2005 mk4 jetta tdi 5-spd 09A Transmission issue

   #1  

obamachicken

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So let me start off with what I need your guys help with and why i'm making this thread. My 2005 mk4 jetta tdi has started to shift really funny between 3rd and 4th gear. Now the issue is that it will be in 3rd and as its about to shift to 4th gear, it looses all power to the wheels and the rpm's shoot up and will not resume power until you let go of the gas and let if shift itself back into 3rd (I think). This will happen out of nowhere and it's unpredictable when it will do it. Today it did it five times back to back within the time span of 20 min. It will not do this when you let go of the gas at the peak of 3rd to let it shift to 4th. To give the closest explanation of what it feels like is like the transmission or clutch slips and misses 4th gear and just spins until the car realizes this and put's itself back into 3rd and acts like nothing every happened. I have had a transmission temperature sensor- implausible signal code before, but it's not there now. I drove around with my dad in the passenger seat watching vcds while this happened but he saw nothing that indicated a problem. He watched the solenoid behavior but we think the hex-net is quite delayed as shifts happened a few seconds before vcds showed anything. To be honest, we don't even know what to look for in vcds. Most troubling is that there are no codes whatsoever. I have a new scan of my car today as listed below.
Code:
Tuesday,17,February,2015,18:51:33:31462
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.1.1 (x64)
Data version: 20150130


VIN: 3VWSR69M25M033882   License Plate: 
Mileage: 246310km-153049mi   Repair Order: autoscan 2/17/15



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 9M (9M - VW Jetta IV (1998 > 2014))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57
          75 76
 
VIN: 3VWSR69M25M033882   Mileage: 246310km-153049miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
   Part No SW: 038 997 016 R    HW: 028 101 181 2
   Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000AG  0282  
   Revision: 12345678    Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0331077
   Coding: 0150034
   Shop #: WSC 05232 444 85902
   VCID: AD124E4B356B5849756-5184

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09A-927-750.lbl
   Part No: 09A 927 750 BL
   Component: AG5 Getriebe 09A   0262   
   VCID: F6A0A127D0BD5B91C4C-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102  
   Coding: 0019458
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: B4245B2FD64109813A8-5184

1 Fault Found:
01423 - Lateral Acceleration Sensor (G200) 
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
   Component: 04 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003  
   Coding: 12340
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: A71EBC63479772198FA-5160

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+ 
            07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J5 920 906 R
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V57  
   Coding: 04234
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: BC34730FAE11C1C1F28-5160
   3VWSR69M25M033882     VWZ7Z0D0331077

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: F0AC973FB2D975A11E0-5160

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
   Component: 1H Komfortgerát HLO 0004  
   Coding: 00258
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: B73E6C239737E2991FA-4B3C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0202  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
   Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0202  

3 Faults Found:
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
            54-00 - Incorrectly Equipped
00930 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Left (F222) 
            27-00 - Implausible Signal
00931 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Rear Right (F223) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 08:55)--------------------------
We also got a recorded log of it when the shift issue happened but to me it doesn't seem very helpful
Code:
Tuesday,17,February,2015,18:39:39:31462
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.1.1 (x64)
Data version: 20150130





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Address 02: Auto Trans  (09A 927 750 BL)

18:39:28
  31.4 %   Solenoid Valve 6 (N93)
  72.0*C   ATF Temperature 
  13.37 V   Battery Voltage 
  4.6 %   Solenoid Valve 4 (N91)
  00001100   Condition of Solenoid Valves
  N/A   Multi-Function Switch
  1728 /min   Transmission Speed (G182)
  20.0 %   Accelerator Pedal
I also have a video of my car doing it. (don't listen to me say the gears because I am off so I put a text to help with that

Honestly I hope I explained this all clearly enough because I have searched the web from top to bottom to try and find the cause of this and nobody is giving a definite answer mainly because it could be alot of things. I'm 18 and I bought this car with my own money, I don't have enough money to take it to the shop for the weekend and hope that they find a solution. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated and I thank you all very much.
 
   #2  

DrPeter

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Hello,

You may want to start with the basics, like:

- Visual inspection or wiring, connections, shift controls, etc..

- Condition of the transmission fluid (discolored/contaminates, etc..)

