Golf Mk V 2.0 FSI not starting

   #1  

torque_twister

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We have a totally standard Golf Mk V 2.0 FSI BLR. I recently replaced the 4 rubber intake manifold to engine hoses, after rough running and detecting leaks in the hoses with a smoke tester. Ran great for a couple of weeks after this and then started to get a very rough idle again. I did a scan in VCDS and realised the old fault codes were still in there so I errased the old codes and the car started and ran beautifully! It seemed like the erasing of the codes fixed something. Anyone heard of this happening before? What would the cause be? The car worked well for a few days after this but the rough idle came back but now it won't start at all although it spins over easily. Recharged the battery but didn't help. I also can't see any popped off hoses or switches in the engine bay and did another smoke test which shows up no leaks.

I'm not very experienced with VCDS but have been doing some watching of youtube on VCDS as well as some reading/searching on the net. I've done a new scan and the only things coming up are a headlight bulb, a door lock and steering position sensor (this is new). I went into the engine measuring blocks hoping to see if there's fuel pressure and a spark and it shows O misfires on all cylinders while cranking the engine, although it shows Misfire Recognition Disabled. Is that normal? Fuel rail shows 4.5 bar actual and 39.7 spec -is this pressure OK considering engine is not running?. Are there any other blocks I should look at?

My next steps will be to check the important fuses and relays, take off a fuel hose and check for flow, and remove coils/plugs and check for spark but I was hoping that VCDS could make this process a bit easier. It seems strange that no relevant codes are coming up.




Code:
Saturday,26,September,2020,12:45:44:10184
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.2.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4513.4
Data version: 20200730 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ6U01   License Plate:
Mileage: 108830km-67623mi   Repair Order: 26thSept2020



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 56 62 72

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ6U013583   Mileage: 108830km-67623miles

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06F-906-056-BLR.lbl
   Part No SW: 06F 906 056 DN    HW: Hardware No
   Component: MED9.5.10       G00 7001 
   Revision: --H01---    Serial number: VWZ7Z0E2507587
   Coding: 0000075
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 78A9EE3CDED1374B6A3-802C

No fault code found.
Readiness: 1110 0101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
   Part No: 09G 927 750 FB
   Component: AQ 250 6F           0709 
   Coding: 0000072
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 76B5E004D4C5413B78F-8022

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK70.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 907 379 P
   Component: ASR FRONT MK70      0105 
   Coding: 0017025
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 3FDB4520BB7FC0736B9-806A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 820 047 DF
   Component: Climatic PQ35   090 0505 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 6B83C1709F878CD3971-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 3C0-937-049-23-M.lbl
   Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 D    HW: 3C0 937 049 D
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H37 1002 
   Revision: 00H37000    Serial number: 00000005097726
   Coding: E48D0F2700041800001400001400000000097B075C
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 2A0D047450FD55DB2C7-807E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 C  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer VW350  012  0402 
   Coding: 00049109
   Shop #: WSC 00046 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 T  Labels: 1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
   Component: RegenLichtSens 011  1110 
   Coding: 00208933
   Shop #: WSC 00046 

1 Fault Found:
00978 - Lamp for Low Beam; Left (M29)
            010 - Open or Short to Plus
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101010
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 250
                    Mileage: 108830 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                        ON
                    Voltage: 11.90 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        OFF


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 N    HW: 1K0 909 605 N
   Component: 36 AIRBAG VW8   015 2100 
   Revision: 03015000    Serial number: 0038ED0KYNL7 
   Coding: 0013110
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 372B2D00934FF833A39-8062

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME0C071F52D

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME0B35147DG

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HSME080A0153.

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HSME08220576+

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 AG    HW: 1K0 953 549 AG
   Component: J0527           634 0070 
   Coding: 0012022
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 77ABED00D3CF3833639-8022

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX
   Component: E0221           007 0050

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 920 862 A
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 1212 
   Coding: 0003703
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 2809FE7C4EF167CB3A3-807C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 F    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: Gateway         H10 0120 
   Revision:   H10       Serial number: 28001058138C20
   Coding: 3F3F0340070003
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2A0D047450FD55DB2C7-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No: 1K0 920 862 A
   Component: IMMO            VDD 1212 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2809FE7C4EF167CB3A3-807C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 701 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         024 2370 
   Coding: 0000692
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 363520049445013BB8F-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V2.clb
   Part No: 1K2 909 144 J
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.5   D04 1606 
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 33331910873714139F1-8066

