CP/ODIS/VCDS questions around CAN gateway swap

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StorableComa

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Hello All,

Looking to get a better understanding of CP, ODIS coding, and VCDS coding in relation to my CAN gateway swap. I'm currently researching a MK7 Halogen to Bi-Xenon retrofit, requiring my CAN Gateway to be replaced. I currently have a 3Q0907530B, and need to replace it with a 3Q0907530C. My understanding is ETKA says the B variant is discontinued and recommends replacement with the C variant anyway. So this should be a direct swap for my VIN/Vehicle.

I've made a current Admap and Hex admap of my system, and am currently calling dealers to get quotes on assistance with CP removal and ODIS along with module swap - This is where my confusion is, as the dealers are coming back saying different things.

One says 2 1/2 hours labor ~$400 to swap and CP/ODIS if I provide the part. Though he says they can't code the module without a download file from a similar setup. Is this where the Admap and Hexnet can take over? Is he just stating I need to reinstate my hex admap values to the new gateway?

The second shop is claiming ~$530ish to complete the swap and coding and claims this is the full coding - though i'm a little hesitant as all 3 dealers i've called so far seemed somewhat confused on the ODIS part (At least in regards to the service writers). I have yet to hear back from the 3rd dealer and assume they're still researching.

What is required from ODIS with this swap? Is it just CP removal/coding so that the system recognizes the new module, or is there something else required that I couldn't do with a Hexnet pro? Any information that could help me understand/explain to the dealerships welcome.
 
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Uwe

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I cannot imagine this taking longer than one hour. So IMO, a fair price would be one hour of labor.

But I'm open to being corrected if someone knows something I don't. :)

-Uwe-
 
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StorableComa

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I cannot imagine this taking longer than one hour. So IMO, a fair price would be one hour of labor.

But I'm open to being corrected if someone knows something I don't. :)

-Uwe-

This is why i'm attempting to get a better understanding. I understand the CAN is the CP gateway, so all modules would need to be registered and updated to the VW mothership, keys probably would need to be reprogrammed. The module itself is just above the brake pedal and easily reached by hand without removing trim. I could easily swap them in the dealer parking lot, and may ask what cost would be just to code.

Just attempting to get a better idea of what wizardry they need to perform, is it just resetting and updating Component protection? Or is there something else they'd need to do that involves their direct line? As stated I have my admaps of the current CAN, and can restore those I believe myself?
 
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StorableComa

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Just a quick update in the odd chance someone else has a similar issue.

CP, Parameterization, and Coding/adaptations are the 3 functions they should be able to complete. Speaking with a user on another forum that had a nightmare of having his BCM replaced, I was informed there is a guided function in the dealer software. They just need to plug in, and click through in order to remove component protection, assign parameters and coding adaptations. Looks like he had to get VWoA and their engineering section involved because the dealer was trying to charge him 6 hours of labor to manually hand enter in all the adaptations. Given this info, I can't see how it would be more than an hour of labor myself - unless the reprogramming flash is that slow.
 
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Uwe

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unless the reprogramming flash is that slow.
I'm not sure why anything would need to be flashed at all. CP and and perhaps SWAP codes?

I would think ODIS has a "Replace Gateway" script.

As stated I have my admaps of the current CAN, and can restore those I believe myself?
You can. It should be quite easy of you've saved them in Raw Hex formal, but I'd be real careful with that because you're installing a different part number Gateway. If I were looking at doing something like that, I'd dump a map from the new Gateway before and compare it to the existing map from the old one before I tried to restore the channels from the old one. But if the dealer does what he's supposed to do, I don't think it will be necessary for you to do anything with the adaptation channels.

Speaking with a user on another forum that had a nightmare of having his BCM replaced
On what kind of car?

-Uwe-
 
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StorableComa

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I'm not sure why anything would need to be flashed at all. CP and and perhaps SWAP codes?

I would think ODIS has a "Replace Gateway" script.
I may be using 'flash' incorrectly in this instance. My understanding is they'll need to plug into the car, use their FAZIT login and then apparently there should be a guided function to remove CP, set module parameters and then module adaptations - I could be speaking to it wrong but that is the quick rundown of my conversation on the topic.


