2009 Volkswagen City Golf - Light Out Warning On Dash?

[Rembrant]

Hi Folks,

This little indicator light is randomly showing up on my 2009 VW City Golf. See picture below.
I believe these cars were only sold in Canada?...And maybe Brazil?...Not sure. Anyway, it's basically a Mk4 Golf with 2.0L 5spd.
The car came from Quebec, so the owner's manual is in French, and I cannot read it.
I checked Doctor Google, and he tells me this indicator is to tell me that I have a bulb out somewhere? Is that correct?
Is there a way to check with VCDS which circuit it is? The light only shows up occasionally, and then goes out on it's own.
By the time I look, I can never see any bulbs that are not working.

Any advice?

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Do you have any faults when doing an auto-scan........

A visual inspection of all the lights functions is always a good idea........

 

[GaryM]

Other than the obvious of a failed / failing bulb as already suggested by Jack, have a look at all the bulbs and see if it looks a possibility that the previous owner may have replaced any of the standard filament bulbs with LED equivalents. Even "error-free" CAN Bus LEDs can cause the bulb failure warning lamp to illuminate intermittently on some cars. Certainly worth a look.

 

[Rembrant]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies. No faults during auto-scan, no.
I've done a walk around, many times, checking all the lights, but they always look ok, and the dash light ends up going out on it's own anyway.

Perhaps I'll start going trough the bulbs one by one and see if I can see any issues.

Rem

 

[golfi_vend]

Does this system have a real CECm/BCM addressed on auto-scan.(Which is good to post here btw... )

I remember a project where they fitted bulb check to golf4 or was that b5.5. It had a separate "module" in size of relay. It had electronics in it to check amp draw of bulbs. It also had 2 output wires to cluster one was any other bulbs, and second was brake light bulbs. If all was good it would send current to cluster which makes the bulb-out LED turn off.

The "module" wouldn't show up in scan because it was small circuit without diagnostic capability neither it had any sort of communication.
As you said this system is like mk4, this is the only thing i could think of when you say mk4 and bulb check.

And also this, for brakes light bulb check to be passed you had to press brakes once.

 

[Keithuk]

Seat make a 05/94-06/96 City Golf 1.6 which is only made in China. VW make 2007> Citi Golf 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 but there is no specific country.

 

[Rembrant]

Does this system have a real CECm/BCM addressed on auto-scan.(Which is good to post here btw... )

I remember a project where they fitted bulb check to golf4 or was that b5.5. It had a separate "module" in size of relay. It had electronics in it to check amp draw of bulbs. It also had 2 output wires to cluster one was any other bulbs, and second was brake light bulbs. If all was good it would send current to cluster which makes the bulb-out LED turn off.

The "module" wouldn't show up in scan because it was small circuit without diagnostic capability neither it had any sort of communication.
As you said this system is like mk4, this is the only thing i could think of when you say mk4 and bulb check.

And also this, for brakes light bulb check to be passed you had to press brakes once.

Hmmm...interesting. Well, maybe I just have to start checking everything the old fashioned way and forget about the VCDS on this issue...

Yes, the car is definitely a Mk4 body (mostly) and Mk4 engine (mostly afaik), but I'm not sure about electronics.
Here is an auto-scan from a few months ago...I will take a new one tomorrow if it matters.
You'll see it says 1998-2006 in there...but the car is a 2009, we had them in Canada until 2010.

Friday,14,November,2014,21:19:31:24871
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.0.0 (x64)
Data version: 20141022


VIN: 9BWEL41J494016080   License Plate: 
Mileage: 138440km-86022mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
VIN: 9BWEL41J494016080   Mileage: 138440km-86022miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: None
   Part No SW: 06A 906 012 AB    HW: 06A 906 032 RF
   Component: 2,0L 85KW       G   0802  
   Revision: 00ÿW        Serial number:  000-00000.00.
   Coding: 0000001
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 5CB7BB279C4AA0C1533-5140

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 L
   Component: ABS FRONT MK60      0101  
   Coding: 0004097
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 3365309B51544FB9A29-5140

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 601 
   Component: 1L AIRBAG VW51      0011  
   Coding: 12620
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 5DB1B623D050A9C924D-8008

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1JE 920 807 
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V01  
   Coding: 11332
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 7AFBDDBF66BE7EF121F-5106
   9BWEL41J494016080     VWZ7Z0H0243276

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 70EFFF9730C234A19FB-5106

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 8C Komfortgerát HLO 0004  
   Coding: 00258
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 377D048B152CA3999E1-4B00

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
   Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
   Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202  

1 Fault Found:
00912 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Left (E40) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 06:13)--------------------------

 

[Rembrant]

VW make 2007> Citi Golf 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 but there is no specific country.

I'm not sure about the 1.4 to 1.8 engines...these Mk4 City Golfs were only available with the 2.0L gas engines.
I thought they were only sold in Canada from 2007-2010 in the Mk4 body style, but there could be other countries too.

Here's a clip from Wikipedia:

"As of 2008, certain variants of the Golf/Bora Mk4 were still in production in Brazil, China, and Mexico. Revised versions of the Mk4 were sold in Canada marketed as the Golf City and Jetta City from 2007 to 2010. The two models were VW Canada's entry-level offerings. They received a significant freshening for the 2008 model year, including revised headlamps, taillamps, front and rear fascias, sound systems, and wheels. Both models were offered only with the 2.0 L, 8-valve SOHC four-cylinder gasoline engine, rated at 86 kW (115 bhp). They were the only entry-level offerings with an optional six-speed automatic. Production of the European variant of the Golf Mk4 ceased at the end of the 2003 model year. Production of the U.S version ended in 2006."

