VW POLO V (6R) 1.2 TSI 2014 Energy Management problems

   #1  

Segil

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Hi guys! I need your help...

History;

Customer complains of bad battery, battery and later alternator gets replaced. Problems persist.

I get the car and do battery coding, seems to work fine. Customer comes back; AC, Radio and Start/Stop not working. After some investigating I see that the car goes into “Energy Management” and turns off everything not essential to save power. I check LIN-Communication with alternator and battery. Intermittent faults of “U141100 Battery terminal recognition Open circuit“. I replaced the LIN-cable between current-sensor/alternator/databox under the dash. No more U141100-errors. Energy saving problem persists.

I remove the (new) alternator and send it to my supplier for checking, they test it (and LIN-communication) and it turns out fine.

Battery management is handled by the CAN-gateway and not a separate BMS. The only thing I now see that does not make sense is that the “IDE01855 Generator Current” value is constantly under reporting with a factor of 1.5-3x. So, for example, If the value is 9A it's actually (measured with a clamp meter) 21A.

The IDE01855-value does not seem to come from the alternator as it does not immediately “disappear” if I disconnect the alternator. It updates for a minute or so, and then disappears.

I see some hints of the possibility to do adaptations of the alternator load, but I can not find such adaptation. I also see some “generator” parameters in the long coding of the CAN-gateway, but no documentation.

My adoption of the battery capacity also seems to “go away” after some time and changes to 73Ah.

Does anyone have any idea?

Best Regards!

/V

Link to picture of PR-Code https://mega.nz/file/mFcFAYbI#JaAhI_ZTD8Xr_Wn0YX0mojh9rXOKBTgIIQaxZdbeMac

AUTO-Scan:

Code:
VIN: WVWZZZ6RZFY1695XX   License Plate: POLON-AUTOSCAN
Mileage: 74765km-46456mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 6R-VW26 (6C0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 10 13 15 17 19 44 5F

VIN: WVWZZZ6RZFY1695XX   Mileage: 74765km-46456miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
13-Auto Dist. Reg -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CJZC)       Labels:. 04E-907-309-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 04E 906 027 BB    HW: 04E 907 309 AF
   Component: 1.2l R4 TSI   H21 8228 
   Revision: R5H21---   
   Coding: 01250032232411080000
   Shop #: WSC 45919 002 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM12TFS01104E906027BB 001006
   ROD: EV_ECM12TFS01104E906027BB.rod
   VCID: 65826D5F64F81DAE80-8030

   CAN Converter 01:

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J743)       Labels: 0CW-927-769.clb
   Part No SW: 0CW 300 046 G    HW: 0AM 927 769 K
   Component: GSG DQ200-MQB H43 5207 
   Revision: 00043014    Serial number: CU501409147477
   Coding: 0014
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMDQ200021 001001
   ROD: EV_TCMDQ200021_VW26.rod
   VCID: 3E30E233A1EE6E7621-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 6R0-907-37x-ESP90.clb
   Part No SW: 6C0 907 379 G    HW: 6R0 907 379 BA
   Component: ESP9.0i       H03 0003 
   Serial number: 08501474140717
   Coding: 21DD2885892933C9111910700056841491CC88080005CBF98F00
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Brake1ESP90iBOSCHPQ26 100018
   ROD: EV_Brake1ESP90iBOSCHPQ26.rod
   VCID: 3326C3079AACB31EDE-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels:| 6C0-907-044.clb
   Part No SW: 6C0 907 044 A    HW: 6C0 907 044 A
   Component: Climatronic   H02 0104 
   Serial number:  1409172A-0409
   Coding: 200000001001100001
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ACClimaValeoPQ26 003001
   ROD: EV_ACClimaValeoPQ26_001_SK26.rod
   VCID: 2208364335562A9625-8076

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:| 6C0-937-089-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 6C0 937 089 A    HW: 6C0 937 089
   Component: BCM PQ26 Hi4R H06 0047 
   Serial number: 009458011640
   Coding: 0000185042530AFB4B844000402F07C810005B0253010000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 131071 1023 2097151
   ASAM Dataset: EV_BCMA0 004003
   ROD: EV_MQBA0.rod
   VCID: 2E10D273718E9EF6B1-807A

