2008 Jetta tail brake lights and brake central light problem

   #1  

uberbit

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Hi friends!

I've got a 2008 Jetta BSE engine that developed a problem with the tail & central brake lights. With contact on, these are lit at all times. If I press the brake I see only for a moment a variation in intensity then returrn to being lit as before.
I have changed brake pedal switch - F47, mounted on the brake pump, but to no avail.
I have changed the Central electronics module, coded back and the problem persists.

In Central diagnostic I can see when the brake pedal is presses so I conclude that the F47 brake pedal sensor works fine.
In the Elsa current flow diagram I see another sensor F - Brake light switch but I cannot find it mounted on the brake pedal.
Is there something I'm missing here? I'm really puzzled.

Here is the autoscan:

Code:
Wednesday,23,September,2020,19:17:42:28206
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.2.0  HEX-NET CB: 0.4513.4
Data version: 20200730 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com

Dealer/Shop Name: EcuMall  SRL

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ8M151162   License Plate: BT07CIG
Mileage: 120040km-74589mi   Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 56 62 72

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ8M151162   Mileage: 120040km-74589miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 1010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 1010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: Malfunction 0010
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: Malfunction 0010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-033-BGU.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 033 GG
   Component: SIMOS71 1.6l 2V     1025
   Revision: --H04---    Serial number: VWX7Z0H124S04J
   Coding: 0004071
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 6A98DE834511C7D6AD-803E

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK70.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 907 379 P
   Component: ASR FRONT MK70      0105
   Coding: 0017025
   Shop #: WSC 12345 000 00000
   VCID: 3FCE5FD76E13927E2A-806A

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 1K0-907-044.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 044 CT    HW: 1K0 907 044 CT
   Component: ClimatronicPQ35 130 1213
   Revision: 00130023    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 7BB6EBC73A8B4E5E46-802E

4 Faults Found:
00457 - Central Electronics Control Module / BCM (J519)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00716 - Air recirculation Flap Positioning Motor (V113)
            000 - - - Intermittent
01592 - Air Quality Sensor (G238)
            010 - Open or Short to Plus
01316 - ABS Control Module
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels:. 3C0-937-049-30-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 3C0 937 049 AJ    HW: 3C0 937 049 AJ
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H54 2202
   Revision: 00H54000    Serial number: 01000007872736
   Coding: 01050E2700041500470A00000F00000000095D035C000100000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 05124 123 12345
   VCID: 71AAC9EF68C7340EEC-8024

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K1 955 119 E  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer 070308 021  0501
   Coding: 00038805
   Shop #: WSC 05124

2 Faults Found:
00987 - Lamp for Brake Light; Left (M9)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101100
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 22
                    Mileage: 120044 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2005.09.13
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                        ON
                    Voltage: 13.45 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        OFF

00988 - Lamp for Brake Light; Right (M10)
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101100
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 22
                    Mileage: 120044 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2005.09.13
                    Time: 31:63:63

             Freeze Frame:
                        ON
                    Voltage: 13.40 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        OFF


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 T    HW: 1K0 909 605 T
   Component: 2J AIRBAG VW8   020 2300
   Revision: 05020000    Serial number: 0038PD1SSHVP
   Coding: 0012874
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3D3225DF641F806E38-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME38244E53E

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME3553616FG

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HSME1316405B+

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HSME127C577CL

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 BF    HW: 1K0 953 549 BF
   Component: J0527           051 0100
   Coding: 0000011
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 77BEF7F706A36A3E22-8022

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 920 864 A    HW: 1K0 920 864 A
   Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT 3HL 1212
   Revision: V0002000    Serial number: VWX7Z0H124S04J
   Coding: 0017103
   Shop #: WSC 12345 000 00000
   VCID: 2A181E83859107D66D-807E

2 Faults Found:
00457 - Central Electronics Control Module / BCM (J519)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 22
                    Mileage: 120044 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 14:13:58

01316 - ABS Control Module
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 22
                    Mileage: 120044 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 16:09:01


