-Param to DOP_56608,548365, 
IDE08315-ENG121521,Counter for all gear disengage procedures-Param to DOP_56608,45673, 
IDE08316-ENG121528,Adaptation state of clutch abrasion point-Param to DOP_99400,4831, 
IDE08317-ENG98542,Differential speed between engine and transmission-Engine speed,0, /min
IDE08324-ENG100569,Actual position of engine 2-Shift Position,0, INK
IDE08325-ENG100569,Actual position of engine 1-Shift Position,0, INK
IDE08326-ENG98749,Instantaneous current of clutch actuator-Motor current,0.00, A
IDE08327-ENG98749,Current current engine 2-Motor current,0.00, A
IDE08328-ENG98749,Current current engine 1-Motor current,0.00, A
IDE08329-ENG121530,Expanded status information on production functions-Status_Einlernroutinen,Routine not active, 
IDE08336-ENG125573,Replacement measures group 1-All Gears are blocked,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123403,Replacement measures group 1-Clutch Adaption Values Are Set To Default,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG112437,Replacement measures group 1-Clutch open,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123395,Replacement measures group 1-Cranking is allowed 1,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123396,Replacement measures group 1-Cranking is allowed 2,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123405,Replacement measures group 1-Disconnect CAN,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123406,Replacement measures group 1-Gearbox And Clutch Adaption Not Allowed,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123402,Replacement measures group 1-Gearboxpositons Are Set To Default Postions,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123398,Replacement measures group 1-Gears are set undef,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123397,Replacement measures group 1-LongInit is not allowed,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123400,Replacement measures group 1-NO Double Shifts Allowed,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123404,Replacement measures group 1-Only Gears 1: 2: R and Neutral Are Allowed,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123407,Replacement measures group 1-Run Neutral Gutter Check,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123399,Replacement measures group 1-Run Shortinit,not active, 
IDE08336-ENG123401,Replacement measures group 1-Shortinit Is Not Allowed,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123382,Replacement measures group 2-CAN interruption,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123381,Replacement measures group 2-Clutch Limp Home,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123383,Replacement measures group 2-Keep Current Gear,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG125572,Replacement measures group 2-Launching is possible in all gears,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123386,Replacement measures group 2-Limp Home Mode Clutch Motor,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123384,Replacement measures group 2-Limp Home Mode Motor 1,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123385,Replacement measures group 2-Limp Home Mode Motor 2,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123379,Replacement measures group 2-No Position D,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123380,Replacement measures group 2-No Position R,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG98878,Replacement measures group 2-Red warning lamp,active, 
IDE08337-ENG123390,Replacement measures group 2-Shift To Neutral 1,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123391,Replacement measures group 2-Shift To Neutral 2,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123392,Replacement measures group 2-Shift To Neutral 3,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123393,Replacement measures group 2-Shift To Neutral 4,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123394,Replacement measures group 2-Shift To Neutral 5,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123387,Replacement measures group 2-Substitute Engine Speed,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123388,Replacement measures group 2-Substitute Transmission Input Speed,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG123389,Replacement measures group 2-Substitute Vehicle Speed,not active, 
IDE08337-ENG99064,Replacement measures group 2-Yellow warning lamp,not active, 
IDE08409-IDE08305,Gear selector neutral-Gear selector passage 1-2 neutral,998, INK
IDE08409-IDE08306,Gear selector neutral-Gear selector passage 3-4 neutral,998, INK
IDE08409-IDE08307,Gear selector neutral-Gear selector passage 5-R neutral,998, INK
IDE08410-IDE08308,Counter engage procedures-Counter for engage procedures 1st gear,73326, 
IDE08410-IDE08309,Counter engage procedures-Counter for engage procedures 2nd gear,133630, 
IDE08410-IDE08310,Counter engage procedures-Counter for engage procedures 3rd gear,132619, 
IDE08410-IDE08311,Counter engage procedures-Counter for engage procedures 4th gear,101954, 
IDE08410-IDE08312,Counter engage procedures-Counter for engage procedures 5th gear,48069, 
IDE08410-IDE08313,Counter engage procedures-Counter for engage procedures reverse gear,13094, 
IDE08411-IDE08318,Point of synchronization-Point of synchronization of 1st gear,930, INK
IDE08411-IDE08319,Point of synchronization-Point of synchronization of 2nd gear,1070, INK
IDE08411-IDE08320,Point of synchronization-Point of synchronization of 3rd gear,930, INK
IDE08411-IDE08321,Point of synchronization-Point of synchronization of 4th gear,1070, INK
IDE08411-IDE08322,Point of synchronization-Point of synchronization of 5th gear,930, INK
IDE08411-IDE08323,Point of synchronization-Point of synchronization of reverse gear,1070, INK
IDE08412-IDE08330,Number of engage blockers-Number of engage blockers for 1st gear,489, 
IDE08412-IDE08331,Number of engage blockers-Number of engage blockers for 2nd gear,0, 
IDE08412-IDE08332,Number of engage blockers-Number of engage blockers for 3rd gear,4, 
IDE08412-IDE08333,Number of engage blockers-Number of engage blockers for 4th gear,2, 
IDE08412-IDE08334,Number of engage blockers-Number of engage blockers for 5th gear,1384, 
IDE08412-IDE08335,Number of engage blockers-Number of engage blockers for reverse gear,70, 
MAS04894,Operating mode,GET_INIT_KURZ, 

