E-Up! Battery check

   #1  

MickB

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Hi guys!

I own a 2016 e-Up (full electrical vehicle).

The battery is VW guaranteed 8 years, at 80% of its initial capacity.
VW is able to "read" the battery state with there diag system.

I’d like to check the battery state on my own, do you know if it’s possible with VCDS?

Thanks!
Mike
 
   #2  

PetrolDave

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We'll need to see a full unedited English VCDS Auto-Scan to see what version of the Battery Management System your e-Up is fitted with.
 
   #3  

NEtech

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I doubt it is 80%, do you have that in writing?
Normally it is 70%

As far as I know, possible, I guess so, doable, I don't think so at the moment.
Your VW dealer cannot do it with the original tester, they have to get a special code from VW, to do it.
 
   #4  

MickB

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We'll need to see a full unedited English VCDS Auto-Scan to see what version of the Battery Management System your e-Up is fitted with.
Done!
 
   #5  

MickB

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I doubt it is 80%, do you have that in writing?
Normally it is 70%

As far as I know, possible, I guess so, doable, I don't think so at the moment.
Your VW dealer cannot do it with the original tester, they have to get a special code from VW, to do it.
Honnestly I'm not 100% sure of the percentage level of the guarentee. I've 80% in mind but I should check that.
Nevermind, the point is more to check the actual battery status.

It's possible that VW use a special tool to check that, but I doubt that the measure is done by an external tool. It seem more possible that the battery auto-monitor itself and the VW tool juste read the datas (It's almost impossible to check a battery status with a one-time measure).
 
   #6  

NEtech

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I did not write about an special tool, or external tool.
They use there standard tester (odis), but a special unknown procedure.
 
   #7  

MickB

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Ok, understand!
So you think there’s no way to read this information without going to VW,
 
   #8  

Uwe

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There is a lot of data in the Measuring Values in 8C-Hybrid Battery. I am not sure any of it explicitly shows the remaining capacity -- which is actually pretty difficult to determine because capacity losses of li-ion cells is not at all a linear function.

IMO, the only way to truly know remaining capacity of the battery is to put it through a full charge and discharge cycle, and to accurately measure the power you can get out of it during discharge. I have done this with individual li-ion cells that I use for another purpose (not EVs), and was quite astonished to find how much the actual capacity of used ones had degraded compared to unused ones from the same batch. This degradation was not noticeable in ordinary use because my ordinary use was only in the top half of the discharge curve.

Here is an example of two cells (both used, but one used more than the other). You can see that the the curves are almost the same until the very end, where one falls off considerably sooner than the other:

VTC5-1A1C.png

All that said, I suggest posting a Measuring Value Map from your 8C-Hybrid Battery module just "for science". Maybe we can see something useful in there.

-Uwe-
 
   #9  

MickB

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IMO, the only way to truly know remaining capacity of the battery is to put it through a full charge and discharge cycle, and to accurately measure the power you can get out of it during discharge.
Yes I agree, that's the most truly way. But for that you need tu know precisely your consumption. Easy for an individual cell (even a pack), but much more difficult with a car, too many factors influence the consumption.

I suggest posting a Measuring Value Map from your 8C-Hybrid Battery module just "for science".
I'm on it!
 
   #10  

MickB

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Code:
Saturday,10,April,2021,19:12:07:05101
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 21.3.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4543.4
Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWZZZAAZGD901557   License Plate:
Mileage: 53000   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Address 8C: Hybrid Battery  (12E 915 227 Q)

