Output Tests: VCDS toggles Test every ~5s.

   #1  

WebCF

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Hi,

I first posted this issue at PCI-Diagnosetechnik (https://forum.vcdspro.de/index.php?/topic/36207-ansteuerdauer-stellglieddiagnose/) and they said, I should this problem here.

VCDS 20.4.1 (recent german version).

Since I ever used the output test, I noticed, that VCDS toggles the test every 5s. regardles of what I set for the Interval time. This was never a problem to me, since I thought this toggle is triggered by the ECU. But I had to bleed an 2.0 cr TDI (SUperb 3T) after changing the fuel filter. To bleed the system, I just had the small helper-pump next to the engine. This pump can be turned on by the Output test. But every 5s in switched off, 5s later it turned back on, then off, on, off, on, off, on...
I had no option to change the timer settings since just one option was enabled and selected, the other one was greyed out. The Time-input field was set to 30s (default). With this behaviour, I can't bleed all the air out of the system. So I tried it again with VCP. Same options ->Output test -> fuel pump -> Start. And voilà! The pump tunred on and stayed on until I switched it off via VCP.

So, why is VCDS turning the pump on and off every ~5 seconds? Bug or misunderstood by me?

The ECU is an UDS one:

Code:
Adresse 01: Motorelektronik (J623-CFGB)       Labeldatei:. DRV\03L-906-018-CFF.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 03L 906 018 CJ    HW: 03L 906 018 BR
   Bauteil: R4 2,0L EDC   H25 9824
   Revision: 42H25---    Seriennummer:             
   Codierung: 001D0012043400080000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 12345 123 12345
   ASAM Datensatz: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018CJ 003007
   ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018CJ.rod
   VCID: F4A49C135FD8C1269E-80A0

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0
Thanks in advance! :)

EDIT: If it helps, I could create a video.
 
   #2  

PetrolDave

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A full Auto-Scan would be the first thing I suspect that the guys at Ross-Tech will ask for :thanks:
 
   #3  

NEtech

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In most cases Basic Settings is used for this.
As far as I know a special security access is needed for this Basic Settings, IDE00459
Normally running for 30 Sec.
Use the English VCDS ver. 20.4.2, Copy this file to C:\Ross-Tech\VCDS\Labels\User
First enter shown SA: S12345
Then start BS IDE00459
 
   #4  

WebCF

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A full Auto-Scan would be the first thing I suspect that the guys at Ross-Tech will ask for :thanks:
Basic settings does not had an option for triggering the fuel pump. For that ECU only output Tests had an entry.

Code:
Donnerstag,06,August,2020,19:48:04:25454
VCDS -- Windows-basierter VAG/VAS-Emulator läuft auf Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: DRV 20.4.1.1  HEX-NET CB: 0.4513.4
Datenstand: 20200518 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.de


Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: TMBJF93T8D9048781   KFZ-Kennzeichen:
Kilometerstand: 89600km   Reparaturauftrag: roman rcd360



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Fahrzeugtyp: 3T-SK46 (7N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 10 15 16 17 19 25 36 42 44 46 47 52 55 56 62
          69 72

Fahrzeug-Ident.-Nr.: TMBJF93T8D9048781   Kilometerstand: 89600km

01-Motorelektronik -- Status: i.O. 0000
02-Getriebe -- Status: i.O. 0000
03-Bremsenelektronik -- Status: i.O. 0000
04-Lenkwinkelsensor -- Status: i.O. 0000
08-Klima-/Heizungsel. -- Status: i.O. 0000
09-Zentralelektrik -- Status: i.O. 0000
10-Einparkhilfe 2 -- Status: i.O. 0000
15-Airbag -- Status: i.O. 0000
16-Lenkradelektronik -- Status: i.O. 0000
17-Schalttafeleinsatz -- Status: i.O. 0000
19-Diagnoseinterface -- Status: i.O. 0000
25-Wegfahrsperre -- Status: i.O. 0000
36-Sitzverst. Fahr. -- Status: i.O. 0000
42-Türelektr. Fahrer -- Status: i.O. 0000
44-Lenkhilfe -- Status: i.O. 0000
46-Komfortsystem -- Status: i.O. 0000
47-Soundsystem -- Status: i.O. 0000
52-Türelektr. Beifahr. -- Status: i.O. 0000
55-Leuchtweitenreg. -- Status: i.O. 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Fehler 0010
62-Türelektr. hi. li. -- Status: i.O. 0000
69-Anhänger -- Status: i.O. 0000
72-Türelektr. hi. re. -- Status: i.O. 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 01: Motorelektronik (J623-CFGB)       Labeldatei:. DRV\03L-906-018-CFF.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 03L 906 018 CJ    HW: 03L 906 018 BR
   Bauteil: R4 2,0L EDC   H25 9824
   Revision: 42H25---    Seriennummer:              
   Codierung: 001D0012043400080000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 12345 123 12345
   ASAM Datensatz: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018CJ 003007
   ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018CJ.rod
   VCID: F4A49C135FD8C1269E-80A0

