2013 T5 - No crank situation

   #1  

elqwan

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Hi, I need a bit of help. For about 2 months I had intermittent starting in my 2013 T5 2.0 Diesel (Manual Trans). Sometimes it would start after a couple tries of turning the key and sometimes nothing after 30. If I roll started it, it would fire up and usually after that it would start every time until the next day, or sometimes it would be fine for a week. I was very busy and didnt have time to diagnose the system. I just assumed it was the starter, so when it wouldnt start I would tap on the solenoid and it would start. Then after some time even tapping on the starter did nothing and I could only roll start it. So I thought I needed a new starter. So like a part changer I dropped the new starter in and nothing. So with a bit a of time, I checked power to the control wire and I had no voltage. Then I did a voltage drop test and everything was fine. Checked all grounds and all was fine. Finally today I pulled the battery and checked all of the relays under the battery as well as every fuse in the van. Every relay and fuse was fine except for one 5 amp fuse under the center consul. Well the fuse its fine but I dont have any power going to it, regardless of key on or key off. Not enough to lite a test light. I cant get a hold of a wiring diagram or a fuse box diagram to even know what this fuse is for. Maybe it is not supposed to have 12 volts, I am not sure.

So at this point I am not sure what my next step is I should add I have hooked up a jumper wire from the starter solenoid and that is how I have been starting the van for the last two weeks, just touch it to the positive side of the battery and it fires right up.

So obviously an important indication is that I dont have power going to the control wire, but every relay and fuse tests fine other than that one 5 amp fuse.

Is the starter control wire connected to the ignition switch?

Perhaps there is a relay panel I am not seeing. I have checked the relays under the battery and the relay under the driver seat. Is there one more panel I am missing?

Thanks for any help.

Paul
 
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   #2  

PetrolDave

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A full unedited VCDS Auto-Scan would be helpful...
 
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   #4  

elqwan

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Yup, I will get that to you asap. Thanks
Code:
Sunday,04,April,2021,20:59:07:28823
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 8.1 x64
VCDS Version: 21.3.0.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4543.4
Data version: 20210226 DS325.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV2ZZZ7HZEH048748   License Plate: IM907HU
Mileage: 222120km-138018mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 7H-VN75 (6N0)
Scan: 01 03 04 08 09 15 17 18 19 22 25 56 61 69 0B

VIN: WV2ZZZ7HZEH048748   Mileage: 222120km-138018miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 1010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 1010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: Malfunction 0010
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
18-Aux. Heat -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
22-AWD -- Status: Sporadic communication error 1000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010
61-Battery Regul. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
69-Trailer -- Status: Malfunction 0010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CAAC)       Labels:. 03L-906-022-CAA.clb
   Part No SW: 03L 906 019 GR    HW: 03L 907 309 L
   Component: R4 2,0L EDC   X38 5591 
   Revision: 22X38---    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 0119401A233601080000
   Shop #: WSC 92521 052 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906019GR 003003
   ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906019FH_003.rod
   VCID: 015E7C50018E037380D-8054

3 Faults Found:
7144 - Please Check DTC Memory in CAN Gateway (J533)
          U1008 00 [044] - -
          [Diagnostic interface for data busRead out DTC]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 9
                    Mileage: 219940 km
                    Date: 2021.03.16
                    Time: 15:50:53

                    Engine RPM: 2302.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 6.7 %
                    Vehicle speed: 51 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 16 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 10 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 930 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.240 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    ACC specified acceleration: 0.000 m/s²
                    ACC control module: received status-Bits 0-7: 6
                    Active brake system error status-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Status of ACC/CCS acceleration interface-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Acceleration: 0.004 m/s²
                    Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
                    Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3

5456 - Starter Will Not Turn
          P3054 00 [109] - Jammed or Electrical Malfunction
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Mileage: 219939 km
                    Date: 2021.03.16
                    Time: 15:36:01

                    Engine RPM: 0.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 0.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 13 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 4 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 920 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.060 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Starter control: terminal 50 feedback-Bits 0-7: 51
                    Starter control: relay 1-Bits 0-7: 3
                    Starter control: release conditions-Bits 0-7: 2
                    Starter control: release conditions-Bits 0-7: 90
                    Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of manual engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of manual engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of manual engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of manual engine starts-Bits 0-7: 200
                    Number of automatic engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of automatic engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of automatic engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of automatic engine starts-Bits 0-7: 200