1 Fault Found:
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
            000 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MIN.clb
   Part No: 1K0 959 433 AK
   Component:    KSG              0401 
   Coding: 00C802087F2D8405485F018010CC
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 79AFEB38E5DB2E4315D-802C

   Subsystem 1 - Component:   Sounder n.mounted     

   Subsystem 2 - Component:       NGS n.mounted     

   Subsystem 3 - Component:      IRUE n.mounted     

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 702 K
   Component: Tuer-SG         024 2370 
   Coding: 0000692
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 372B2D00934FF833A39-8062

2 Faults Found:
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221)
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00110 - Right Mirror Turn Signal Lamp (L132)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 035 186 P    HW: 1K0 035 186 P
   Component: Radio FO3       013 0014 
   Revision: 00013000    Serial number: VWZ7Z2E0068310
   Coding: 0040400
   Shop #: WSC 30079 959 89373
   VCID: 33331910873714139F1-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels: 1K0-959-703-GEN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 703 F
   Component: Tuer-SG         021 2429 
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 33331910873714139F1-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels: 1K0-959-704-GEN2.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 959 704 F
   Component: Tuer-SG         021 2429 
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000
   VCID: 34311A0C8239132B86B-8060

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 00:58, VBatt start/end: 12.0V/12.1V. VIgn 11.9V)-----

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Address 09: Cent. Elect.       Labels: 3C0-937-049-23-M.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 3C0 937 049 D    HW: 3C0 937 049 D
  Component and/or Version: Bordnetz-SG     H37 1002
           Software Coding: E48D0F2700041800001400001400000000097B075C
            Work Shop Code: WSC 00046 412 00000
           Additional Info: 1K2955119C  Wischer VW350  012  0402   1K0955559T  RegenLichtSens 011  1110   
                      VCID: 2A0D047450FD55DB2C7-807E
1 Fault Found:

00978 - Lamp for Low Beam; Left (M29)
            010 - Open or Short to Plus
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101010
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 250
                    Mileage: 108830 km
                    Time Indication: 0

             Freeze Frame:
                        ON
                    Voltage: 11.90 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        OFF
 
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   #2  

NZDubNurd

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Does the engine speed register when cranking; the tacho should move up, or check the measuring block for engine speed sensor G28.

Clearing the codes resets the fuel trims, so it may have caused the better running. Did you check the breather hoses while you did the manifold? they crack often, as does the top plastic section of the dipstick.

It won't (usually) affect starting, but the intake ports clog up with carbon in these due tto the direct injection, and can cause rough idle. Cleaning it out can smooth out idle, but also helps with top end power - Made quite a difference in my wifes Touran.
 
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   #3  

torque_twister

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I just checked the engine speed and yes the tacho goes up to 200-300 rpm while I'm cranking. I replaced the shorter breather hose a few months ago and the longer one when I replaced the intake hoses so should be ok and no leaks showed up with a recent smoke test. I'll check the dipstick tomorrow when it stops raining but I was very careful not to damage it when I replaced the intake manifold.

I did notice some blackening in the IM but didn't think it would have much effect so thanks for the tip. Thanks also for the info re fuel maps but in that case I wonder why today when I cleared the error codes it had no effect.
 
   #4  

MartinsX

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Fuel pressure must rise close to specified when cranking. If not, start with fuel system check.
 
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   #5  

torque_twister

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I thought that there would be no difference in fuel pressure between cranking and ignition ON but I don't have a good understanding of how direct injection works so I will have a look at the pressure whilst cranking and report back. Thank you.
 
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Uwe

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   #8  

torque_twister

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Thank you. So I can't use it to see if I have a spark at start up as it is only operational when engine is running and above a certain revs?
 
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Uwe

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Misfire detection operational under conditions defined in the ECU's firmware. They're likely more complex than just "above a certain RPM". It doesn't detect spark in any case; it detects a lack of acceptable combustion after a spark.

-Uwe-
 
   #10  

torque_twister

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Ah ok thanks Uwe. Well fuel rail pressure is 62.5 bar when cranking so that seems to be ok. I also checked the important fuses and they're ok, and removed the A1 engine control relay from the engine compartment fusebox which I will test soon.