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 02: Getriebe        Labeldatei: DRV\02E-927-770.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 02E 300 058 L    HW: 02E 927 770 AL
   Bauteil: GSG DSG AG6     512 3508
   Revision: 05651213    Seriennummer: 00001301160452
   Codierung: 0000020
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00083
   VCID: A306AF4F62B6169EB7-80F6

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 03: Bremsenelektronik (J104)       Labeldatei:. DRV\1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 1K0 907 379 BL    HW: 1K0 907 379 BL
   Bauteil: ESP MK60EC1   H31 0152
   Revision: 00H31001  
   Codierung: 843D601609260002211206EC901A0042350000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00083
   VCID: FDB2B9376492806EE1-80A8

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 08: Klima-/Heizungsel. (J255)       Labeldatei:| DRV\5K0-907-044.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 3T0 907 044 BS    HW: 3T0 907 044 BS
   Bauteil: Climatronic   H19 0608
   Revision: 00001007  
   Codierung: 0010000002
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00083
   ASAM Datensatz: EV_Climatronic A01010
   ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_SK46.rod
   VCID: 8444CCD30F78F1A6AE-80D0

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 09: Zentralelektrik (J519)       Labeldatei:. DRV\1K0-937-08x-09.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 1K0 937 087 AG    HW: 1K0 937 087 AG
   Bauteil: BCM PQ35  H+  111 0709
   Revision: AD111709  
   Codierung: 40010AB8E80508C040080080710089E4437000AE736D85605C8140000040
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00999
   VCID: F6A0A61B41A4D336A0-80A2

   Subsystem 1 - Teilenummer: 3T1 955 119 B  Labeldatei: DRV\1KX-955-119.CLB
   Bauteil: Wischer 19031  26  0700
   Codierung: 00D7B7

   Subsystem 2 - Teilenummer: 1K0 955 559 AH  Labeldatei: DRV\1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
   Bauteil: RLS 200313 05  54  0403
   Codierung: 0630ED

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 10: Einparkhilfe 2 (J791)       Labeldatei:. DRV\1T0-919-475.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 3T0 919 475 C    HW: 3T0 919 475 C
   Bauteil: PARKHILFE PLA H08 0005
   Revision: --------    Seriennummer: 13931307701399
   Codierung: 118108
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00083
   VCID: BD3279372412406EA1-80E8

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 15: Airbag        Labeldatei: DRV\5N0-959-655.lbl
   Teilenummer SW: 3T0 959 655 D    HW: 3T0 959 655 D
   Bauteil: J234__LDA VW10 HI   2118
   Revision: 24019000    Seriennummer: 003LEP3LWC13
   Codierung: 0017473
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00083
   VCID: C2C80ACB9DEC3F96DC-8096

   Subsystem 1 - Seriennummer: 6332MTS627190713

   Subsystem 2 - Seriennummer: 6342MTS626970713

   Subsystem 3 - Seriennummer: 6351HTS61EIPRBKR

   Subsystem 4 - Seriennummer: 6361HTS6D48FRBKR

   Subsystem 5 - Seriennummer: 63727TS6G684RBKR

   Subsystem 6 - Seriennummer: 00000000000000000

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 16: Lenkradelektronik (J527)       Labeldatei:| DRV\5K0-953-569.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 5K0 953 521 AQ    HW: 5K0 953 569
   Bauteil: LENKS.MODUL   014 0140
   Revision: FF010041    Seriennummer: 20130312800122
   Codierung: 5880140000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00999
   ASAM Datensatz: EV_SMLSNGVOLWSXS A01004
   ROD: EV_SMLSNGVOLWS.rod
   VCID: FBB6B72F72868E5EDF-80AE

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 17: Schalttafeleinsatz (J285)       Labeldatei:| DRV\5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
   Teilenummer SW: 3T1 920 841 K    HW: 3T1 920 841 K
   Bauteil: KOMBI         H06 0608
   Seriennummer: 00000000000000
   Codierung: 111F01
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00083
   ASAM Datensatz: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04114
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_SK46.rod
   VCID: BB36772F32064E5E9F-80EE

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 19: Diagnoseinterface (J533)       Labeldatei:. DRV\7N0-907-530-V2.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 7N0 907 530 AK    HW: 7N0 907 530 AF
   Bauteil: J533  Gateway H52 1642
   Revision:   H52       Seriennummer: 200313F1002487
   Codierung: 359302
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 50597 000 1048576
   VCID: F9BAAD2770BABC4ECD-80AC