  IDE00019   Voltage terminal 30 13.150 V
  IDE00020   Terminal 15 status On
  IDE00030   Status of actuator test not active
  IDE00056-ENG125711   History data 1-HVBHDM01_1 6
  IDE00056-ENG125712   History data 1-HVBHDM01_2 8
  IDE00056-ENG125713   History data 1-HVBHDM01_3 48
  IDE00056-ENG28733   History data 1-HVBHDM01_4 00 00 00 00
  IDE00057-ENG125714   History data 2-HVBHDM02_1 8
  IDE00057-ENG125715   History data 2-HVBHDM02_2 8
  IDE00057-ENG125716   History data 2-HVBHDM02_3 64
  IDE00057-ENG28734   History data 2-HVBHDM02_4 00 00 00 00
  IDE00058-ENG125717   History data 3-HVBHDM03_1 8
  IDE00058-ENG125718   History data 3-HVBHDM03_2 8
  IDE00058-ENG125719   History data 3-HVBHDM03_3 64
  IDE00058-ENG28735   History data 3-HVBHDM03_4 00 00 02 31
  IDE00059-ENG125720   History data 4-HVBHDM04_1 8
  IDE00059-ENG125721   History data 4-HVBHDM04_2 8
  IDE00059-ENG125722   History data 4-HVBHDM04_3 64
  IDE00059-ENG28736   History data 4-HVBHDM04_4 00 00 00 00
  IDE00060-ENG125723   History data 5-HVBHDM05_3 6
  IDE00060-ENG28737   History data 5-HVBHDM05_4 00 00 00 00
  IDE00061-ENG125724   History data 6-HVBHDM06_1 10
  IDE00061-ENG125725   History data 6-HVBHDM06_2 2
  IDE00061-ENG125726   History data 6-HVBHDM06_3 20
  IDE00061-ENG28738   History data 6-HVBHDM06_4 00 03 78 D5
  IDE00062-ENG125727   History data 7-HVBHDM07_1 6
  IDE00062-ENG125728   History data 7-HVBHDM07_2 6
  IDE00062-ENG125729   History data 7-HVBHDM07_3 21
  IDE00062-ENG28739   History data 7-HVBHDM07_4 00 00
  IDE00063-ENG125730   History data 8-HVBHDM08_1 6
  IDE00063-ENG125731   History data 8-HVBHDM08_2 6
  IDE00063-ENG125732   History data 8-HVBHDM08_3 21
  IDE00063-ENG28740   History data 8-HVBHDM08_4 00 00
  IDE00066-ENG125733   History data 11-HVBHDM11_1 8
  IDE00066-ENG125734   History data 11-HVBHDM11_2 2
  IDE00066-ENG125735   History data 11-HVBHDM11_3 16
  IDE00066-ENG28741   History data 11-HVBHDM11_4 00 00
  IDE00067-ENG125736   History data 12-HVBHDM12_1 8
  IDE00067-ENG125737   History data 12-HVBHDM12_2 2
  IDE00067-ENG125738   History data 12-HVBHDM12_3 16
  IDE00067-ENG28742   History data 12-HVBHDM12_4 00 00
  IDE00069-ENG125739   History data 14-HVBHDM14_1 11 40
  IDE00069-ENG125740   History data 14-HVBHDM14_2 102
  IDE00069-ENG28743   History data 14-HVBHDM14_3 71
  IDE00070-ENG125741   History data 15-HVBHDM15_1 17
  IDE00070-ENG125742   History data 15-HVBHDM15_2 40
  IDE00070-ENG125743   History data 15-HVBHDM15_3 680
  IDE00070-ENG28744   History data 15-HVBHDM15_4 7D
  IDE00071-ENG125744   History data 16-HVBHDM16_1 6E
  IDE00071-ENG125745   History data 16-HVBHDM16_2 00 00
  IDE00071-ENG125746   History data 16-HVBHDM16_3 79
  IDE00071-ENG125747   History data 16-HVBHDM16_4 01 FA
  IDE00071-ENG125748   History data 16-HVBHDM16_5 1
  IDE00071-ENG125749   History data 16-HVBHDM16_6 00 F8
  IDE00322   Status of basic setting was not yet started
  IDE00323   Security Access: Number of invalid keys 0
  IDE00704   State of Charge (SOC) 59.600 %
  IDE00773   Terminal 15 status via CAN On