Elapsed Time: 00:06
 
   #10  

3barboost

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Hi all

@NEtech was the channel map of any help ?

any other items / downloads etc I can do ?

any other suggestions ?

cheers
 
   #11  

NEtech

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Look at these measurement values:

IDE00145-ENG99141,Clutch status-Clutch State, closed > open
IDE03393-ENG121518,Selector lever position-Gear lever input signal, Malfunction > Neutral
IDE00090-ENG121515,selected gear-TEXT TABLE: GEAR, invalid > Neutral 1-2
IDE00144-ENG98540,Transmission status-engaged, not active > active
IDE00144-ENG121498,Transmission status-Initialisation of gearbox mode is active, active > not active
IDE08304-ENG123376,Adaptation state of transmission module-Einlernstatus Getriebe, nicht eingelernt > Getriebe eingelernt
IDE08337-ENG98878,Replacement measures group 2-Red warning lamp, active > not active
MAS04894,Operating mode, GET_INIT_KURZ > Normal oper.
> Normal value

Examine gear selector system.
Maybe not installed like described in manual.
Disassemble it for examination.
 
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   #12  

3barboost

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Hi @NEtech

Thanks for the reply and help

As to the gear selector (on the gearbox)

The unit on the gearbox was my first suspicion and I replaced with a brand new one out the box and nothing changed
To remove the old one, I used VCDS basic settings to put the old unit in a certain position for removal, noises could be heard and after undoing 3 torx the unit itself came out easily and in the gearbox the 3 mechanical selector forks could be seen all in a row (verifying a neutral condition and an easy way to remove / re install)

I did strip and inspect the old one and found no fault in it, all the gears are intact, the electric motors (literally the same as electric window motors) move and there are no positioning sensors or neutral position sensors in this unit, it seems to all rely on "stepper motor or load/current draw based" feedback

On reinstalling the brand new unit, it slipped straight into place in the gearbox, in assembly / disassembly position, I used the VCDS basic settings for the Auto Trans, I have clicked the "initialise Gear Selector" "Go" and it runs and it "completes successfully" noises can be heard from the unit mounted on the gearbox when doing this

As to the gear selector (in cabin)

I stripped it and cleaned it, examined it for loose contacts, broken wires, spillage damage etc and found none
The red led lights around the gear lever follow the gear lever actuation, so if in N position, the N light is lit, same for R, R light is lit - this happens no matter what "control modules" are plugged in or plugged out

Other Electronic units

I did find if i unplugged the "control unit" at the battery tray the gear icon in the drivers dash display would follow the in cabin levers movement, but obviously the car wont start, I also have unplugged the other "control unit" hidden in the inner fender with no change, in other words the display remains at a flashing N

Basic Settings and other items

When I have used the basic settings option the clutch actuation part completes successfully - and I have verified the movement of the clutch position arm visually, obviously I cant adjust the clutch bite point without the engine running

When doing the gear selection basic settings (on gearbox) many of the parameters dont go to "Success" I presume this is due to me not knowing a sequence to do them in

What physical items should I replace ? - could the clutch be worn ? mileage is at 100k km
What about a physical issue in the gearbox thats preventing the electrically driven actuators from moving ?
Or is their a process required to follow to get "basic settings" to be retained / completed successfully ?
are some of the INK values too close to thresholds ?