 

[Uwe]

Hmmm...interesting. Well, maybe I just have to start checking everything the old fashioned way and forget about the VCDS on this issue...

Yes, the car is definitely a Mk4 body (mostly) and Mk4 engine (mostly afaik), but I'm not sure about electronics.
Here is an auto-scan from a few months ago...I will take a new one tomorrow if it matters.
You'll see it says 1998-2006 in there...but the car is a 2009, we had them in Canada until 2010.

Yup, definitely old-school -- no CECM / BCM, just a Comfort module for the windows and locks.

 

[Rembrant]

Yup, definitely old-school -- no CECM / BCM, just a Comfort module for the windows and locks.

Ok, well, that doesn't surprise me...they were cheap cars. They don't even have a replaceable cabin filter the buggers...lol.

So, is it like Golfi_vend mentioned above, that there is just a relay telling that dash indicator to come on? And even then, it's just referring to the whole circuit, and not any corner of the car in particular?

 

[Uwe]

Honestly, I don't know how that car does bulb-out detection. Have you used a helper to check the brake lights? How about the turn signals, the backup lights, the license plate light, etc?

-Uwe-

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

On these cars it might be an added resistance value.

Have you change any bulbs recently?
If the wrong wattage/resistance bulb is installed just as like someone aforementioned for LED's........... this can cause this.

As can a faulty ground......... so please reference luminescence.

Lights can be funny and seek what is known as an A-hole ground........ so watch for that or even a light bulb such as the wrong type inserted in an improper location or corroded.

 

[Rembrant]

Thanks Jack,

As soon as it stops snowing..., I'll start pulling bulbs to see what I can find...or if I finish the TDI and get it out of my garage first.

Cheers,
Cory

 

[Rembrant]

Hi again folks,
Finally got around to getting a current Auto-Scan...

My bulb-out indicator hasn't been on in a week and a half, so I'm waiting until it warms up before troubleshooting further.

However, I have been getting the "EPC" illuminating on the dash every once in a while.
It's random, and goes off on it's own.
Is that due to the brake switch below? The Bulb-out issue wouldn't have anything to do with the brake switch would it?

Tuesday,17,March,2015,07:34:25:24871
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20150311
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 9BWEL41J494016080   License Plate: 
Mileage: 148940km-92547mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
VIN: 9BWEL41J494016080   Mileage: 148940km-92547miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: None
   Part No SW: 06A 906 012 AB    HW: 06A 906 032 RF
   Component: 2,0L 85KW       G   0802  
   Revision: 00ÿW        Serial number:  000-00000.00.
   Coding: 0000001
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 5CB7BB279C4AA0C1527-5140

1 Fault Found:
16955 - Brake Switch (F) 
            P0571 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 1100

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 L
   Component: ABS FRONT MK60      0101  
   Coding: 0004097
   Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
   VCID: 3365309B51544FB9A3D-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 601 
   Component: 1L AIRBAG VW51      0011  
   Coding: 12620
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 5DB1B623D050A9C9259-8008

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1JE 920 807 
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V01  
   Coding: 11332
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 7AFBDDBF66BE7EF120B-5106
   9BWEL41J494016080     VWZ7Z0H0243276

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 70EFFF9730C234A19EF-5122

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 8C Komfortgerát HLO 0004  
   Coding: 00258
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 377D048B152CA3999F5-4B00

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
   Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
   Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202  

1 Fault Found:
00912 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Left (E40) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 06:15)--------------------------

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Yup most likely........

 

[Rembrant]

Yup most likely........

Thanks for the reply Jack.

You think the brake switch would be causing both the bulb-out indicator and the EPC illumination?

What does "EPC" stand for? My owner's manual is in French, so I can't read the darn thing...lol.

I Googled it and found Electronic Pedal Control, and Electronic Power Control, etc...

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Yup.......

EPC = Electronic Potentiometer Control .........for throttle/servo control MIL of its own.

Brake switch leaves on bulbs or reports back incorrect value to cluster is possible and can and will absolutely effect the EPC and possibly illuminate the bulb light.

 

[Rembrant]

Yup.......

EPC = Electronic Potentiometer Control .........for throttle/servo control MIL of its own.

Brake switch leaves on bulbs or reports back incorrect value to cluster is possible and can and will absolutely effect the EPC and possibly illuminate the bulb light.

Cool beans. Thanks Jack,

I'll check/replace the switch, clear codes, and carry on and see what happens after that.

Rem

 

[Rembrant]

Yup.......

EPC = Electronic Potentiometer Control .........for throttle/servo control MIL of its own.

Brake switch leaves on bulbs or reports back incorrect value to cluster is possible and can and will absolutely effect the EPC and possibly illuminate the bulb light.

I meant to report back here earlier, but I did just get around to fixing this issue a couple weeks ago. I've been driving the TDI most of April, so the 2.slow Golf was collecting dust.

In any case, you hit the nail right on the head Jack.

Brake switch was in-stock at the local VW dealer @ only pennies over $10 bucks. Replacement took all of...one minute?...lol. I swear it took me longer to bend down and get my head under the dash than it did to actually swap out the faulty switch.

Here I am, a couple weeks later now, and I've had no more "bulb out light" being illuminated, and no more "EPC" being illuminated. Looks like we're all fixed up.

Thanks again,
Rem