  IDE00961-MAS05695   Malfunction Indicator Lamp-Start request not active
  IDE01021   Current of H-V / hybrid battery -0.500 A
  IDE01036-MAS01375   High voltage / Hybrid Battery history data 1-Counter for amp hour charge 25803.541 Ah
  IDE01036-MAS01376   High voltage / Hybrid Battery history data 1-Counter for amp hour discharge -26182.701 Ah
  IDE01036-MAS01377   High voltage / Hybrid Battery history data 1-Counter for kilowatt hour charge 10017.262 kWh
  IDE01036-MAS01378   High voltage / Hybrid Battery history data 1-Counter for kilowatt hour discharge -9951.390 kWh
  IDE01718   Crash signal not active
  IDE01803-ENG125750   History data 17-HVBHDM17_1 6
  IDE01803-ENG28745   History data 17-HVBHDM17_2 17 E4
  IDE01804-ENG125751   History data 18-HVBHDM18_1 8
  IDE01804-ENG28746   History data 18-HVBHDM18_2 00 00 CE 9E
  IDE01805-ENG125752   History data 19-HVBHDM19_1 7
  IDE01805-ENG28747   History data 19-HVBHDM19_2 00 F8 8F 59
  IDE01806-ENG125753   History data 20-HVBHDM20_1 7
  IDE01806-ENG28748   History data 20-HVBHDM20_2 0E C0 25 66
  IDE01838   Battery temperature 15.016 °C
  IDE03410-MAS05695   Yellow warning lamp-Start request not active
  IDE03411-MAS05695   Red warning lamp-Start request not active
  IDE05416   H-V battery insulation measurement test voltage 500 V
  IDE06236   Serial number of high voltage battery control module 288 VWACGAQ00I
  IDE06346   H-V battery voltage 378.250 V
  IDE06404   Pilot line not active
  IDE06479   Battery dissipation loss 0 W
  IDE06673   Initialization status not active
  IDE06805   Status of voltage freedom not active
  IDE06948   High-volt. battery mode: spec. value HV
  IDE06973   Power reduction status not active
  IDE07044-MAS01420   Predictive limit for charge current-Limit for charge current 131 A
  IDE07045-MAS01420   Dynamic limit for charge current-Limit for charge current 131 A
  IDE08217-MAS01234   maximum voltage for battery cells-Index 1 35
  IDE08217-MAS02985   maximum voltage for battery cells-Value 3.714 V
  IDE08218-MAS01234   minimum voltage for battery cells-Index 1 82
  IDE08218-MAS02985   minimum voltage for battery cells-Value 3.708 V
  IDE08228   Positive voltage of high volt battery after load protection -0.063 V
  IDE08229   Negative voltage of high volt battery after load protection -0.063 V
  IDE08230-MAS01421   Dynamic limit for discharge current-Limit for discharge current 198 A
  IDE08231-MAS01421   Predictive limit for discharge current-Limit for discharge current 198 A
  IDE80253   Voltage terminal 30C 13.000 V
  MAS00464-MAS00106   Standard - ambient data 1-Year 2058
  MAS00464-MAS00107   Standard - ambient data 1-Month 14
  MAS00464-MAS00108   Standard - ambient data 1-Day 30
  MAS00464-MAS00109   Standard - ambient data 1-Hours 19
  MAS00464-MAS00110   Standard - ambient data 1-Minutes 15
  MAS00464-MAS00111   Standard - ambient data 1-Seconds 27
  MAS00464-MAS00468   Standard - ambient data 1-Unlearning counter 123
  MAS00464-MAS00711   Standard - ambient data 1-Odometer reading 53754 km
  MAS01302   Protection of posit. terminal of high voltage / hybrid battery closed