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 25: Wegfahrsperre (J334)       Labeldatei:| DRV\5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234
   Bauteil: IMMO          H06 0608
   Seriennummer: 00000000000000
   Codierung: 000000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Datensatz: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03009
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09_VW31.rod
   VCID: EA98826B0D1C07D634-80BE

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 36: Sitzverst. Fahr. (J810)       Labeldatei: 3C0-959-760.lbl
   Teilenummer SW: 3C8 959 760 C    HW: 3C8 959 760 C
   Bauteil: Sitzmemory    H05 2901
   Revision: 00H05000  
   Codierung: 00003B
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 12336 024 394758
   VCID: B52261171C22982E69-80E0

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 42: Türelektr. Fahrer (J386)       Labeldatei:. 8X0-959-793.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 8X0 959 793 H    HW: 8X0 959 793 H
   Bauteil: TSG FA        H10 0415
   Revision: --------    Seriennummer: --------------
   Codierung: 011D0220DE00001000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00999
   VCID: D2E83A8B8D8CAF166C-8086

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 44: Lenkhilfe        Labeldatei: DRV\1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
   Teilenummer: 1K0 909 144 P
   Bauteil: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 196    3305
   Revision: 00H22000  
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00083
   VCID: B73E6B1FC62E6A3E7B-80E2

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 47: Soundsystem (R12)       Labeldatei: 5K0-035-456.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 5C6 035 456     HW: 5C6 035 456
   Bauteil: KonzernAmp10K H07 0468
   Revision: --------    Seriennummer: EAA083A0108968
   ASAM Datensatz: EV_AudioVerst10KanalBNO1 A01003
   ROD: EV_AudioVerst10KanalBNO1_VW32.rod
   VCID: E582F157E40228AE19-80B0

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 52: Türelektr. Beifahr. (J387)       Labeldatei:. 8X0-959-792.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 8X0 959 792 H    HW: 8X0 959 792 H
   Bauteil: TSG BF        H10 0415
   Revision: --------    Seriennummer: --------------
   Codierung: 011D0220DE00001000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00999
   VCID: D1EA3587888AD40E55-8084

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 55: Leuchtweitenreg.        Labeldatei: DRV\5M0-907-357-V2.lbl
   Teilenummer SW: 5M0 907 357 C    HW: 5M0 907 357 C
   Bauteil: AFS-Steuergeraet    0148
   Revision: 00H04000    Seriennummer:              
   Codierung: 1376839
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 35110 377 09999
   VCID: B4245C13D75881265E-80E0

   Subsystem 1 - Teilenummer: 7L6 941 329 B  Labeldatei: 3D0-941-329.CLB
   Bauteil: AFS-Lst.-Modul l    0004
   Codierung: 00000021

   Subsystem 2 - Teilenummer: 7L6 941 329 B  Labeldatei: 3D0-941-329.CLB
   Bauteil: AFS-Lst.-Modul r    0004
   Codierung: 00000021

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 56: Radio (J503)       Labeldatei:. DRV\5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 6RD 035 187 B    HW: 6RD 035 187 B
   Bauteil: Radio         541 5814
   Revision: --------    Seriennummer: VWZZZ4H6290655
   Codierung: 0E020000010005
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 127395 840 08317
   VCID: C6C016DB71C403B6F0-8092

2 Fehlercodes gefunden:
00856 - Antenne; am Radio
            011 - Unterbrechung - Sporadisch
             Umgebungsbedingungen:
                    Fehlerstatus: 00101011
                    Fehlerpriorität: 5
                    Fehlerhäufigkeit: 91
                    Verlernzähler: 240
                    Kilometerstand: 86525 km
                    Zeitangabe: 0
                    Datum: 2014.11.28
                    Zeit: 18:38:09

02873 - Steuergerät für Rückfahrkamerasystem (J772)
            004 - kein Signal/Kommunikation - Sporadisch
             Umgebungsbedingungen:
                    Fehlerstatus: 00100100
                    Fehlerpriorität: 5
                    Fehlerhäufigkeit: 1
                    Verlernzähler: 182
                    Kilometerstand: 86525 km
                    Zeitangabe: 0
                    Datum: 2014.11.28
                    Zeit: 18:39:51


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 62: Türelektr. hi. li. (J388)       Labeldatei:. DRV\8X0-959-795.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 8X0 959 795 D    HW: 8X0 959 795 D
   Bauteil: TSG HL        H07 0415
   Revision: --------    Seriennummer: --------------
   Codierung: 010C00200000001000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00999
   VCID: D0EC30838380DD065A-8084