   Rain Light Recognition Sensor:
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5Q0 955 547 A    HW: 5Q0 955 547 A  Labels: 5Q0-955-547.CLB
   Component: RLHS  037 0059
   Serial number: S4Y14M09D22H18M00S13
   Coding: 0038DD

   Drivers Door Control Module:
   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 801 AT    HW: 6R0 959 801 AT  Labels: 6R0-959-801.CLB
   Component: J386__TSG_FT  003 8612
   Serial number: KU0KU029091442721214
   Coding: 0400A0

   Front Passengers Door Control Module:
   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 802 BE    HW: 6R0 959 802 BE  Labels: 6R0-959-802.CLB
   Component: J387__TSG_BT  003 8612
   Serial number: KU0KU026091442692280
   Coding: 1400A0

   Drivers Door Rear Control Module:
   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 811 N    HW: 6R0 959 811 N
   Component: J388__TSG_HL  003 8610
   Serial number: KU0KU030091442737009
   Coding: 0400A0

   Passengers Rear Door Control Module:
   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 812 N    HW: 6R0 959 812 N
   Component: J389__TSG_HR  003 8610
   Serial number: KU0KU029091442726709
   Coding: 1400A0

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J791)       Labels:| 5Q0-919-294.clb
   Part No SW: 5Q0 919 294 E    HW: 5Q0 919 294 A
   Component: PARKHILFE 8K  H03 0048 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 39331426300522
   Coding: 0011051011
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_EPHVA18AU3700000 002024
   ROD: EV_EPHVA18AU3700000_VW26.rod
   VCID: 3D32E53FACE8756E38-8068

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 13: Auto Dist. Reg (J428)       Labels:| 5Q0-907-572-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 5Q0 907 572 F    HW: 5Q0 907 572 F
   Component: ACC Bosch MQB H05 0400 
   Serial number: 31051904400032
   Coding: 00001000FE0739
   Shop #: WSC 131071 1023 2097151
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ACCMRRBoschVW372 001016
   ROD: EV_ACCMRRBoschVW372_VW26.rod
   VCID: 3A38EE23BDC642561D-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 6C0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 6C0 959 655 B    HW: 6C0 959 655 B
   Component: VW20Airbag01B 001 0330 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 003LN00117W2
   Coding: 88CCC000000000005C0000CA000800000000
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW20BPAVW26X 001001
   ROD: EV_AirbaVW20BPAVW26X.rod
   VCID: 3228C60365B6BA16D5-8066

   Side Sensor Driver Front:
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 410 820 708 14
   Component: SideSensor_Df  151 0800
   Serial number: 3575H00A91628C10821B
   Coding: 2D2D2D

   Side Sensor Passenger Front:
   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 410 821 408 14
   Component: SideSensor_Pf  151 0800
   Serial number: 3585H00C715D4353036E
   Coding: 2D2D2D

   Side Sensor Driver Rear:
   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 442 152 609 14
   Component: SideSensor_Dr  1CA 0148
   Serial number: 3517A009F176F602539I
   Coding: 2D2D2D

   Side Sensor Passenger Rear:
   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: -----------    HW: 442 152 609 14
   Component: SideSensor_Pr  1CA 0148
   Serial number: 3527A009D176F6031114
   Coding: 2D2D2D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5G0-920-XXX-17.clb-SRI3
   Part No SW: 6C0 920 740 A    HW: 6C0 920 740 A
   Component: KOMBI         211 0290 
   Coding: 072409082180000800882A011000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 131071 1023 2097151
   ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBAB 009040
   ROD: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBAB_009_VW26.rod
   VCID: 200C3C4B3B5A388633-8074

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:| 6C0-909-901-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 6C0 909 901     HW: 6C0 937 089
   Component: GW MQB A0     H06 0047 
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 009458011640
   Coding: 030100046F0A560071000000000000010001000000000000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_GatewA0Lear 001001
   ROD: EV_GatewA0Lear_001_VW26.rod
   VCID: 65826D5F64F81DAE80-8030