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 L    HW: 1K0 907 951
   Component: J533  Gateway   H07 0052
   Revision:   H07 01    Serial number: 300108F1001153
   Coding: E9807F060002021002
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 302C0CEBA34D7D06A3-8064

2 Faults Found:
01316 - ABS Control Module
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00110100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 21
                    Mileage: 120044 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 16:09:02

00457 - Central Electronics Control Module / BCM (J519)
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00110100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 21
                    Mileage: 120044 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2000.00.00
                    Time: 14:13:59


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 920 864 A    HW: 1K0 920 864 A
   Component: IMMO            3HL 1212
   Revision: V0002000    Serial number: VWX7Z0H124S04J
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2A181E83859107D66D-807E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels:. 1K0-959-701-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 701 P    HW: 1K0 959 793 L
   Component: J386  TUER-SG FT    1133
   Revision: 32008001    Serial number: 00000585388305
   Coding: 0000180
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3B362BC77A0B8E5E06-806E

1 Fault Found:
00932 - Electric Window Motor; Drivers Side (V147)
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100101
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 14
                    Mileage: 0 km
                    Time Indication: 0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V3.clb
   Part No: 1K1 909 144 M
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.068 H08 1901
   Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
   VCID: 35223DFF5C2F582EF0-8060

1 Fault Found:
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal
            004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Mileage: 120030 km
                    Temperature: 22.0°C
                    Voltage: 12.20 V
                    Voltage: 12.00 V


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MAX.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 433 BT    HW: 1K0 959 433 BT
   Component:    KSG PQ35 G2  020 0204
   Revision: 00020000    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 80900A0001060C7F2D04840560084F03E0FCA0
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 03469327427B369E0E-8056

   Subsystem 1 - Component:   Sounder n.mounted    

   Subsystem 2 - Component:       NGS n.mounted    

   Subsystem 3 - Component:      IRUE n.mounted    

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels:. 1K0-959-702-MIN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 702 P    HW: 1K0 959 792 L
   Component: J387  TUER-SG BT    1133
   Revision: 32008001    Serial number: 00000120588226
   Coding: 0000180
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3C3428DB7F0589660F-8068

1 Fault Found:
00933 - Electric Window Motor; Passenger Side (V148)
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100101
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 12
                    Mileage: 0 km
                    Time Indication: 0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.lbl
   Part No: 1K0 035 186 AD
   Component: Radio GR0       034 0033
   Revision: 0003404S    Serial number: VWZ2Z2H5438433
   Coding: 0040400
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 689CA48B5B1DF5C6BB-803C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left        Labels:. 1K0-959-703-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 703 P    HW: 1K0 959 795 G
   Component: J388   TUER-SG HL   1120
   Revision: 11006001    Serial number: 00000002816306
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3D3225DF641F806E38-8068

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right        Labels:. 1K0-959-704-GEN3.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 959 704 P    HW: 1K0 959 794 G
   Component: J389   TUER-SG HR   1120
   Revision: 11006001    Serial number: 00000002805833
   Coding: 0000144
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 3E3022D369199B7621-806A

2 Faults Found:
00931 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Right (F223)
            008 - Implausible Signal
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101000
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 28
                    Reset counter: 237
                    Mileage: 119923 km
                    Time Indication: 0

01554 - Motors for Central Locking; Rear Doors; Lock
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101100
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 15
                    Reset counter: 237
                    Mileage: 119923 km
                    Time Indication: 0


End----------(Elapsed Time: 01:16, VBatt start/end: 14.4V/14.1V)-----------
Also I tried removing connectors from tail lights / central brake light in turns. Without any results.
Removing brown connector from central electronics made the lights go off. But upon reinsertion and key cycle we returned to square one. No error whatsoever regarding brake pedal sensor or lights that could eventually give me a hint.

Any help is highly appreciated !
 
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   #2  

TFSI

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From your description it looks like the brake lights are receiving partial supply all the time even without pedal being depressed. The brake light switch unit has the F and F47 enclosed, the switch F controls the lights while the F47 should control other functions such as cruise control deactivation when braking during during. I will check supply on the bulbs with brakes unpressed/depressed and do wiring short circuit checks..most likely I will get a dealer brake pedal switch to ensure the basics are right.
 