- Transmission fluid level (Must be check on level ground and at the correct temperature (35C to 45C, see Measuring Value Block 002, field 3), Consult the Factory Repair manuals and Self-Study Program - 5-speed Automatic Gearbox 09A
--- Correct part number for the fluid is [G 052 990 A2]


If the above is correct, there maybe an internal concern with the transmission, such as a valve body/solenoid issue. This can be sometimes difficult to properly diagnose without further inspection of the transmission.

Shifting from 3rd to 4th involves the disengagement of the N89 solenoid and the engagement of the N92 solenoid, so maybe one of these valves is not be functioning correctly.

Hope this helps,

drpeter
 
   #3  

Jack@European_Parts

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It doesn't cost a ton of money to do above as Peter recommended.

You could swap noids and mark them to see if they will move a fault or condition created.

I have found that in many gear boxes that the fluid and filters are contaminated causing many and most issues.

VB's mostly never fail and are dirty........ if cleaned usually will come around ........I am sure many will disagree and that's fine I don't care.

There are few parts to wear and sometimes a piston for selection but mostly its a noid stuck from dirt which is why no code.

I have been experimenting with different fluids to see what would help clean or free up a unit.

Most recently over the last few years I have run Pentosin 202 hydraulic fluid in all my transmissions......... from the electrohydraulic racks.
It works rather well for freeing up such issues, and I have found no determent to any VW-Audi or American/jap cars I have installed it.
On many 01V cars we have corrected the TQ converter stuck off issue and other shift issues on many cars.

This fluid is considerably thinner and gets in as a cleaning agent to lubricate a stuck area.

Taking noids out and soaking them is also a great thing to do and bench test them to move visually verified.
Common sense goes a long way when no funds are present.

The factory will try to tell you that other fluids cant be used and I used to believe them. I can tell you through personal testing they are full of BS.
Just a creative way to charge upwards of 25 USD a liter..............smoking mirrors.

Today seems to be trans day.

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...ns-is-slamming-when-shifting-2nd-to-3rd/page3
 
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   #4  

roth

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I would drive the car with a VCDS (have someone else look at it), to see if this is really 4th gear. There should be "gear selected" somewhere there. Make sure it is 4th. The reason is that all the clutches in 4th are used in 1/2/3 gears, so you shouldn't have a problem JUST in 4th. It will change something like 1H ->1M->2H->2M, etc. H is for hydraulic, M mechanical (torque converter locked up). Don't accelerate hard, let the tranny shift very softly.

Let me know.

BR, Andy
 
   #5  

Locoelectrician

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We, (he's my son) had the fluid changed at VW less than 1000 miles ago hoping to see if it fixed this issue. The VW tech (A friend of mine) said the fluid that came out looked very good. I agree completely that VW does not hold a patent on magical fluid. When driven very softly, the car will never do it. I was in the passengers seat last night and when I saw it fail he was between 60 and 70% throttle. It just feels like the car goes for 4th and it is not there. I couldnt find and way to see the gear on vcds but i could see the solenoids however they were greatly delayed, perhaps hex-net is not the best for real time diagnosis? In the 90s, I was a tech at a dealership (nissan) and when we would encounter sticking solenoids or valve bodies, we would use JB transmission tune up. Its not the miracle "rebuild in a can", but more simply, a varnish remover, that we had great luck with. Any chance anyone thinks trying a can of something like that is worth a chance? I'm sure we get no codes because electrically, everything is fine, but I'm surprised we dont get something saying the tranny speed does not match road speed or something. As he said, all help is appreciated and if I forgot to answer something that was asked, just ask again. He just turned 18 and the first national bank of dad isn't excited about a big loan. :)
 
   #6  

Jack@European_Parts

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I would try it........ BG makes a chemical called quick clean.
Best results are to remove the VB and soak then lube up.
 
   #7  

Locoelectrician

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I guess my thoughts, and please correct me if i'm wrong, are that removing the solenoids and valve body is quite a job, and if we had to go that deep, it would be senseless not to replace the failing solenoids, and if you're in there, its best to replace all of them. Neither job is one I'm excited to do. I think we will try the additive and see what happens. I can look up the product you mentioned but how do you feel about seafoam? It's available locally. Last question on the additive is, where in the heck do I put it in? No dipstick obviously, so is it pretty simple or are we looking at removing the battery and box? Thanks, we appreciate all the help we can get.
 
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   #9  

Locoelectrician

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So if we choose not to tear it apart at this point, could we just add the product you suggested and run it like that to see if it improves? Or are we wasting our time.
 