You can. It should be quite easy of you've saved them in Raw Hex formal, but I'd be real careful with that because you're installing a different part number Gateway. If I were looking at doing something like that, I'd dump a map from the new Gateway before and compare it to the existing map from the old one before I tried to restore the channels from the old one. But if the dealer does what he's supposed to do, I don't think it will be necessary for you to do anything with the adaptation channels.
I saved both a conventional admap and a raw hex format admap per DV52's instructions in another thread. Seemed like a handy thing to have. I believe the two gateways are the same with the exception of the latter C model having pins 7 and 17 which are needed for the Bi-xenon shutters. As I will be swapping the CAN before making any hardware or wiring changes, I don't assume there would be too much variation between the two; though I'll default to your wisdom and compare a new admap to my current post install.


On what kind of car?

-Uwe-
2015 GSW TDI. He was going in to have his BCM replaced for upgrade/retrofit reasons. Apparently resulted in them merely swapping the BCM and handing him back the car with non-working keys and errors the first go around, then a repeat trip or two before it was sorted out properly. He believes they merely removed component protection the first time around and never installed the parameters or adaptations to the module. Then followed by the dealer attempting to say they'd have to do all 6000+ish by hand from reading his posts on the topic.
 
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StorableComa

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Why is this here and not in retrofits or tweaks?

My mistake. I figured as this was more information that would pertain to a CAN Failure than to the retrofit portion of why the CAN is being replaced, and the car remaining stock at this portion it would fit. Seeing as PN is a direct replacement, I assumed the dealer would treat it as a CAN failure and follow the "normal" procedure to correct it.

Please move if needed.
 
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MasterTommy

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I see no reason why you would be incorrect. Since the new part belongs in your car according to ETK, it should be a pretty straightforward ‘yes to all’ for the dealer to do with ODIS-online. As far as i know online coding/adaptation/parameterization/CP/FEC checks are always doable, as long as the part number belongs in the vehicle.
 
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darkchina811

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when replacing a gateway, ETKA always defaults to the HIGH version, so you are lucky.

ODIS has a guided function called REPLACE CONTROL MODULE, and all the dealer needs to do is follow the instructions on screen.

gateway coding/admap will revert to factory, so if you have changed something you'll need to re-apply those changes.

the whole procedure takes 30 to 45 mins so 1 hour of labor is a resonable charge.

if your dealer has a problem, the problem is they can't use ODIS. we see it on a weekly basis.
 
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StorableComa

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I see no reason why you would be incorrect. Since the new part belongs in your car according to ETK, it should be a pretty straightforward ‘yes to all’ for the dealer to do with ODIS-online. As far as i know online coding/adaptation/parameterization/CP/FEC checks are always doable, as long as the part number belongs in the vehicle.

when replacing a gateway, ETKA always defaults to the HIGH version, so you are lucky.

ODIS has a guided function called REPLACE CONTROL MODULE, and all the dealer needs to do is follow the instructions on screen.

gateway coding/admap will revert to factory, so if you have changed something you'll need to re-apply those changes.

the whole procedure takes 30 to 45 mins so 1 hour of labor is a resonable charge.

if your dealer has a problem, the problem is they can't use ODIS. we see it on a weekly basis.

Perfect. Thank you both for the information! I feel I have a much better understanding for when I speak with the dealers again.
 
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I am the poor sap that had an interesting experience with the dealer replacing the BCM on my 2015 TDI S. To start with, I had this same dealer look up the proper replacement BCM for my VIN in ETKA, which I then ordered. I don't remember exactly but I think I was quoted 2.5 hours for the BCM swap, which I was okay with. I have made some coding changes, but the only change that would cause errors if coding was returned to stock is the Mk7.5 LED tails. I have full coding and ad-map scans of my car in (mostly) stock form but also took an auto-scan and full ad-map read before dropping the car off. No faults except something in 5F.

Get the car back in the afternoon and drive home. Faults for rear lights when backing into my garage, as expected. Checked long coding (correct) and take an ad-map before I begin making the LED tail light changes. When I first made the LED tail light changes I wrote down the original values of each channel on the coding sheet. First red-flag is that my new original values don't match my old original values. Decided to hold-off on the tail light coding, called it a night. Went to lock the car... neither key worked. Quick auto-scan showed faults for remote key :banghead:.