   Multi Function Steering Wheel Control Module:
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 6C0 959 442 A    HW: 6C0 959 442 A  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
   Component: E221__MFL-TAT  H04 0019
   Serial number: 2691421372602079AD1B
   Coding: 280000

   Battery Monitoring Control Module:
   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6C0 915 181 A    HW: 6C0 915 181 A
   Component: J367-BDM  H08 0223
   Serial number: 51269H47422821817375

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist (J792)       Labels:| 6Rx-909-144-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 6C1 909 144 M    HW: 6C1 909 144 D
   Component: EPS_TRW_ALow  312 3211 
   Serial number: PEAD0465
   Coding: 0007
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_SteerAssisUDSTRW 011021
   ROD: EV_SteerAssisUDSTRW_011.rod
   VCID: 3228C60365B6BA16D5-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794)       Labels:| 5G0-035-MIB-ENT2.clb
   Part No SW: 6C0 035 869 B    HW: 6C0 035 869 B
   Component: MU-E--ER      820 6220 
   Serial number: 13081400011592
   Coding: 02620000BE00000041110001000000001F0000840000010000
   Shop #: WSC 00788 648 00255
   ASAM Dataset: EV_MUEnt4CGen2LGE 001017
   ROD: EV_MUEnt4CGen2LGE_VW26.rod
   VCID: 2A18DE634D66F2D66D-807E

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 00:51, VBatt start/end: 14.5V/14.5V)-----------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Measurements from CAN-Gateway:


Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Address 19: CAN Gateway  (6C0 909 901 )

16:07:21
  IDE01827   Generator specified voltage value 13.5 V
  IDE01828   Generator DF Signal 51.625 %
  IDE01829   Generator exciter current 2.500 A
  IDE01830-MAS01632   Generator Status-Status Thermal OK
  IDE01830-MAS02970   Generator Status-Status 2: Mechanical OK
  IDE01830-MAS02971   Generator Status-Status 3: Electrical OK
  IDE01831-MAS03159   Generator variant-Manufacturer Robert Bosch GmbH
  IDE01831-MAS06310   Generator variant-Generator identifier Generator recognition 75-140A
  IDE01832-MAS06311   Generator regulator variant-ASIC manufacturer 0
  IDE01832-MAS06312   Generator regulator variant-ASIC variant 4
  IDE01855   Generator current 9.9 A
  IDE03588-MAS06321   System malfunctions for active participants start/stop-System malfunction generator 0
  IDE07473-MAS06303   Generator limitation-Status overvoltage limitation not active
  IDE07473-MAS06304   Generator limitation-Status overvoltage diagnosis not active
  IDE07473-MAS06305   Generator limitation-Status of diagnosis for energy balance not active
  IDE07473-MAS06306   Generator limitation-Status generator release by engine Request by Engine Control Module
  IDE07473-MAS06307   Generator limitation-Status of battery charging function not active
  IDE07473-MAS06308   Generator limitation-Power steering support active not active
  IDE07473-MAS06309   Generator limitation-Coolant fan activation request by BEM not active
  IDE08346-MAS06117   Generator Analysis-Rated voltage 13.5 V
  IDE08346-MAS06864   Generator Analysis-Generator actual voltage 13.3 V
  IDE08346-MAS06865   Generator Analysis-Voltage difference generator battery 0.0 V
  IDE03588-MAS06321   System malfunctions for active participants start/stop-System malfunction generator 0
  IDE08346-MAS06866   Generator Analysis-Generator speed 733 /min
  IDE08346-MAS06867   Generator Analysis-Generator chip temperature 76 °C
  ENG118780-ENG118447   EM_Recuperation_Precondition-battery_regeneration 1
  ENG118780-ENG118445   EM_Recuperation_Precondition-generator_diagnosis 1
  ENG118780-ENG118444   EM_Recuperation_Precondition-generator_workload 1
  IDE01836   Battery current 3.061 A
  IDE01846   Static current shutdown level Deactivation stage 0
  IDE01852   Static current measurement: result too High
  IDE01853   Static current measurement: status Cancel
  IDE03588-MAS06321   System malfunctions for active participants start/stop-System malfunction generator 0
  IDE07474-MAS06313   Adapting for energy management-Adaptation static current management not active
  IDE07637   Current charge contingent for feedback 0.0 As
  IDE08346-MAS06866   Generator Analysis-Generator speed 730 /min
  IDE08346-MAS06867   Generator Analysis-Generator chip temperature 76 °C
  ENG118780-ENG118447   EM_Recuperation_Precondition-battery_regeneration 1
  ENG118780-ENG118445   EM_Recuperation_Precondition-generator_diagnosis 1
  ENG118780-ENG118444   EM_Recuperation_Precondition-generator_workload 1
  IDE01834   Battery voltage 13.431 V
  IDE01836   Battery current 3.257 A
  IDE01837   Temperature of battery sensor 41 °C
  IDE01838   Battery temperature 25 °C
  IDE01839   Battery charge condition 83 %
  IDE01841   Battery internal resistance 5.6 mOhm
  IDE01842   Usable battery charge 50 Ah
  IDE01843   Battery voltage at rest 12.6 V
  IDE01948   Battery internal resistance not normed 5.8 mOhm
  IDE04186   Battery terminal recognition connected
  IDE06468-MAS06315   Battery model-estimated battery temperature 0 °C
  IDE06468-MAS06316   Battery model-estimated battery ambient temperature 0
  IDE06468-MAS06317   Battery model-Specification rated battery voltage from BTM 12.0 V
  IDE06468-MAS06318   Battery model-Determined parking time 0 s
  IDE07473-MAS06307   Generator limitation-Status of battery charging function not active
  IDE07474-MAS06314   Adapting for energy management-Battery coding active not active
  IDE07616   Battery degradation for start/stop - operation Phase 1
  IDE07623-MAS06328   Open-circuit voltage gateway-Battery voltage last wakeup 13.4 V
  IDE07623-MAS06329   Open-circuit voltage gateway-Batter voltage penultimate wakeup 14.3 V
  IDE07681-MAS06086   Battery total charging throughput-Total re-charge 22.2 Ah
  IDE07681-MAS06087   Battery total charging throughput-Total energy throughput 20.3 Ah
  IDE08346-MAS06865   Generator Analysis-Voltage difference generator battery 0.0 V
  IDE08347   adapted battery capacity 73 Ah
 
