Direct TPMS for MQB Leon

[stefan147]

So since ACC+Lane Assist are almost done, I'm in search of the next retrofit quest and that would be direct TPMS. Seems easy, quite cheap and I also plan to change my tires within the next 1-2 months so the timing is right for the sensors to be fitted at the same time.

As always I will choose the hard way and that is the TPMS system that can display tire temperature as well as air pressure. To my knowledge this kind of TPMS is used on a few MQB cars such as the TTRS 8S and the RS3 8V. The part no for this module is 8S0907273 and it works with the same tire sensors as almost any other VAG module (5Q0907275B). A parameter file for the 8S already exists and everything seems compatible up to this point. Only problem is that my tire size is 235/35/19 and the TT is fitted with 245/35/19. How much of a problem is that?

The easy way would be to fit the 5Q0907273B module which is tested and works fine with the Leon but it only shows air pressure and I would prefer to have more info than that.

 

[langers2k]

Are you sure the heaudnit/cluster can display tyre temperature?

I only ask as I don't think I've ever seen a MQB Leon/Golf/Octavia or similar with tyre temperature shown. Only ever tyre pressure...

Happy to be corrected

 

[Ronaldo]

As far as I know, Leon (and Golf, Passat, Tiguan as well) display only tire pressures on the cluster or on the MMI screen. Along with current pressures, they display the standard pressures as specified in a preset table, selectable by the driver. The table is stored in the module (5Q0907273) through parameterization and sent to the MMI in a set of CAN bus messages. The 8S0907273 TPMS module, on the other hand, doesn't have a tire pressure table and stores the current pressures as standard upon a "reset" command operated through the MMI TPMS menu. Cars that use such module (Audi A3, S3, RS3, TT) have a TPMS screen with fields for tire temperatures, but no selection menu or fields for standard pressure.
Both 5Q0 and 8S0 modules receive and handle temperatures sent from the valve sensors (you can check temperatures in both modules with VCDS Advanced Measuring Values feature) but only 8S0 transmits the temperature data through CAN bus messages. 5Q0 also stores temperatures in its memory even though it doesn't transmit them, probably because temperature changes can cause changes on pressure, so taking temperature drops in account could avoid false pressure drop alerts.

I've seen a few cases of people who installed a 5Q0 in a car that is supposed to use a 8S0 module and it worked, displaying only the pressure fields (temperature fields filled with dashes) but I'm not sure the other way around is possible since there may be issues with CAN bus message set compatibility. I'm saying this because even though the 8S0 is intended to be used in the A3, S3, RS3 line, it only works with the MIB2 multimedia units and makes the TPMS screen to shut down if used with a MIB1.

 

[stefan147]

Thanks for your answers guys. First of all the car has a virtual cockpit and a MIB2 Navi STD. The idea is this: what's the worst thing that can happen if I install the 8S module? Not get the temperature values and get dashes instead? I' m OK with that as long as air pressure is displayed correctly.

What troubles me the most is the tire size. It's not very common and I don't know if the existing parameters in the other tool will be OK. How can this affect the sensor's measurements?

 

[Ronaldo]

Well, I think the worst thing would be having nothing displayed at all. The TPMS system would still work partially because pressure loss and flat tire warnings are sent through a single standard CAN bus message that is the same for all modules in the MQB platform, but it only carries binary flags, no numeric pressure or temperature values. These data are sent through a set of extended CAN bus messages that also follow a standard, but contain a set of flags that define how data is displayed on the MMI. Flags sent by 8S0 make the A3 MIB1 TPMS screen to shut down. I think the best thing to do is trying to find another car with same MIB2 unit as yours and the 8S0 module installed so you can confirm it works.
Tire sizes are no problem for the 8S0 since it stores whatever pressures you put in your tires and make them the standard when you click on the "reset". But if your multimedia system requires the 5Q0 with the tire pressure table, there are tools available freely on the web to create your custom parameter file then you can load it on the module if you have the tools to do that.

 

[stefan147]

I see what you mean. It's quite a risk. About 80-100€ risk but I think it's worth a shot. TTRS & RS3 still use the same MIBs (more or less) as other MQB cars so it wouldn't surprise me if the 8S is compatible with my Leon. Then again I might be totally wrong.

In the adaptation list of my 5F I see these channels:

ENG122229-ENG117704-Car_Function_List_BAP_Gen2-tire_pressure_system_0x07,activated ,64
ENG122229-ENG117705-Car_Function_List_BAP_Gen2-tire_pressure_system_0x07_msg_bus,Terminal 15 ,64

ENG122227-ENG117541-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_rdk,activated ,60

ENG122227-ENG117545-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_rdk_after_disclaimer,not activated ,60 ENG122227-ENG117542-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_rdk_clamp_15_off,not activated ,60 ENG122227-ENG117543-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_rdk_over_threshold_high,activated ,60 ENG122227-ENG117544-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_rdk_standstill,not activated ,60

If I find the admaps of a TTRS or RS3with TPMS and I see the exact same channels description, does this mean that my 5F can display the same as well or am I oversimplifying things?