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 69: Anhänger (J345)       Labeldatei:. DRV\1K0-907-383-V2.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 1K0 907 383 F    HW: 1K0 907 383 F
   Bauteil: ConWysTrailer H07 0100
   Revision: 3A001001    Seriennummer: 00000132425721
   Codierung: 0100000100000000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 00007 223 174336
   VCID: B02C5003E340BD063A-80E4

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adresse 72: Türelektr. hi. re. (J389)       Labeldatei:. DRV\8X0-959-795.clb
   Teilenummer SW: 8X0 959 795 D    HW: 8X0 959 795 D
   Bauteil: TSG HR        H07 0415
   Revision: --------    Seriennummer: --------------
   Codierung: 010C00200000001000
   Betriebsnr.: WSC 33361 790 00083
   VCID: D0EC30838380DD065A-8084

Kein(e) Fehlercode(s) gefunden.

Ende--------(Dauer: 01:15, Batt.-Spannung Start/Ende: 12.4V/12.4V)---------
In most cases Basic Settings is used for this.
As far as I know a special security access is needed for this Basic Settings, IDE00459
Normally running for 30 Sec.
Use the English VCDS ver. 20.4.2, Copy this file to C:\Ross-Tech\VCDS\Labels\User
First enter shown SA: S12345
Then start BS IDE00459
As said: No option for that pump there.

I also had experience with other output tests, that VCDS will trigger on/off every 5s. I dont have exact examples, but if you wish, I'll keep an eye of that.
 
   #5  

Uwe

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So, why is VCDS turning the pump on and off every ~5 seconds? Bug or misunderstood by me?
Are you sure VCDS is doing this, rather than the ECU? Try some other module. I was going to suggest the BCM, but it's not UDS. Maybe the Instrument Cluster?

As said: No option for that pump there.
The data for your ECU indicates it has a Basic Setting for:
IDE00459 -- Transfer Fuel Pump (FP) test

-Uwe-
 
   #6  

Eric

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Please make us a debug 1024 of this happening. I want to see if it's something VCDS is knowingly doing.
 
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   #7  

WebCF

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Hi Uwe, Hi Eric!

thanks for that informations! I‘ll test both things and make a debug session for you.

The same Basic Output channel in VCP made in run continuesly, that was the thing that made me wondering 🤔

I‘ll write back soon!
 
   #8  

WebCF

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Hi. Took some time but today I was able to test that!

It now does not work with VCP either! Thats weird :/ - The normal fiel pump is now new in the dropdown-list and runs only 3-5 s as well! Regardles of ANY setting...

I attached the debug session (since you did not specified any debug level, I started with "1024". This one was always the level Sebastian was giving to the users.

Maybe you see more.

OFFTOPIC: Why is there no Bleeding option of the fiel system for that car available? AFAIK ODISS has.

EDIT: Did not found an upload button for files?? Here is a cloud link for you: https://cloud.kluthr.de/index.php/s/vYVwOYE6aT8JpbK
 
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   #10  

Eric

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Context:
Code:
ASAM ID: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018CJ 003007 (SK46)
ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018CJ.rod
Looks like you're using:
Code:
SOT IDE00786-Relais für Zusatzkraftstoffpumpe
I see VCDS starting the output with (I think) no time limit; then querying the status of the SOT until the end, about 33s later. So it's at least not something that VCDS is doing knowingly.
I wonder, is that SOT the right one to choose for this? Maybe the output test is actually pulsating the output, just like in the old days of the 1.9 TDI ALH when you were testing a relay with the diagnostic tool?
 
   #11  

WebCF

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Maybe. But tjere is no bleesing option anywhere like ODISS has. Neither the main fuel pump at Output Test will be constantly on.

is the bleesing option missing?

What I see is a first-time-fuel-filling option which wants time and liters input but none of my input was accepted.

i cant reproduce a constant activation of the auxiliary fuel pump over VCP today :/
 

WebCF

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Since the new VCDS version there is now the main fuel pump as an option - but it does exactly the same! It switches off/on every 3-5s... Even VCP doesnt work anymore.

There is no option to bleed the system of that car?!

I mailed a new set of debug files to the address Uwe provided. Is there a missing option or did I missed something?

Thanks ;)
 

Eric

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Debug shows the same thing as last time, with
Code:
ASAM ID: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018CJ 003007 (SK46)
ROD: EV_ECM20TDI01103L906018CJ.rod
SOT IDE00217-Relais für Elektrische Kraftstoffpumpe
As Uwe mentionned, there should be a basic setting for
Code:
[*IDE00459*] Transfer Fuel Pump (FP) test
, that sounds more promising.
 

WebCF

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Crap, forgot about Uwe's post. I'll check if there is such an option available..
 
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