2016 CCTA Crank - No Start - Flooding Out

   #1  

Jessiepp

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Hey, this is my first post here, although I have read countless posts over the last 10 years or so working at an indy shop.

Currently am working on a 2016 Tiguan 2.0 CCTA with 113306km on it. This vehicle was towed to me from another shop who couldn't get it running. Story was it just died while driving.

The previous shop replaced the plugs (NGK Iridiums) and the HPFP (Unsure of Brand).

Basically what is happening is the engine will crank over (at a normal speed), it will sometimes fire for less than a second, then immediately die. I pulled all the plugs and they were fouled, cleaned and dried them, and blew out the cylinders with shop air. It would crank and fire again for a second then die, and then just crank. Pull plugs again, soaked in fuel again. Perform compression test after drying cylinders out, about 150 across the board (a little low, likely from fuel wash in cylinders).

I then checked some measuring blocks, found after drying the cylinders and plugs the specified rail pressure would rise up to around specified (40bar) on crank, then as soon at it tries to run rail pressure drops to low pressure spec (6.5bar) and the injection timing jumps from about 4ms to 30-40ms. Upon trying to crank more, actual rail pressure goes up to 60-70bar and the injection timing stays around 4-5ms. Intermittently the high pressure will stay low (6.5bar) and the injection timing will stay high (40ms).

There are no codes in the ecu (fuel trims at 0, assuming previous shop cleared them) to help point me in a direction. Basically not sure what input(s) would tell the ecu to open the injectors that long. Coolant temp matches ambient temperature (15*C) and I get a an engine RPM signal on cranking. Engine oil level is good and not overly dirty, although probably fuel contaminated at this point.

Here is a auto-scan of the vehicle:

Code:
Tuesday,29,September,2020,10:23:30:06121
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20200730 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVGJV7AX3GW011779   License Plate: 
Mileage: 111300km-69158mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: AX-VW36 (7N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 25 2B 42 44 46 4C 4F 52 53
          55 5F 62 6C 72

VIN: WVGJV7AX3GW011779   Mileage: 111300km-69158miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
22-AWD -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
2B-Steer. Col. Lock -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
4C-Tire Pressure II -- Status: OK 0000
4F-Centr. Electr. II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CCT)       Labels:. 06J-906-026-CCT.clb
   Part No SW: 06J 906 027 JP    HW: 06J 907 309 A
   Component: MED17.5.2 TFSI 2 06 1335  
   Revision: P3H08---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0423010A190F0160
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 020B57185D18F89605-8056

No fault code found.
Readiness: 1110 0101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
   Part No SW: 09G 927 750 NK    HW: 09G 927 750 NK
   Component: AQ 250 6F           2627  
   Revision: 00H97000    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0000840
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 071D460C763ADDBE52-8052

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 5N0-614-109-C6.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 614 109 BN    HW: 5N0 614 109 BN
   Component: J104   C6 450M VD4F 0021  
   Revision: --H07---    Serial number: 00000008888326
   Coding: 0005161
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 78FF35F00BC4A2462B-802C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J518)       Labels:| 5K0-959-434.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 959 434 E    HW: 5K0 959 434 
   Component: VWKESSYPQ35GP 092 1202  
   Revision: 00092000    Serial number: 0369733813
   Coding: 030C0C
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_KESSYPQ35G A02717
   ROD: EV_KESSYPQ35G_A02_VW31.rod
   VCID: 377DF6CC8E5A6D3EE2-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels:| 5K0-907-044.clb
   Part No SW: 1K8 907 044 S    HW: 1K8 907 044 S
   Component: Climatronic   H05 0304  
   Revision: 00001K03    
   Coding: 001000C002
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatronic A01010
   ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_VW36.rod
   VCID: 3F8D9EECA66A557E2A-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 937 086 AB    HW: 5K0 937 086 AB
   Component: BCM PQ35 M    122 0183  
   Revision: BJ122001    
   Coding: EF1A0A1B80232EC4008800C114000D4448D50006566D8DB0E4840000A040
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 74E701C0D7ACC62607-8020

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5N1 955 119 B    HW: 5N1 955 119 B  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: WWS316 140515  24  0664 
   Coding: 009795

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
   Component: RLS 120615 05  54  0403 
   Coding: 02304D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 5N0-959-655.lbl
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 655 AB    HW: 5N0 959 655 AB
   Component: J234__009 VW10 HI   5518  
   Revision: 34021000    Serial number: 003MAPB1A365  
   Coding: 0012345
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 7DF124E424E6876E78-8028