11913 - Start/Stop System; Maximum Time for Restart Exceeded
          P167E 00 [109] - -
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 220434 km
                    Date: 2021.03.23
                    Time: 12:41:45

                    Engine RPM: 0.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 0.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 12 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 15 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 810 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.480 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Starter control: terminal 50 feedback-Bits 0-7: 50
                    Starter control: relay 1-Bits 0-7: 3
                    Starter control: release conditions-Bits 0-7: 6
                    Starter control: release conditions-Bits 0-7: 122
                    Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Starter control: shut-off conditions 1-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of manual engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of manual engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of manual engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of manual engine starts-Bits 0-7: 240
                    Number of automatic engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of automatic engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of automatic engine starts-Bits 0-7: 0
                    Number of automatic engine starts-Bits 0-7: 201

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (-----)       Labels: 7E0-907-37x-MK25AXT.clb
   Part No SW: 7E0 907 379 K    HW: 7E0 907 379 E
   Component: ESP MK25A XT  H43 0110 
   Revision: 00H43001   
   Coding: 208724AD11A8049D24A988756A6690
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 49152
   VCID: 3A2CCBBC2C5890AB817-806E

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101101
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 217887 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.07.30
                    Time: 00:01:25

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 32960
                    Count: 4353
                    Count: 8193
                    Count: 514

01324 - Control Module for All Wheel Drive (J492)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.15
                    Time: 10:48:01

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 32768
                    Count: 1
                    Count: 8202
                    Count: 766


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels:| 7E5-907-040.clb
   Part No SW: 7E5 907 040 AF    HW: 7E5 907 040 AF
   Component: ClimatronicT5 H19 0407 
   Revision: 00001004   
   Coding: 0000000103
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ClimatronicT5 A01003
   ROD: EV_ClimaAutoT5Basis.rod
   VCID: 6C803DE4160CFE1B43B-8038

   Slave 1:

5 Faults Found:
13701376 - Function Restricted due to Missing Message(s)
          U1111 00 [008] - -
          [Motorsteuergerät - kein Signal/Kommunikation]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Date: 2021.03.24
                    Time: 10:49:56

13701392 - Function Restricted due to Missing Message(s)
          U1111 00 [008] - -
          [Bremsensteuergerät - kein Signal/Kommunikation]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Date: 2021.03.24
                    Time: 10:49:56

9481200 - Refrigerant Pressure
          B10AB F0 [009] - Too Low
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 195
                    Mileage: 198681 km
                    Date: 2020.07.31
                    Time: 19:22:13

9481988 - Air Quality Sensor
          B10AF 04 [008] - Internal System Fault
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 10
                    Reset counter: 241
                    Mileage: 219922 km
                    Date: 2021.03.16
                    Time: 10:35:15

9480705 - Local Databus
          U1030 00 [009] - Electrical Malfunction
          [LIN-Bus - elektrischer Fehler]
          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 254
                    Reset counter: 218
                    Mileage: 197649 km
                    Date: 2020.07.14
                    Time: 18:56:38


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 7H0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 7H0 937 090 B    HW: 7H0 937 090
   Component: BCM PQ25 Max4 H74 0712 
   Revision: B9074001    Serial number: 0571 280130484
   Coding: E0A0303A0A212032002009702E2B8CD40780612F7E044C41320000020000
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 00000
   VCID: 2D06F0E0ED163713145-8078

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 801 H    HW: 7E0 959 801 H  Labels: 7E0-959-80X-V2.CLB
   Component: J386__TSG_FT  003 8652
   Serial number: KU0KU001101300012473
   Coding: 0400A0

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 802 H    HW: 7E0 959 802 H  Labels: 7E0-959-80X-V2.CLB
   Component: J387__TSG_BT  003 8652
   Serial number: KU0KU025091300013209
   Coding: 1400A0

4 Faults Found:
03430 - Terminal 30 for Turn Signals and Brake Lights
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Time Indication: 0

00532 - Supply Voltage B+
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 238
                    Mileage: 220263 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.11
                    Time: 00:56:55

00446 - Function Limitation due to Under-Voltage
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 8
                    Reset counter: 242
                    Mileage: 220263 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.11
                    Time: 03:14:39