   #10  

Jack@European_Parts

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The quick clean can be added but the car cannot be driven with it.
You then dump flush and install fresh fluid.

Personally it isn't that hard to take a pan off and access the VB.
Usually being lazy or not having the manual to even understand how to work on/change/measure fluids........... is a precursor to failure to achieve the goal.
 
   #11  

Jetta 97

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Do you know any history of doing transmission service?
In should be done every 30-40 K, on this transmission only fluid can be change .
The biggest problem on this transmission is filter, It is inside of the middle transmission and only way to replace it is remove transmission open it and replace it.
When transmission has not been serviced 30-40K filter gets clogged and restricting flow.
Also Valve body gets damage at same time.

This is a same type of transmission as Honda had it in 2000-2005 .
 
   #12  

Locoelectrician

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We bought it with 150000 miles. Carfax shows it being at aamco transmission at 119000. The tech that did the fluid change for us said the tranny has been split before. Fluid that came out looked good. It's not that we are too lazy to do the work but more of the fact that it's just me raising my 2 sons while working full time doesn't leave a whole lot of "free time" plus the fact that it's cold as crap out. Garage is heated so I guess if it's considdered best, we can pull the pan this weekend. I would assume I can manually check each solenoid by applying 12v to them to ensure they actuate? Was really hoping I could just add an additive and see how it acts until the weather improves.
 
   #13  

ivagp

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imo you at least need a valve body. the bores get worn, search sonnax.com and punch up your trans. you can also call their tech line. also the steel seals have ruined one of the clutch drums. to get the valve body off is some work on that trany. with the miles you have stated I think your do for a rebuild.
 
   #14  

ivagp

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wow did he post the wrong trany 09a or dose he actually have a dsg trans.
 
   #15  

ivagp

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the scan shows a 09a. jetta,97 are you talking about a dsg.
 
   #16  

Locoelectrician

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Not sure what you mean, but it's the 09a. 5 speed tiptronic auto.
 
   #17  

ivagp

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my initial comment is for 09a trans. I wasn't sure jetta,97 was talking about a dsg trans or 09a. i apologies for the confusion.
 
   #18  

roth

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In my humble (30 wrenching) opinion, you need to diagnose the best you can first and foremost. You mention the tranny does not do it when you go easy on gas. Well, you gotta tell things like this as it makes HUGE difference. The help you going to get is as good as information you provide.

So, first of all, was the problem always there? When it happen, did it happen all of a sudden or gradually, like slipping a little bit, then more and more. Then we go to TCM data, solenoids, clutches and valve bodies.

You are frustrated and want a quick fix. Dump a can of miracle juice and go. It is not going to happen. You have to do things right and only than you will not waste your time and money and maybe learn something along the way.

Regards, Andy
 
   #19  

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He bought the car in August I believe. Since then on 3 or 4 occasions he has come to me and tried to explain what it's doing. He was 17 at the time and a computer nerd who does not speak car lingo very well at all. I've driven the car over and over trying to duplicate the problem. Had the fluid changed as we have no real history on the car and as stated, the old fluid looked good. Has t once done the flare in over a month until yesterday when he called me and said it did it 4 times in a row. He came home and picked me up and for the first time I saw it happen. He always tells me it's under light throttle but while watching on VCDS when it happened he was at about 70%. Sorry if I seem hasty or looking for a magic cure but this is the first time Ive actually witnessed the problem and the way he described it to me was hard to comprehend until I saw it myself. As with most things in life, I would prefer to do the easiest/cheapest things first as I dont believe in just throwing parts at something hoping for a fix. If it can be explained the proper way to diagnose (I'm a locomotive electrician, not a vw tech) it would be greatly appreciated. I'm on board to test anything I need to in order to figure out what's actually wrong. Trust me when I say I am all ears and appreciate any and all help and guidance. Big jobs like dropping the pan and pulling the valve body will be difficult time wise for us though, and yes, being in the business I understand if it fails completely I'm forced to take the time. Hoping it doesn't get to that point and can be resolved. Thanks again.
 
   #20  

Jack@European_Parts

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You could try a slightly thicker hydraulic oil to experiment and see what happens.
I have had good luck adding a 0w-40 mobile 1 to these transmissions with the ATF blended if they are shifting good cold and not hot.

It starts out thin cold so it will work and hot it thickens up the oil to increase PSI.

So far it has helped a few people get back on the road.
 
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