  MAS01303   Protection of neg. terminal of high voltage / hybrid battery closed
  MAS02199-MAS01966   Lowest measured temperature-Temperature sensor 2
  MAS02199-MAS02985   Lowest measured temperature-Value 14.781 °C
  MAS02200-MAS01966   Highest measured temperature-Temperature sensor 9
  MAS02200-MAS02985   Highest measured temperature-Value 15.375 °C
  MAS04266   Temperature sensor 1 14.984 °C
  MAS04267   Temperature sensor 2 14.797 °C
  MAS04268   Temperature sensor 3 15.094 °C
  MAS04269   Temperature sensor 4 14.984 °C
  MAS04270   Temperature sensor 5 15.094 °C
  MAS04271   Temperature sensor 6 15.094 °C
  MAS04272   Temperature sensor 7 14.891 °C
  MAS04273   Temperature sensor 8 15.094 °C
  MAS04291   Positive voltage of high volt battery after protection 189.125 V
  MAS04292   Negative Voltage of high volt battery after protection -189.063 V
  MAS04293   Entire HV system positive terminal insulation resistance 4720 kOhm
  MAS04294   HV battery positive terminal insulation resistance 100000 kOhm
  MAS04295   Entire HV system minus terminal insulation resistance 4320 kOhm
  MAS04296   HV battery minus terminal insulation resistance 100000 kOhm
  MAS04649   Cell 1 3.711 V
  MAS04650   Cell 2 3.712 V
  MAS04651   Cell 3 3.712 V
  MAS04652   Cell 4 3.712 V
  MAS04653   Cell 5 3.711 V
  MAS04654   Cell 6 3.712 V
  MAS04655   Cell 7 3.711 V
  MAS04656   Cell 8 3.714 V
  MAS04657   Cell 9 3.712 V
  MAS04658   Cell 10 3.711 V
  MAS04659   Cell 11 3.711 V
  MAS04660   Cell 12 3.712 V
  MAS04661   Cell 13 3.712 V
  MAS04662   Cell 14 3.714 V
  MAS04663   Cell 15 3.714 V
  MAS04664   Cell 16 3.712 V
  MAS04665   Cell 17 3.712 V
  MAS04666   Cell 18 3.712 V
  MAS04667   Cell 19 3.711 V
  MAS04668   Cell 20 3.712 V
  MAS04669   Cell 21 3.711 V
  MAS04670   Cell 22 3.711 V
  MAS04671   Cell 23 3.714 V
  MAS04672   Cell 24 3.711 V
  MAS04673   Cell 25 3.712 V
  MAS04674   Cell 26 3.712 V
  MAS04675   Cell 27 3.712 V
  MAS04676   Cell 28 3.712 V
  MAS04677   Cell 29 3.714 V
  MAS04678   Cell 30 3.714 V
  MAS04679   Cell 31 3.712 V
  MAS04680   Cell 32 3.714 V
  MAS04681   Cell 33 3.714 V
  MAS04682   Cell 34 3.711 V
  MAS04683   Cell 35 3.712 V
  MAS04684   Cell 36 3.712 V
  MAS04685   Cell 37 3.711 V
  MAS04686   Cell 38 3.711 V
  MAS04687   Cell 39 3.712 V
  MAS04688   Cell 41 3.711 V
  MAS04689   Cell 42 3.711 V
  MAS04690   Cell 43 3.712 V
  MAS04691   Cell 44 3.714 V
  MAS04692   Cell 45 3.714 V
  MAS04693   Cell 46 3.714 V
  MAS04694   Cell 47 3.711 V
  MAS04695   Cell 48 3.712 V
  MAS04696   Cell 49 3.711 V
  MAS04697   Cell 50 3.712 V
  MAS04698   Cell 51 3.711 V
  MAS04699   Cell 52 3.711 V
  MAS04700   Cell 53 3.711 V
  MAS04701   Cell 54 3.711 V
  MAS04702   Cell 55 3.711 V
  MAS04703   Cell 56 3.711 V
  MAS04704   Cell 57 3.712 V
  MAS04705   Cell 58 3.711 V
  MAS04706   Cell 59 3.711 V
  MAS04707   Cell 60 3.711 V
  MAS04708   Cell 61 3.711 V
  MAS04709   Cell 62 3.711 V
  MAS04710   Cell 63 3.711 V
  MAS04711   Cell 64 3.711 V
  MAS04712   Cell 65 3.711 V
  MAS04713   Cell 66 3.712 V
  MAS04714   Cell 67 3.711 V
