Golf 6, 1.6TDI Injector problem-rather urgent matter

[Alkibir]

hi, I recently was driving my Golf 6, 1.6TDI 105 HP CAYC engine, smoothly on the Highway at 120 Km/h on cruise control. Suddenly cruise switched off and car started to loose poweer. I had a OBD gizmo with me and I quickly conncted it and found out that injector number 3 was the culprit. carried on on tickover along the hard shoulder whilst calling a tow. I stoped after 3 to 5 kilometers as I was coming to an area wehre someone else was also broken down and it was climbing up hill. My local mechanic advised me to go for 4 injectors as the other ones probably could go wrong. As here in Portugal injectors are very expensive, I ordered them froma reputable company in Germany. Now, after the replacment, the ECU has no errors but the engine smokes like hell and it sounds rough. We tried then using the 3 original still in working order injectors together with one of the new ones. Recoded, etc. but it was even worst. Now I ahve the new ones, which are recons, it sound a little better but it is still very smoky. In fact so smoky that after a few kilometres the back of the car is black and the exaust is dirty. Eventually, I fear my CAT and DPF as well as EGR will be damaged. Can anyone tell me what went wrong? I think my mechanic uses Delphi for recoding the Injectors. I am thinking that maybe substequent software updates on these Diagnostik/Recoding Equioment are adapted for the retunings used after the Dieselgate modifications. My CAYC engine is till in its original state with probably the last software available in 2016. Waht can I do to solve this problem? I have a technical inspection coming up and I am sure it will fail like this. Mechanic thinks the new injetors are crap. But then I think if it was so the original ones would have worked together with one new one. But they do not. I fear the mechanich might have erased or recoded the engine without realising it or chose a diferent type of engine, like a CAYA or CAYB. Something stinks. Sepcial wehnn all the subsequent work was not even charged. Guilty Feeling? Perhaps? Thank you for your help. Best wishes.

 

[PetrolDave]

We really need to see a full unedited VCDS Auto-Scan to be able to help - so we can see what fault codes your Golf has.

BTW it has to be a VCDS Auto-Scan not a scan done with Delphi or some other tool - as this site is run by Ross-Tech to support VCDS owners.

 

[Alkibir]

We really need to see a full unedited VCDS Auto-Scan to be able to help - so we can see what fault codes your Golf has.

BTW it has to be a VCDS Auto-Scan not a scan done with Delphi or some other tool - as this site is run by Ross-Tech to support VCDS owners.

Thanyk you for your help.
I understand this. I have a problem and I need all the help I can get. So I am searching for good people on every forum, who have the knowledge to help me sort a very expensive affair. It is not about the Delphi Diagnostic equipment. it is about whether there are other procedures which one should take in order to get this engine running. I am not so sure these injectors are that bad. If I had a reputable business in a country like Germany, I would not risk sending crap injectors to my clients. The seller allredy pointed out that the procedure has not been followed. That is where I would like to know if my 40 years of experience, regularly recycled Motor mechanic has what it takes to change injectors on my car or not.
There are no erros on the ECU. There was when the car broke down. It was Glow Plug ligt permanentely on and some minutes later MIL Light permanently on. No accelaration possible. Error was P0203.
I think that maybe 2 possibilities arise.
a) wrong engine type chosen. CAYB instead of CAYC.
b) after Dieselgate modifications Dignostic Tuning Companies updated their software to accomodate for different injection values on the newer vehicles and after Mod vehicles. Based on the assunption that all countries would modify their Golfs. Not the case here. Portugal has remain tolerant on the matter as there are thousands of cars of diferent makes with the same problem as well as boat engines etc. To penalise people like me woiuld be unffair. So we wait until these cars dye. Most have.
Thank you

 

[PetrolDave]

it is about whether there are other procedures which one should take in order to get this engine running.

And to answer that we need to know how exactly your Golf is equipped (hardware and software versions of ECUs, etc.) which is why we need to see a full unedited VCDS Auto-Scan.

 

[Alkibir]

ok. that will be difficult. I would have to spend 500 euros to buy the program and interface. No one here thayt I know of uses this kind of software. I feel it is all about selling this program. Thanks pal. much apreciated.

 

[PetrolDave]

I feel it is all about selling this program.

Not at all, this site has been setup by Ross-Tech (the developers of VCDS) to support their customers (like me), so it's not really unexpected that if you want help here you need to be a VCDS owner.

Your best bet is to join one or more of the Golf owners forums as another owner MIGHT have experienced the same problem and be able to help?

 

[iichel]

white smoke, red smoke, blue smoke, green smoke, pink smoke black smoke? Did you enter the correction values for each injector? Did you replace the copper rings at the bottom and stretch bolts? Clean the injector holes?

 

[Alkibir]

pitch black smoke as far as I can see on my back window and Rear mirrors. As far as I believe they did enter the correct codes. I was not there to see it.
Dont know about correction values as with the injectors, it only arrived delivery notes and a test sheet for each injector with a reminder of the Codes. What are these correction values themselves and where should they have been? Are they suppliedusually by the Injector suppliers? Never had a problem like this before so I do not know.