Any and all help welcomed, even if it means redoing whats been done, I really want to see this damn thing start !


If I look at the values above this is how I read it and I am pretty sure some of this will be wrong

1) Car has clutch OPEN (as if foot is depressed) the clutch arm is pushing the clutch fork (closed seems to indicate clutch would be engaged)

2) The gear selector (in cabin) is in Neutral

3) The car thinks its in Neutral first or second, or could be in Neutral and the next logical shift would be to First and then Second or the car has no clue here ?

4) the gear box thinks its in gear ?

5) Gearbox not initialised ?

6) The gearbox has adapted ?

7) the red gearbox icon on the dash is RED and lit, there is a yellow gearbox icon alongisde it which is not lit, this is confusing as the visual display contradicts the values from the controller

8) then it thinks its status normal ?

Happy to pay for remote access into my pc when plugged into the car with vcds
 
   #13  

3barboost

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Hiya

Anyone ?
Any ideas at all ?

help please
 
   #14  

3barboost

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Look at these measurement values:

IDE00145-ENG99141,Clutch status-Clutch State, closed > open
IDE03393-ENG121518,Selector lever position-Gear lever input signal, Malfunction > Neutral
IDE00090-ENG121515,selected gear-TEXT TABLE: GEAR, invalid > Neutral 1-2
IDE00144-ENG98540,Transmission status-engaged, not active > active
IDE00144-ENG121498,Transmission status-Initialisation of gearbox mode is active, active > not active
IDE08304-ENG123376,Adaptation state of transmission module-Einlernstatus Getriebe, nicht eingelernt > Getriebe eingelernt
IDE08337-ENG98878,Replacement measures group 2-Red warning lamp, active > not active
MAS04894,Operating mode, GET_INIT_KURZ > Normal oper.
> Normal value

Examine gear selector system.
Maybe not installed like described in manual.
Disassemble it for examination.
latest update i have swapped between the old gear actuator and new one and back to new one in the car with no change
i followed the procedure in basic settings to remove the unit
and to install in position

Any other ideas or what else to check ?

help please before i burn this damn thing
 
   #15  

3barboost

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hi all

any other ideas on this ?

what do i need to do to make the basic settings stick ?

help please
 
   #16  

3barboost

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Hi

@NEtech

Any other ideas on this ?

What parts must I inspect / strip ?

heres a video of the actuator connected to the car and being triggered via vcds

As can be seen the ecu's appear to have control of the actuator and that routine is "centering" and the rest position is neutral, i have verified the gearbox is indeed in neutral

why wont the car start ?
is there some other component or item before the gearbox that is "flaky"

Thanks for reading

 
   #17  

iichel

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Did you already have a look at any basic settings?
 
   #18  

3barboost

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Did you already have a look at any basic settings?
Hi

Thanks for reading

Yes, I have done some of the basic settings, some of them complete successfully some never complete, I can only guess that the ones that never complete are due to me simply not having the info of "what order or sequence" to perform the basic settings in as there is normally a sequence

but is "basic settings not performed" a no start code ? I can imagine i wouldn't be able to get gears, but the car should still start

some of the basic settings relate to clutch bite point, that can only be set once the engine is running and the clutch can be engaged and the ecu can compare known engine rpm to gearbox input shaft rpm and deduce the actual clutch engagement point, that cant be done if the engine wont crank, wont start and it seems that some basic settings will not complete unless water temperature is over 70deg as an example - so how can that occur / be achieved if the engine wont start ?

in the video you can see the vcds screen in basic settings and the actuator responding to the command, so some basic settings do definitely give a response

do you know which order / sequence the settings should be done or where else to look to find out why it wont crank ?

any and all ideas welcome

happy to share screenshots or videos of results, there seems to be a lack of info on these gearboxes

thanks
 
   #19  

iichel

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I have absolutely no clue where to start, to be honest. But since the gearbox itself is complaining about a missing basic setting, that's where I'd start.
Perhaps it needs to find the neutral position for the gearbox again, clutch position, etc. If these conditions are not met while starting, it makes sense that it's not starting.

More precise, I can't be, since I've never seen such a transmission up close.
 
   #20  

NEtech

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Any idea why it does not start?
Starter turning?
Is there injection pulse activity and/or ignition ?
 
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