  MAS04715   Cell 68 3.712 V
  MAS04716   Cell 69 3.711 V
  MAS04717   Cell 70 3.711 V
  MAS04718   Cell 71 3.711 V
  MAS04719   Cell 72 3.711 V
  MAS04720   Cell 40 3.712 V
  MAS06746   Temperature sensor 9 15.391 °C
  MAS06747   Temperature sensor 10 15.188 °C
  MAS06748   Temperature sensor 11 15.297 °C
  MAS06749   Temperature sensor 12 15.188 °C
  MAS06750   Temperature sensor 13 14.891 °C
  MAS06751   Temperature sensor 14 14.891 °C
  MAS06752   Temperature sensor 15 15.094 °C
  MAS06753   Temperature sensor 16 15.094 °C
  MAS06754   Positive voltage of high volt battery before protection 189.125 V
  MAS06755   Negative voltage of high volt battery before protection -189.188 V
  MAS06761   Sum of voltage of all battery cells 378.594 V
  MAS07429   Status loader positive terminal Open
  MAS07430   Status loader negative terminal Open
  MAS07735   Cell 73 3.709 V
  MAS07736   Cell 74 3.712 V
  MAS07737   Cell 75 3.714 V
  MAS07738   Cell 76 3.712 V
  MAS07739   Cell 77 3.712 V
  MAS07740   Cell 78 3.711 V
  MAS07741   Cell 79 3.711 V
  MAS07742   Cell 80 3.711 V
  MAS07743   Cell 81 3.711 V
  MAS07744   Cell 82 3.708 V
  MAS07745   Cell 83 3.712 V
  MAS07746   Cell 84 3.711 V
  MAS07747   Cell 85 3.711 V
  MAS07748   Cell 86 3.712 V
  MAS07749   Cell 87 3.712 V
  MAS07750   Cell 88 3.711 V
  MAS07751   Cell 89 3.712 V
  MAS07752   Cell 90 3.712 V
  MAS07753   Cell 91 3.711 V
  MAS07754   Cell 92 3.712 V
  MAS07755   Cell 93 3.711 V
  MAS07756   Cell 94 3.711 V
  MAS07757   Cell 95 3.712 V
  MAS07758   Cell 96 3.712 V
  MAS07759   Cell 97 3.712 V
  MAS07760   Cell 98 3.714 V
  MAS07761   Cell 99 3.711 V
  MAS07762   Cell 100 3.712 V
  MAS07763   Cell 101 3.711 V
  MAS07764   Cell 102 3.711 V
  MAS07773   Temperature sensor 17 14.891 °C
  MAS07792   Expanded battery limits not active
  MAS07798   Status pre-loader Open
  MAS07826   Request emergency discharge HV intermittent circuit condenser not active
  MAS07827   Mode HV battery actual value HV
  MAS09283   HV interlock detector voltage 0.490 V
  MAS09284   HV interlock source voltage 2.112 V
  MAS09285   HV interlock detector current 10.504 mA
  MAS09286   HV interlock source current 10.377 mA
 
   #11  

Uwe

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OK, I don't see anything in there that would let one make any assessments of the capacity.

Easy for an individual cell (even a pack), but much more difficult with a car, too many factors influence the consumption.
Yep, one would have to put a known, steady load on it.... Or one would have to see how many kWh the battery can actually produce in a complete discharge cycle from 100% to 0% state of charge and compare this to the (usable) rating of the battery. Maybe this could be done by watching IDE01036-MAS01378 ? You might take a look at that during some normal use of the car to see if the values there make sense. For example, drive the car from its current 59.6% down to 49.6% SoC and see if the -9951.39 kWh increases by about 10% of the battery's capacity.

-Uwe-
 
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