01502 - Bulb for Rear Fog; Left (L46)
            010 - Open or Short to Plus
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101010
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 183
                    Mileage: 198043 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2014.12.22
                    Time: 11:02:58


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 7E0 959 655 B    HW: 7E0 959 655 B
   Component: VW10Airbag003 H07 0013 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 003HL00KVMPA
   Coding: 000000000000000000000000000000003033
   Shop #: WSC 02754 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750 A01026
   ROD: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750_VN75.rod
   VCID: 3536D88005C67FD36C5-8060

1 Fault Found:
12656896 - Databus
          U1122 00 [008] - Implausible Message
          [Bremse8 Time Out Error]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Date: 2021.03.24
                    Time: 10:49:55


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
   Part No SW: 7E0 920 860 J    HW: 7E0 920 860 J
   Component: KOMBI         H04 0709 
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 160201
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04723
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW36.rod
   VCID: 2F3AEAE8E79A4503269-807A

3 Faults Found:
12648448 - Function Restricted due to Missing Message(s)
          U1111 00 [008] - -
          [Steuergerät für Motor: keine Kommunikation]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Date: 2021.03.24
                    Time: 10:49:55

12656896 - Function Restricted due to Missing Message(s)
          U1111 00 [008] - -
          [Steuergerät für Bremse: keine Kommunikation]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Date: 2021.03.24
                    Time: 10:49:55

12653568 - Function Restricted due to Missing Message(s)
          U1111 00 [008] - -
          [Steuergerät für Allrad: keine Kommunikation]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Date: 2021.03.24
                    Time: 10:48:00


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 18: Aux. Heat        Labels: None
   Part No: 7E0 815 071 C
   Component: J737__Standheizung  0605 
   Revision: 00087000    Serial number: 09024900A00000
   Coding: 0020031
   Shop #: WSC 02757 790 00000
   VCID: 251608C0B9E60F53DC5-8070

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
   Part No SW: 6N0 909 901     HW: 7H0 937 090
   Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H74 0712 
   Revision: B9074001   
   Coding: 042200
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 00000
   VCID: 70B829943AA41AFB7F3-8024

3 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.15
                    Time: 10:49:56

01316 - ABS Control Module
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.15
                    Time: 10:49:56

01324 - Control Module for All Wheel Drive (J492)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.15
                    Time: 10:47:60


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD        Labels: 0AY-907-554-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 09N 907 554 B    HW: 09N 907 554 B
   Component: Haldex 4Motion      6008 
   Coding: 0000009
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 00000
   VCID: 372AD288134A8DC37E9-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234
   Component: IMMO          H04 0709 
   Serial number:               
   Coding: 000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03710
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW21.rod
   VCID: 6A8C3BFC1CF8E02B317-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 5M0 035 186 J    HW: 5M0 035 186 J
   Component: Radio RCD310  042 0082 
   Revision: 01000001    Serial number: VWZ1Z2N1663931
   Coding: 05000400040014
   Shop #: WSC 02754 790 00000
   VCID: 3332E6980B3261E3421-8066

3 Faults Found:
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.15
                    Time: 10:50:01

00856 - Radio Antenna
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 179
                    Mileage: 217870 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.07.29
                    Time: 16:56:28

03138 - Input AUX IN
            011 - Open Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 178
                    Mileage: 197649 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2014.12.05
                    Time: 18:56:42


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 61: Battery Regul. (J840)       Labels:. 1K0-907-534.clb
   Part No SW: 7H0 907 534     HW: 7H0 937 090
   Component: Batt.regelung H74 0712 
   Serial number: 0571 280130484
   Coding: 330B1A73
   Shop #: WSC 02757 790 00000
   VCID: 6B823EF81382F9234A1-803E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 7E0 915 181 B    HW: 7E0 915 181 B
   Component: J367-BDM  H08 0181
   Serial number: 60259J55452221053927

1 Fault Found:
02252 - Generator
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 178
                    Mileage: 197649 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2014.12.05
                    Time: 18:57:37


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 69: Trailer (J345)       Labels:. 1K0-907-383-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 383 G    HW: 1K0 907 383 G
   Component: Anhaenger     H10 0110 
   Revision: 3B001001    Serial number: 00000194340040
   Coding: 410D000101000000
   Shop #: WSC 02756 790 00000
   VCID: 313EEC90F12E53F330D-8064

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.15
                    Time: 10:49:57

01316 - ABS Control Module
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 240
                    Mileage: 220589 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.08.15
                    Time: 10:49:57


End----(Elapsed Time: 01:35, VBatt start/end: 11.8V/11.8V. VIgn 11.9V)-----
 
   #5  

Uwe

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Is the starter control wire connected to the ignition switch?