Compared my post BCM change ad-map to my mostly stock ad-map, several hundred differences, :banghead: again. Noticed some new (non-functional) menus in the infotainment and also a ton of bulb warnings when I turned on the headlights. Looking through the ad-map, channel setting matched those of a lighting package car. Couldn't get an appointment for a week so I drove my other car.

Finally drop the car off, tell them that my keys don't work and that BCM had not been adapted to my car. They said "okay" and sent me on my way. Come back a couple days later to pick up. Key fobs now work, but I don't get the horn on lock/unlock. Turn on the headlights, same bulb warnings. I walk back in, tell them adaptations still haven't been done and I'm not taking the car. They are booked for the next week but promise to put their "guy who knows about VCDS and this kind of stuff" on it. At this point I have emailed them the differences output HTML from WinMerge, along with an explanation of the problems I've noticed.

Get a call about 10 days later that my car is ready but the issues haven't been corrected for the following reasons:
1) The new BCM part number doesn't match the old one (yes, I am aware) and all cars are not the same so there may be some errors. :facepalm:
I point them to the ETKA printout they gave me which shows the part number and explain that coding/adaptations are the reason the same part can be used in multiple vehicles/configurations of the same vehicle.
2) They cannot troubleshoot all the faults we are seeing unless I return the car to stock
I tell them to ignore the indicated faults. And that once they get my adaptation map to match my car's stock adaptation map I will take it home. But I'm not taking it as.
3) They are several hours beyond their initial quote (not my problem) but their guy who is good with this stuff is willing to manually change the 500+ mismatched channels. He explains to me how he will do it using VCDS :D because their tools will not allow them to manually change anything, and all of this offered just 4 more hours of labor :mad:.
I don't know how much truth is in them not being allowed to manually change anything but I certainly don't want them doing it. At this point I'm past being polite and I tell them all I need is for them to follow the replacement procedure, from start to finish. And that they have already been paid for that work. They say they have done all they can do, but they will open a case with VW engineering about the issues on my car.

I leave the car there. Couple days later I haven't heard anything so I call and they ask me to come in so we can have a conference call with VW engineering :confused:. I go at lunch and we can't get engineering on the phone but one of the techs suggest we call a local audi dealership. We conference call them and the Audi tech says "just follow the guided function and it will do everything for you." :rolleyes:

I go back to work, get a call a couple hours later that the car is ready. My car was parked up front and the service desk handed me my keys and a no-charge invoice. It seemed the service advisor and technicians no longer wanted to talk to me after this ordeal :D. Quite a change as they normally have a ton of questions about the car given other mods and the small number of Mk7 TDI's they see.
 
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StorableComa

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Thank you for all the information, Cuzoe!

I'm still not getting a warm and fuzzy from my dealer, but found a local independent shop near me that is quoting me only 1 to 1 1/2 hour labor (~$150) to recode the CAN with ODIS and code a new key replacement for me. Even when speaking with the original dealership and Tech with all the information I gained, they still are sticking to a 4-4 1/2 hour job at ~$530 to code the can if I swap it for them in the parking lot. Though he did mention it would be the same regardless if I have them swap the can or not... Thinking i'll go with the indy shop.

Thank you again everyone for your information about this process, it was quite informative and helpful in regards to ODIS/FAZIT.
 
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MasterTommy

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I am the poor sap that had an interesting experience with the dealer replacing the BCM on my 2015 TDI S. To start with, I had this same dealer look up the proper replacement BCM for my VIN in ETKA, which I then ordered. I don't remember exactly but I think I was quoted 2.5 hours for the BCM swap, which I was okay with. I have made some coding changes, but the only change that would cause errors if coding was returned to stock is the Mk7.5 LED tails. I have full coding and ad-map scans of my car in (mostly) stock form but also took an auto-scan and full ad-map read before dropping the car off. No faults except something in 5F.