 

[iichel]

My recommendations:
- Get a Hex V2 enthusiast for about 200 euros (I promise you won't regret it, your golf 6 can become a completely new car and you can save hundreds of euros on garage bills)
--> https://store.ross-tech.com/shop/vchv2_ent/
--> or buy at your Portugese distributor with translations --> https://www.ross-tech.com/distributors.php
With the official VCDS interface you'll enjoy full support on the forum for retrofits, repairs and tweaks.

- Make a scan of the car and post it here

- Make very sure the correct procedure for replacing the injectors is followed:
1 remove old injectors
2 clean the hole the injector sits in very very thougoughly, i.e. with a brass wire brush. it must be completely free of any carbon particulates
3 put in the new injector with a new copper ring at the bottom and a new stretch bolt
4 connect the high pressure line, low pressure return and electrical connector to the injectors

- Enter the correction values supplied either by the seller (if second hand and tested) or written on the injector themselves. It's a HEX number of 6 digits, i.e. aa12bb

You must do this in the engine control unit, login with security access (27971) and go to adaptations

- Run the fuel pump with the engine not running using VCDS (output tests) to purge any air

- Start the engine

 

[Alkibir]

iichell, thank you for your advice. And no disrespect to you or anybody. Here where I am, money is an issue, specially since I am no longer working because orf this s.... corona story. I bought the car when times were better. Still paid in 6 years. Took care of it and runn it in to perfection after having spoken to Volkswagen because the Dealer and a lot of idiots new cars do not need running in. BS... They do as as 50 Years ago. So I did. Until this misfortune with number three injector it was running perfectly and doing 5.9 Liters per hundred at 120 Km/H.
All that you advice was done throughly. I am sure. These guys are relatively good. Besides, my car has been a garage car for 10 years, I don't run it in the country side in dusty conditions and it get clean regularly, I had a look prior to going in and the engine was cleaner than the pavemnet you probably thraed on when you step out of your house. It came back also very clean. So the cleaning is not an issue.
The codes you mention, which by the looks of it people call correction values, were all in correctly. I hd it checked by someone else afterwards juts to make sure.
I watch meanwhile a training video from BOSCH about injectors and codes. And guess what? the ECU adjust itself even without codes. The software needs the codes in order to register 4 injectors within istself and know what to do next in relation to those numbers. It could just as well be A1234, B1234, C1234 and D1234. It works believe me. There is a Video somewhere where this was tried using VCDS already and it works. The ECU adjusted itself to the fake numbers and strangely enough to better values than the ones with the right codes. Can you imagine? How many millions of codes with their respective values wiuld have to be stored in teh ECU? Waht about new values from Recons etc? The injectors have no chips built in so their is no information on them. The ECU firmware, simply is prepared to run constant checks on the injectors and adjust itself all the way to death of these parts. Waht burnt the injector Piezoactuator was probably a manufacturing fault or (and I hope not) a fault elsewhere. Strangly here is that now, using the 3 still in good condition injectors, together with on of the new recons the car runs even worst. The more I read through the web about it the more I get to the conlcusion that things are not always as they paint it to be.
You mention a security access. Well with Brain Bee Connex from Mahle, they just gon in the ECU with no Security Access codes at all. With Delphi it is the same... Nonetheless, security codes or not, the engine is bad and I ahve already spent 1000 euros on it. It seems I am now going to spend another 1200 on different injectors plus labiur in order to find out what is wrong. I presume I ahve to get the SVDS just to be curious. It costs €249 plus postage. and I ahve to wait another week before it is here.
Thank you for your kind help and explanations. Much apreciated. Take care.

 

[Alkibir]

By the way. I am going to disconnect the battery for half an hour and reconnect to see what heppens.

 

[Alkibir]

@iichel, tell me... Does it cost €200 euros in Holland? Any chance there might be a genuine VCDS selling cheaper over there because the guy no longer has a VW car?

 

[iichel]

In holland, a HEX V2 with 3 VINs is 313 euros --> https://www.randstadcarsolutions.nl/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63

 

[PetrolDave]

A genuine HEX-V2 with 2 VINs left is currently on eBay for £200.

 

[Larry Manton]

Might be something as simple as mechanic left copper bushing in the head, then put in injector with another.
Spray pattern is then disrupted thus causing massive smoke, ask me how I know.
Best of luck.



Larry

 

[Alkibir]

Larry, might be true, however, I check the injector heights. Are all the same. But... if that would be the case then that means he had difficulties in extracting the copper washers? Another question, waht is the correct thicness of these washers? Are they diffrenet from engine to engine? Make to Make? I am now very curious. These washers have pins on the inside so they grab on to the Injector nosle or not? Almost impossible to leave in. But ...

 

[Alkibir]

A genuine HEX-V2 with 2 VINs left is currently on eBay for £200.

Where? In Europe?

 

[PetrolDave]

Where? In Europe?

In the UK, will post to Europe.

 

[morris39]

This series of posts wouild be amusing if were not sad . Patience by the staff /pthers is impressive. Maybe move to Uwe's Bar?

 

[iichel]

If I could save a couple of hundred euros by being a bit cheeky, I'd also consider it :P