As for the tool to make custom parameters I have seem them and I will use it if I go with the 5Q0 solution.

 

[Ronaldo]

Your adaptation settings look the same as is usually configured in other cars with different MIB units (including mine) so I'm afraid an admap from a TTRS or RS3 won't help much. I think your car probably uses the display format that doesn't include tire temperatures because I remember seeing a retrofit guide for the Seat Leon and the screen displayed current pressures along with standard pressures and the module installed was a 5Q0, but I'm not sure it remains true for newer cars with MIB2 (text is in Spanish but there are pictures and part numbers):

BRICO - instalar control presion de neumaticos directo TMPS

Hola a todos , os dejo otro brico para coches plataforma MQB , es muy facil ya que solo tiene 4 cables ( positivo , masa , linea can extended ). Se trata del control de presion de neumaticos , actualmente de fabrica sale con este sistema de forma indirecta a traves de los sensores ABS , cuando...

www.areavag.com

 

[ghost]

I’ve tried few different modules from Audi in myG7.5. Non of them display anything on dash. Only VW module displays pressure. But... thats just in my car

 

[stefan147]

Hmm that's bad news. My Cupra is MY19 so it's pretty much identical to Golf7.5. I guess I'll have to go with the safe road of the 5Q0 module and if I find a cheap 8S0 I may get it just for testing. I plan to mount the module in the spare wheel area so fitting and testing one will be very very easy.

 

[ghost]

Ive tried 8s0 on mine. Didn’t work

 

[darkchina811]

I plan to mount the module in the spare wheel area so fitting and testing one will be very very easy.

mark my words: the TMPS module HAS TO BE installed outside of the body of the car, or it won't work properly. more in depth, it has to be close to the rear left wheel. I installed mine pretty much where the Xagico PDF says to. I would suggest you do the same.

 

[stefan147]

Rear right wheel (passenger side) I think is the correct position. I intend on mounting it in the spare wheel area and if it fails I'll transfer it outside the car as per factory. One way or another I will also retrofit BSM within the next months so transferring the TMPS module will not be a problem.

This guy here has also put it in the spare wheel area but I don't know how it behaved in the long term.

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/824924-Direct-TPMS-Retrofit-Guide

 

[ghost]

Works fine in spare wheel location

 

[darkchina811]

good to know, thanks!

 

[Ronaldo]

mark my words: the TMPS module HAS TO BE installed outside of the body of the car, or it won't work properly. more in depth, it has to be close to the rear left wheel. I installed mine pretty much where the Xagico PDF says to. I would suggest you do the same.

I've tested TPMS receivers in many different (sometimes weird) locations and it seems that it does matter where it's placed, especially in it's ability to receive the signal from the front wheels. Probably the car body acts as an obstacle. But it will work anyway. Mine is currently installed in the trunk, on the right side wheel housing, and that's the best place I've found up to now, with no failures at all. But I've also tested it in places like the left side of the trunk, taped to the surface of the bumper or on the front passenger seat (measurements displayed are swapped, front sensors are displayed as rear and vice-versa) and it worked too. Anyway, now that I'm no longer making tests with my TPMS message filter and I don't need to connect, disconnect, replace TPMS receivers anymore, maybe I'll finally install the receiver in the "official" location.

 

[darkchina811]

good to know man, thanks.

I followed Xagico guide so I never experimented, I just put it there and it has worked ever since.
I remember reading around forums that it must be there but I now rather believe you.

 

[ghost]

My first TPMS module i places just by CAN Gateway, above the pedals (RHD car) That was purely my laziness lol. As long as you adapt each wheel sensor ID in correct channel you will be fine.

 

[stefan147]

Didn't want to open a separate topic so I will launch the question here.

I want my VC to display compass, time and temperature like this and I can' t find how.

All I can get is this kind of display.

I this something doable or is it a matter of firmware?

Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5G0-920-XXX-17.clb-SRI3
   Part No SW: 5F0 920 790 A    HW: 5F0 920 790 A
   Component: KOMBI         609 1701 
   Coding: 04AC29083B800008010876001001000080000000
   Shop #: WSC 00049 770 00185
   ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBA0 001026
   ROD: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBA0_SE37.rod
   VCID: 270A0E4A1F61A013339-8072

No fault code found.

 

[downtime]

Try this :

04AC29083B800008010076001001000080000000

Byte 9 bit 3 unchecked. Display compass position bottom instead of top

Also there's tube variant adaptation channel in the instrument cluster, changing that also changes some of the display elements.

 

[stefan147]

I've tried that bit and nothing changes. I' ll try the adaptation you suggest and see what happens. Tx

Checked again...nothing at all.