Perhaps there is a relay panel I am not seeing. I have checked the relays under the battery and the relay under the driver seat. Is there one more panel I am missing?
I would urge you to get a short (24h or less) subscription to erWin and download the wiring diagrams for your particular van. You should be able to get "component locations" as well as a lot of other useful info. Please see:


-Uwe-
 
   #6  

elqwan

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Thanks, I will do that. How does it work exactly? If I purchase a one hour subscription to flat rate ( I am on the Erwin.de site). Does that flat rate give me access to everything? It does not ask for my vehicle information, so how do i know what I am getting? Or can I select once I buy the flat rate?

Thank you

Paul
 
Last edited:
   #7  

elqwan

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Never mind, I figured it out. I purchased a 1 hour flat rate and I am able to download every document. Only thing that I could not find was a downloadable or printable wiring diagram. Does anyone know how I can get a hold of a wiring diagram?
 
Last edited:
   #10  

VWT6

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It doesnt work anymore. It worked about 2 weeks ago but i just get a 404 error message now
Still works for me - just ( 1 min ago) tried again. E.g. using an adblocker blocks you out.
 
   #11  

elqwan

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Not sure, I didnt change anything in my settings and from one day to the next it didnt work. EDIT (deleted cookies for that website and now it works) What I would like to see is a wiring schematic where it actually shows an entire wiring route. I downloaded every document ERWIN had to offer but it still doesnt show somethings, such as the wiring schematic for the ignition switch.
I want to test to if i have an issue with the crank side of the switch. I am not sure if there is a ground side on the switch or if its just power and control wires. Cause then I could try jumping the switch and see if it cranks. Cause at this point I am not really sure where to look. Seems like the main problem is that I am not getting power to the starter control wire.
All the relays are good as far as I can tell from testing each one. But perhaps I need to check if there is actually power getting to the starter relay. Seems like the most efficient way would be to jump the ignition switch.
I am also trying to find if there is a clutch switch/neutral safety switch, but I cant find that in any of the docs I downloaded. Perhaps that switch is not activating causing the no crank.
 
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elqwan

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Please confirm I am reading this schematic correctly and my testing procedure makes sense. In the schematic it shows the black 50 wire is coming from the ignition switch D (inside), which then connects to the SB23 fuse then goes into the engine compartment connecting to a red 50 wire which then eventually goes to the S terminal on the solenoid.

So If I go directly to the ignition switch and put power to the black 50 wire, it should crank over the engine as long as all the relays and fuses are intact. Which should then tell me that I have an ignition switch problem.

Does this sound logical?





 
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Uwe

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I am reading this schematic correctly and my testing procedure makes sense.
I think one would need to see more of the diagram than just the snippet you posted to really make sense of it. If it's as you describe, then how the heck does the J207 Starter Inhibitor Relay perform its named function?

-Uwe-
 
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elqwan

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Hi, Yes I agree. I will be honest this is all pretty new to me, so I am learning as I go here. Just trying to narrow down one thing after another through testing, so when I finally do figure out the cause of my starting issue I will know all of the procedures. Anyway. Here is the previous diagram but showing the entire schematic. If I should be also showing another schematic to help in this process please let me know.

Thanks
Paul
 
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elqwan

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I also have this screenshot from when I bought the erWIN subscription. Except this part I was able to find under the "workshop" section. Not sure if that is actually what it is called but you can search more specific. This shows a bit more detail. I am not sure why but the downloadable files on erWIN dont give you all possibilities. But maybe this screenshot gives us more usable information.
 
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dnoermann

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I downloaded every document ERWIN had to offer but it still doesnt show somethings, such as the wiring schematic for the ignition switch.
Hallo Paul.