   #2  

Uwe

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I remove the (new) alternator and send it to my supplier for checking, they test it (and LIN-communication) and it turns out fine.
Aftermarket alternator?

-Uwe-
 
   #3  

DV52

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@Segil:Hi. I'm just guessing, but have you considered the pissabolity(?) of J367 being implicated in the fault? The hex 19 module appears to be happy in your scan report, so it believes that everything is hunky-dory - but perhaps this is because the battery monitor control module is under reporting the charge flow rate to the alternator- maybe?

As you will know, the particular LIN circuit between the hex19 module and the Alternator on MQB vehicles is shared with J367 - see my very cut-down version of a WD in my picture below. Note: this is intended as a general schematic only - it's not specific to your Polo.



My experience with this module has been when it has failed only, or when it has been deliberately disconnected (as an inappropriate way for disabling Start Stop) - so not in the instance when it is under/over reporting to hex19. Perhaps there are test facilities for validating J367 operation in Advance Measurement Values - maybe?

In any event, perhaps check the status of the 2 x wire harness for J367 (it sits on the -ve battery terminal) -paying particular attention to pin #1 (the LIN wire).

Again, just a hunch

Don
 
Last edited:
   #4  

Segil

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Thank you for your reply!

Uwe;

The alternator is a BOSCH-original, F000BL08F2 (same number as the original VAG has)
Regulator, BOSCH, 027 222 08 54 (LIN 19 ID#24)

Same as the car is supplied with in factory. The alternator is bought from a big distributor so low risk for counterfeit. They have also tested the alternator in a test bench, including LIN-communication.

Don;

That was exactly my idea initially. The thing is the J367 reports the right amperage ("IDE01836 Battery current 3.061 A") verified with clamp meter and the communication seems to work fine. I have replaced the wiring, and connectors.

I'm lost :)
 
   #5  

Polofan

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?? And hopefully the new BEM battery are one the Polo likes :confused:
 
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