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 5N0 959 339 B
   Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 003 0001

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 0000000000NLPB

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 0007.04.150000300000660074ÿ†63

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 660074ÿ†6332MTS6253715452ÿ†63

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 715452ÿ†6342MTS628101545/ÿ†63

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 01545/ÿ†6351HTS6CVGTMDKR9ÿ†63

   Subsystem 7 - Serial number: TMDKR9ÿ†6361HTS6T7PTMDKRCÿ†63

   Subsystem 8 - Serial number: TMDKRCÿ†63727TS6NV7BNDKRSÿ†63

   Subsystem 9 - Serial number: BNDKRSÿ†63827TS6TK7UNDKR2ÿ

   Subsystem 10 - Serial number: UNDKR2ÿ

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:| 5K0-953-569.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 501 DM    HW: 5K0 953 569 AP
   Component: LENKS.MODUL   016 0180  
   Revision: FF010042    Serial number: 20150616200282
   Coding: 110A140000
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_VW360SteerWheelUDS A03004
   ROD: EV_VW360SteerWheelUDS.rod
   VCID: 78FF35F0C3C4A2462B-802C

   Multifunction steering wheel control module: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 542 C    HW: 5K0 959 542 C  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
   Component: E221__MFL-TAS  H31 0037 
   Serial number: 0826819             
   Coding: 820000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
   Part No SW: 5N0 920 873 F    HW: 5N0 920 873 F
   Component: KOMBI         H04 1007  
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 311F010000
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A05730
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_005_VW31.rod
   VCID: 3663FBC889509436F9-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 BB    HW: 7N0 907 530 AM
   Component: J533  Gateway H55 1663  
   Revision:   H55       Serial number: 050615F1002146
   Coding: 356022
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 71E908D4A8BEF30EEC-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD (J492)       Labels:* 0CQ-907-554.clb
   Part No SW: 0AY 907 554 J    HW: 0CQ 525 130 
   Component: Haldex4Motion H52 7531  
   Serial number: HA1-00022.04.15
   Coding: 0001
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AllWheelContrHA1VW37X 002015
   ROD: EV_AllWheelContrHA1VW37X_002.rod
   VCID: 52ABA75805F8A816F5-8006

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
   Component: IMMO          H04 1007  
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 000007
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03710
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW31.rod
   VCID: 6ADB1FB88D6800D6AD-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2B: Steer. Col. Lock (J764)       Labels:* 5K0-905-861.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 905 861 C    HW: 5K0 905 861 C
   Component: ELV-PQ35      H21 0240  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 15000141310003
   Coding: 4900000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ELVMarquMPVW36X A01001
   ROD: EV_ELVMarquMPVW36X_VW31.rod
   VCID: 306FCDD06B34BA06A3-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels:| 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 701 F    HW: 3C0 959 793 B
   Component: TUER-SG FT    002 0503  
   Revision: 13110009    Serial number: 0009774368
   Coding: 0004B4
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGFPQ35BRFVW46X A04001
   ROD: EV_TSGFPQ35BRFVW46X_VW36.rod
   VCID: 387FF5F083446246EB-806C

   Slave Driver: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5N0 959 703 G    HW: 3C0 959 794 D  Labels: 1K0-959-70X-GEN4.CLB
   Component: J388__TSG-HL  009 1504 
   Serial number: 00000009399189      
   Coding: 000490

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 5N1-909-144.clb
   Part No SW: 5N1 909 144 R    HW: 5N1 909 148 J
   Component: J500__APA-BS KL.286 1401  
   Revision: 1BH04841    Serial number: 00151540205401
   Coding: 0000258
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 41899814189E238E5C-8014

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 4F: Centr. Electr. II (J520)       Labels:. 1K0-907-532.clb
   Part No SW: 7N0 907 532     HW: 7N0 907 530 AM
   Component: EZE_2         H55 1663  
   Revision:   H55       Serial number: 050615F1002146
   Coding: 050B0500
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 6FED0EACBE8AE5FEFA-803A

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 7N0 959 591 B    HW: 7N0 959 591 B
   Component: J245EE04SKB03  H04 0090 
   Serial number: 0123456789ABCDEFGHIJ

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 7N0 959 591 B    HW: 7N0 959 591 B
   Component: J394EE04SKB03  H04 0090 
   Serial number: 0123456789ABCDEFGHIJ

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels:| 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 959 702 F    HW: 3C0 959 792 B
   Component: TUER-SG BT    002 0503  
   Revision: 15110009    Serial number: 0009765676
   Coding: 0004B4
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGBPQ35BRFVW46X A04001
   ROD: EV_TSGBPQ35BRFVW46X_VW36.rod
   VCID: 3979F0F4B84E7B4E14-806C