So than you must have the following PDF in your language:
This one is mine in German: K0058984400-Grundausstattung__ab_August_2009.pdf (2570 Pages)

There is everything inside of every option and all changes that where done over the years.
You have a CAAC 2013, looking into your VIN shows me: WV2ZZZ7HZEH048748 it was Build in Model Year E ==> 2014 meaning Build between middle of 2013 till middle of 2014
And you have Start/Stop.

Than this one is the correct page for your Engine:
2,0-l-Dieselmotor mit Start-Stopp-System , CAAA,CAAB,CAAC,CAAD,CAAE,CCHA,CCHB
ab November 2012
That is Page 1665 in the german Document.

Look this Rosstech Tutorial to understand the Diagram:
And in that Wirings are always different options in Parallen showed, you need to red the Text on the * *2 *3 and so on, do find your option.

Your Screenshots are from wrong part of Shematic because it is from earlier Year and without Start/Stop !
I did not compare the difference but let me tell you what i see on Page 1665 and followings
And on Page 1680 you see Ignition and all the relais involved in Starter ....

Turning ignition only tells Engine ECU that you turned Key :)
ECU than will close relais J433 and J434 if conditions are met.
Like for example, you need to have your food on the Clutch pedal ...
Than Klemme 15 is on Pin 3 of J434 goes to Pin5 to Pin3 J433 to Pin 5 red wire 4mm² to red wire 2,5mm² over connector T10l pin 1 to Starter Pin 50
 
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elqwan

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Yes you are correct, thank you for pointing this out. I actually have been looking at the correct diagram on my computer but I think I got a bit lost with all of the screenshots i took. I will repost the correct WD now. And thank you for posting that WD video. I think I have a better understanding now how to follow the WD. When I get a bit of free time, I will just double check that I am getting power to the starter relays, because I have confirmed that all of the relays are functioning by powering them and checking continuity. All of the fuses are working except one 5 amp fuse which doesnt seem to be getting any power, the diagram shows that fuse is for the following:

Fuse 35 on fuse holder B -SB35-
Connection (58s) in roof wiring harness Connection 1, (58d) in main wiring harness Connection 2 (58d) in main wiring harness Connection 3 (58d) in the main wiring harness Connection, (58b) in the driver side door wiring harness

Either way, I will pull the fuse box and just check the connection on the back side of the box.

 
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elqwan

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A small update. I only had about 20 minutes to mess around. I confirmed that all the wires from my ignition switch are getting power when they should. Black 50 wire gets power only when I turn it to start position.

Next I checked the relay carrier (Relay carrier (2) cockpit (8-pin) from May 2012) under the dash behind Fuse Holder B.

I have 2 relays, Starter motor relay J53 - 643 and Terminal 15 Voltage supply relay J329 - 643.

I checked relay J329 643 and I get two 12V sources, one with key off and one with key on.
Relay J53 643 has 12 volts with key on and it activates a ground when I turn the key to start.

So in short I believe all of those relays are working how they should and getting power or ground as they are supposed to.

- So here is what I know so far.
- My starter functions properly
- Starter is getting good ground and 12 volt
- Ignition switch is operating properly
- All relays are working properly
- Interior relays are getting proper power or ground
- All interior fuses are working except Fuse SB35 (Fuse holder B) - Not getting power

- I am not getting 12 volt power to the start control wire 50


Next Steps:
- Tomorrow I will check that all the relays in the engine compartment are getting proper power or ground.
- I have a tone generator coming tomorrow to see if I have an open on wire 50 (control wire to the starter)


Questions: -

1. If there was an open in the starter wire or any other wire would VCDS tell me this information?

2. Since I can't remember, am I only able to start the van if the clutch is engaged or can I have it in Neutral and start it without the clutch engaged? Then I know if the no crank has anything to do with the clutch position sensor G476.
 
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NZDubNurd

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A little trick I like for intermittent starter issues, is to wire a buzzer to the starter signal wire, at the starter. (Or a horn... that makes in fun in parking lots :D)

When you try to crank, 12V present should activate the buzzer (and the starter, theoretically!) It doesn't guarantee the wire can provide the current required, but it would suggest the system functions. I guess you could get creative and move it up through the system

I don't know about T5's, but MK5 TDI golfs are known for chaffing wires, or flexing the loom and breaking wires when the loom comes off the front chassis rail to the engine. The shitty engine mounts VW use don't help, as they wear so fast the engine can jump about quite a lot. It seems to be the starter wire that breaks often.
 
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