   #3  

TFSI

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From your description it looks like the brake lights are receiving partial supply all the time even without pedal being depressed. The brake light switch unit has the F and F47 enclosed, the switch F controls the lights while the F47 should control other functions such as cruise control deactivation when braking during during. I will check supply on the bulbs with brakes unpressed/depressed and do wiring short circuit checks..most likely I will get a dealer brake pedal switch to ensure the basics are right.
Correction : "during during should read during driving. sorry typo error
 
   #4  

uberbit

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Thanks you TFSI for the reply!

I managed to sort this out.
The brake pedal switch mounted on the master cylinder has 4 pins, +VDC, GND, and 2 outputs - F47 BrakePedal( which goes to the ecu - in my case a Simos 7.1) , and the fourth pin, F- which is the brake light switch that goes to the Central Electronics module.
In the CE module I could see the voltage output in F47 from sensor as I pressed/depressed the brake pedal. Instead, on the other output the multimeter had no reading. I had to unmount engine ECU to find out that the connector had several wires pulled effectively from the pins, including the one from brake pedal sensor. As the connector cap was superglued, it seems that someone worked before and may have caused these issues by poor manipulating of wiring.

I was mislead by the fact that in Advanced Measurements in 01-Engine I could see when the brake pedal was pressed. Thus, I falsely presumed that the connection between engine ECU and sensor is fine. It seems that the engine ecu gets the brake pedal status from a CAN message. The input form the sensor is used from something other functions. Removing CAN lines from engine ECU resulted in normal functioning of the brake lights. I did that just to test my theory that CE lit brake lights as a result of a CAN message.
After replacing the affected pins from the ecu connector, the problem vanished. Also, the EPC light that randomly lit seems to have settled.

Hope this will help other forum users, as I spend almost 2 working days in sorting this out ( wiring checking for short circuits, lamp checking, current return checking, sensor replacement, central electronics replacement, coding, recoding in various ways, etc. ).
 
   #5  

MartinsX

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I managed to sort this out.
Hope this will help other forum users, as I spend almost 2 working days in sorting this out ( wiring checking for short circuits, lamp checking, current return checking, sensor replacement, central electronics replacement, coding, recoding in various ways, etc. ).
This will help Yourself, too! Each such case solved gives You extra experience that can't be learned by reading books, searching internet etc. ;)
Ten years ago I'd went the same way, maybe.
I remember myself disassembling interior trims and hunting "bad ground connection" in almost new Touran (cople month after end of warranty) back in 2005 or 2006 because brake lights were "half power" lit all the time. :D:D:D Haven't heard about lighting backup functions in case of blown tail marker light bulbs before :D:D:D
Now I'd make a cup of coffee, light a cigarette and sit down to think a bit before starting take things apart ;)
For Your case I opened a label file for engine, used Ctrl+F for "brake" and here we are:
Code:
066,2,Switch Positions I,,xxxxxxx? = Brake Light Switch\nxxxxxx?x = Brake Pedal Switch\nxxxxx?xx = Clutch Pedal Switch\nxxxx?xxx = CCS (Cruise Control System) enabled\nxxx?xxxx = ACC (Adaptive Cruise Control) available\nxx?xxxxx = Main Switch engaged\n??xxxxxx = CCS Status
Quick look in MVB 66 could avoid two days work, maybe :cool:
 
   #6  

uberbit

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As I stated before, I was mislead by the fact that in MVB and AM I could see brake pedal working just fine. Taking things apart is usually my last resort. I'm not particularly keen to be disassembling.
I've checked with CCS, ECM and BCM and from the electronics point of view it was fine. I had six wires ripped from the ECM and no error.
It's all part of the challenges provided by working in the field and that is why I love doing it. That does not exclude the fact that mistakes will be made, less than ideal approach will be chosen in some cases. It's the ride that counts and it makes reaching destination even more satisfying.

Cheers and thanks for the tips! :thumbs:
 
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