Get the car back in the afternoon and drive home. Faults for rear lights when backing into my garage, as expected. Checked long coding (correct) and take an ad-map before I begin making the LED tail light changes. When I first made the LED tail light changes I wrote down the original values of each channel on the coding sheet. First red-flag is that my new original values don't match my old original values. Decided to hold-off on the tail light coding, called it a night. Went to lock the car... neither key worked. Quick auto-scan showed faults for remote key :banghead:.

Compared my post BCM change ad-map to my mostly stock ad-map, several hundred differences, :banghead: again. Noticed some new (non-functional) menus in the infotainment and also a ton of bulb warnings when I turned on the headlights. Looking through the ad-map, channel setting matched those of a lighting package car. Couldn't get an appointment for a week so I drove my other car.

Finally drop the car off, tell them that my keys don't work and that BCM had not been adapted to my car. They said "okay" and sent me on my way. Come back a couple days later to pick up. Key fobs now work, but I don't get the horn on lock/unlock. Turn on the headlights, same bulb warnings. I walk back in, tell them adaptations still haven't been done and I'm not taking the car. They are booked for the next week but promise to put their "guy who knows about VCDS and this kind of stuff" on it. At this point I have emailed them the differences output HTML from WinMerge, along with an explanation of the problems I've noticed.

Get a call about 10 days later that my car is ready but the issues haven't been corrected for the following reasons:
1) The new BCM part number doesn't match the old one (yes, I am aware) and all cars are not the same so there may be some errors. :facepalm:
I point them to the ETKA printout they gave me which shows the part number and explain that coding/adaptations are the reason the same part can be used in multiple vehicles/configurations of the same vehicle.
2) They cannot troubleshoot all the faults we are seeing unless I return the car to stock
I tell them to ignore the indicated faults. And that once they get my adaptation map to match my car's stock adaptation map I will take it home. But I'm not taking it as.
3) They are several hours beyond their initial quote (not my problem) but their guy who is good with this stuff is willing to manually change the 500+ mismatched channels. He explains to me how he will do it using VCDS :D because their tools will not allow them to manually change anything, and all of this offered just 4 more hours of labor :mad:.
I don't know how much truth is in them not being allowed to manually change anything but I certainly don't want them doing it. At this point I'm past being polite and I tell them all I need is for them to follow the replacement procedure, from start to finish. And that they have already been paid for that work. They say they have done all they can do, but they will open a case with VW engineering about the issues on my car.

I leave the car there. Couple days later I haven't heard anything so I call and they ask me to come in so we can have a conference call with VW engineering :confused:. I go at lunch and we can't get engineering on the phone but one of the techs suggest we call a local audi dealership. We conference call them and the Audi tech says "just follow the guided function and it will do everything for you." :rolleyes:

I go back to work, get a call a couple hours later that the car is ready. My car was parked up front and the service desk handed me my keys and a no-charge invoice. It seemed the service advisor and technicians no longer wanted to talk to me after this ordeal :D. Quite a change as they normally have a ton of questions about the car given other mods and the small number of Mk7 TDI's they see.

Next time don’t mention that you made any changes and accept that all your changes are reverted to stock. Because if you do, the process gets complicated because nobody will start a guided function (because it teverts everything back to stock) which will result in going back again and again for every step that they didnt do. Guided function does it all, making your changes later in a few minutes with vcds is a better bargain.
 
   #16  

Cuzoe

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For sure, I didn't mention any changes to them prior to dropping off the car. No changes were mentioned until they told me the faults were because my car wasn't stock. They also wanted to know how I knew something was wrong. Sadly this required an explanation of the difference between long coding and adaptations.

I expected and was perfectly okay with everything being as-stock when I got the car back. I knew I would have faults for the reverse lights but I didn't tell them that. Re-doing my changes is simple, and is the reason I pulled an ad-map right before dropping the car off. My plan was to re-do tail light coding then go through the Winmerge report and re-do any other changes I have made over the years. All I wanted was for them to complete the guided function and give me my car back with the new BCM installed, coded/adapted just how the car came from the factory. It took almost a month and several visits but that's eventually what I got :D.

My multiple visits were because they couldn't the car back to stock programming. I don't expect them to re-do my changes and would not ask (or want) them to even attempt it.
 
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