I read on another forum about someone who was having no start problems and they reset the Throttle Body Alignment back to basic settings and it fixed their problem. Would this be worth trying and any dangers in doing this? Mine in group 060 currently reads: Basic Settings OFF and ADP O.K.
 
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MartinsX

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I doubt TBA will solve no start problem. It's not dangerous to run it. It will not make any changes if it already show ADP OK.
Start with basics: ok, You have fuel pressure. Have You got any new DTC's after several attempts to start? Remove spark plus right after couple attempts to start. Are they wet? Smell of gasoline?
 
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   #12  

HMC

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Ah ok thanks Uwe. Well fuel rail pressure is 62.5 bar when cranking so that seems to be ok. I also checked the important fuses and they're ok, and removed the A1 engine control relay from the engine compartment fusebox which I will test soon.

I read on another forum about someone who was having no start problems and they reset the Throttle Body Alignment back to basic settings and it fixed their problem. Would this be worth trying and any dangers in doing this? Mine in group 060 currently reads: Basic Settings OFF and ADP O.K.
If it doesn't start, how would you get it past 85degrees to be able to run the TBA?
Regards HMC
 
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Hi Uwe,
" Why do you think a TBA needs to have the engine that hot? " because in the past I have had vehicles that would not do a TBA until they were past 80 degrees. I cannot remember if I got a "Parameters not met" message , or an explicit warning about coolant temperature.
Regards HMC
 
   #15  

torque_twister

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The Engine Control relay tests OK so I will remove plugs and check for wetness and spark as soon as I find some more time. I also need to charge the battery again and will then do another scan. I think I might leave the TBA till later if at all.
 
   #16  

torque_twister

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I had some time today to do some more testing. There is no spark at the plugs when cranking and when I probe the coil pack electrical plug there are 2 earths, a constant 12V and a voltage of only 0.08V on the ECU pin when cranking. Should there be higher voltage than this on the ECU pin?

Also I was going to pull the fuel hose off where it meets the fuel rail to test for flow but I could feel that the fuel hose was hard with fuel pressure so decided I didn't need to go any further. When I pulled the plugs after cranking there was no sign or smell of any fuel on them, so looks like I have no spark and no injectors firing. What could cause this?

When I tested the A1 engine control relay it worked fine but the resistance across pins 86 and 85 was 170 ohm and everything I've read says it should be half this value. Could this be the problem?

BTW oil dipstick is ok.
 
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   #17  

torque_twister

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Did some further testing today and definitely no spark at any plug. I also checked all relevant fuses again and they have 12V at ON and START and bypassed main relay just in case but still not starting. So next I will try to trace the signal from the coils to the Cam Angle Sensor to the ECU. Another thing though, I looked again at my VCDS scan above and this one is definitely a new error:

1 Fault Found:
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
000 - -

I've done a search on the wiki and it says cause is "basic settings lost" and solution is to "perform a new basic setting" but if car won't start you can't do this. Could this fault prevent car from starting?

 
   #18  

Uwe

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No, a fault with the Steering Angle Sensor is not going to keep the engine from starting.

-Uwe-
 
   #19  

torque_twister

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Thanks Uwe. It's back to testing the coil-cam angle sensor-ECU circuit then.
 
   #20  

torque_twister

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I tested the coil connectors for ECU trigger signals with my multimeter set to HZ and got a signal but it fluctuated wildly so it was hard to pin down a reading but at least there was a signal there. Then I read this excellent article https://www.autoserviceprofessional.com/articles/6553-coil-on-plug-technology-and-diagnostics-tips which states that in some cars if the ECU detects a serious misfire in ONE cylinder it will shut off the coils and injectors in ALL cylinders and give a no-start condition, so I disconnected coil Nr 1 and turned the engine over. Well it fired up and ran on 3 cylinders for several minutes before I shut it down and it hasn't started at all in weeks! Its possible that if the malfunctioning coil/spark plug cannot be detected by the ECU if they are not plugged in, and it will start.

The wierd thing is when I then connected up coil Nr 1 again it started up and ran on 4 cylinders! So I figured there was probably an intermittant fault either in the spark plugs, ignition coils, coil connectors or coil wiring/ECU circuit. I started by installing new spark plugs and it runs great, and if the misfire/no-start comes back I'll replace each coil one by one, then the coil connectors etc. Coil Nr 1 fires up fine on the bench when I trigger the ECU pin with 5V but of course it may still misfire under compression.
 
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