   Slave Passenger: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5N0 959 704 G    HW: 3C0 959 795 D  Labels: 1K0-959-70X-GEN4.CLB
   Component: J389__TSG-HR  009 1504 
   Serial number: 00000009399684      
   Coding: 000490

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake        Labels: 3AA-907-801.clb
   Part No SW: 3AA 907 801 J    HW: 3AA 907 801 J
   Component: J540 EPB4  VW-63206 0012  
   Revision:   H19       Serial number: 00000000745792
   Coding: 0026156
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 387FF5F04B446246EB-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range (J745)       Labels:. 5M0-907-357-V3.clb
   Part No SW: 5M0 907 357 F    HW: 7L6 907 357 C
   Component: AFS-ECU       H04 0111  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 041A00010B000400
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_HeadlRegulVWAFSPt 002016
   ROD: EV_HeadlRegulVWAFSPt_VW32.rod
   VCID: 377DF6CC8E5A6D3EE2-8062

   Left_headlamp_power_output_stage: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 5N0 941 329   Labels: 3D0-941-329.CLB

   Right_headlamp_power_output_stage: 
   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 5N0 941 329   Labels: 3D0-941-329.CLB

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794)       Labels:| 5G0-035-MIB-STD2.clb
   Part No SW: 5C0 035 200     HW: 5C0 035 200 
   Component: MU-S-S-US     H21 0241  
   Serial number: VWZAZ2R0144894
   Coding: 02130600FF00000011220001001828001F0100C40020010002
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_MUStd4CTSAT 001022
   ROD: EV_MUStd4CTSAT_VW32.rod
   VCID: 52ABA75805F8A816F5-8006

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6C: Back-up Cam. (J772)       Labels:| 5Q0-907-441.clb
   Part No SW: 7N0 907 441 B    HW: 7N0 907 441 B
   Component: VW428 RVC Mid H04 0030  
   Coding: 011306012001000700
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_CamSysRearPANAVW428 002002
   ROD: EV_CamSysRearPANAVW428.rod
   VCID: 306FCDD06B34BA06A3-8064

No fault code found.

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 03:38)--------------------------
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
 
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   #2  

MartinsX

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Jumped chain? Or broken? Are camshafts turning at all?
 
   #3  

Jessiepp

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Camshafts are turning, looked in through the oil fill as well as the hpfp lobe is spinning. I thought about pulling the timing cover and confirming timing, but thought I'd post here before pushing it into the shop.
 
   #4  

Uwe

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Since @Jessiepp is now Verified, moving to Car Repair Support.

-Uwe-
 
   #5  

dieseldub

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Pull the plugs and have a helper crank it for you with the plugs removed.

Do any of the cylinders just pump fuel out of the spark plug hole?
 
   #6  

Jessiepp

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Fuel does not pump out with coils and plugs out
 
   #7  

Jessiepp

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Fuel does not pump out with coils and plugs out
Just let it sit for an hour or so with the plugs out, noticed fuel in all 4 cylinders, cranked it and it puffed it all out after 20 or so revolutions. Guess these injectors are leaking...would that cause the no start though? even after clearing the cylinders of excess fuel and ensuring the plugs are dry?
 
   #8  

dieseldub

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Just let it sit for an hour or so with the plugs out, noticed fuel in all 4 cylinders, cranked it and it puffed it all out after 20 or so revolutions. Guess these injectors are leaking...would that cause the no start though? even after clearing the cylinders of excess fuel and ensuring the plugs are dry?
It certainly could... and now you at least know there is something that needs attention that might also happen to fix your issue. And even if it doesn't fix the issue, it needed to be done anyway.
 
   #9  

Jessiepp

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It certainly could... and now you at least know there is something that needs attention that might also happen to fix your issue. And even if it doesn't fix the issue, it needed to be done anyway.
Yeah will start with new injectors and a intake valve clean..probably just pop that upper cover off and check the chain while im at it..hopefully that solves the problem and its not a bad ecu or something stupid like that. Will report back with my results (assuming the customer okays the repair).
 
   #10  

Jessiepp

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Well as promised I have an update. Decided to just pull the upper cover and verify timing before any other repairs. Glad as I did, as the exhaust cam is out atleast 5 teeth. Baffles me as to why I still got good compression, and why the injection timing hit such high pulse width. But either way atleast the problem has been identified. Now to tell the customer the bad news.
 
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