VCDS cable KKL 409.1 (don't shoot!)

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vwparts

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hi gang. I don't expect much help here, but want to support Ross Tech if at all possible. Please, bear with me...

there is a open source Subaru diagnostic/data logging program called ecuExplorer. it requires a vag-com cable KKL 409.1 (from what I gather) I currently have a Hex+CAN cable (legit, as I registered it here) I have a couple of questions. One, is the 409.1 cable available? I see the clones, and although I need this for a different purpose I would much rather buy a genuine cable from Ross-Tech if possible.

Sad but true, i'm NOT pc savvy (but pretty dam good at diagnostics) so I downloaded the ecuExplorer and got it to "work" but I can't communicate with the ECU. So what I am wondering is, is there something "special" about the 409.1 cable and if not, I have to wonder when I plug the VAG-Com cable I have into my computer if it automatically "connects" to the VCDS instead of the ecuExplorer which leads me to my second question...if I uninstall VCDS what do I have to go thru to re-install it? would I be "locked out" of ever using VCDS again?

The VCDS will communicate under the OBD2 tab no problems. Just truing to sort this as I am chasing a drivability issue in a Subaru and even the factory Subaru diagnostics isn't as in depth as ecuExplorer. Again, I will happily buy a genuine 409.1 cable if there is a difference.

thanks for any time/info!
 
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Uwe

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There's nothing particularly special about a "KKL 409.1" cable. It's a "dumb" / "Pass-through" device with no intelligence, so there's no IP to be protected in them.

We have not sold "dumb" cables in more than 15 years, and there's no such thing as a "genuine" KKL 409. So if that's what you need, just buy one from eBay or Amazon, where they are ubiquitous and cheap. I can't recommend a specific one, but I can recommend buying one that's based on an FTDI USB chip; that way you can get drivers directly from FTDI and you have control over the latency timer as shown here:



-Uwe-
 
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MartinsX

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For similar purposes I prefer not "dumb" USB but "dumb" serial interface cable. And computer with real hardware COM port. All those USB things are OS controlled and COM address are virtual, assigned by OS. Hardware COM port has it's own hardware address, assigned by BIOS. So the "low level" diagnostic/logging/programming SW works much more stable and reliable ;)
 
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Uwe

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For similar purposes I prefer not "dumb" USB but "dumb" serial interface cable. And computer with real hardware COM port.
Agreed, but computers with real hardware COM ports are very rare these days, so that's not really an option for most people.

RS232 cables and connectors are also more robust than USB.

-Uwe-
 
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MartinsX

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Some IBM ThinkPad and Dell Latitude series laptops have COM port even on latest models ;)
 
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vwparts

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wow, thank you guys. everything you've said is like Charlie Browns parents...wha wha wha, wha wha :D

I truly appreciate the support. like I said, with the VCDS cable I have, it "appears" to work but won't connect.

so, i'm not sure if I need a "dumb" interface. my confusion lies here:



it says it's assigned to com port 3.

I have a dell E6440 and spent an hour and a half trying to find out where com port 3 is. I just can't figure it out...like I said, PC's aren't my bag unfortunately.

I know...you guys are probably like "haha dummy" :D I deserve that hahaha...

so, does this look like what I may need?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VAG409-VAG...193359208976?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

again, I soooo appreciate the help. i'm trying to diag the "unfixable" according to 2 other shops and a dealer. I have my suspicions on what is wigging out, but want to see it. I hate playing parts darts...
 
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MartinsX

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According specification Your laptop doesn't have a hardware COM port.
So any of those and similar USB dumb interface cables are the only available option with this laptop.
So get the cable, install driver (from FTDI site, like Uwe said, not from CD supplied with cable) and adjust virtual COM port number, speed and other parameters in computer's Device Manager or in configuration/settings of diag SW You will use. It does not matter where You will do this, but settings in both places must match.
 
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vwparts

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well...that sounds over my head haha...but I will try. I will order the one I linked and see if I can make something happen. I will keep you posted, as i'm sure just out of curiosity you'd want to know if I made it work.

will order and update. thanks guys!
 
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grant@gendan

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COM3 tends be be an internal modem or other internal device, it is unlikely to be the VAG KKL cable.
We have quite a few customers using KKL interfaces with ECUexplorer. From memory, it only works with non-CAN Subaru models after the MY2000 facelift and won't work with any earlier cars.

As Uwe suggested, you need to check the COM port number Windows has given your interface.
1. Plug the USB interface into your laptop
2. Click on the Yellow Folder icon at the bottom of your screen to open File Explorer
3. Find 'This PC' in the list on the left
4. RIGHT Click on 'This PC' and select Properties
5. Select 'Device Manager'
6. On the list (alphabetical) find the 'Ports COM & LPT' heading and click the arrow symbol next to it
7. You should see a USB Serial Port listing with a COM port number next to it. This is the COM port number you need to use in the ecuexplorer software.
 
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PetrolDave

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Whenever you connect a USB to serial(RS232) converter to a Windows PC it creates a 'virtual' COM port - which is it what the COM3 OP refers to.
 
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vwparts

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COM3 tends be be an internal modem or other internal device, it is unlikely to be the VAG KKL cable.
We have quite a few customers using KKL interfaces with ECUexplorer. From memory, it only works with non-CAN Subaru models after the MY2000 facelift and won't work with any earlier cars.

As Uwe suggested, you need to check the COM port number Windows has given your interface.
1. Plug the USB interface into your laptop
2. Click on the Yellow Folder icon at the bottom of your screen to open File Explorer
3. Find 'This PC' in the list on the left
4. RIGHT Click on 'This PC' and select Properties
5. Select 'Device Manager'
6. On the list (alphabetical) find the 'Ports COM & LPT' heading and click the arrow symbol next to it
7. You should see a USB Serial Port listing with a COM port number next to it. This is the COM port number you need to use in the ecuexplorer software.
thank you for the reply!

here is what I get



I can plug/unplug my legit Ross Tech HEX+CAN unit in and it doesn't tell me what port is what (unless i'm missing something) that's why I think I need the "dumb" interface.

all I get is the "chime" telling me a USB has been plugged in. I have 2 USB ports on the right, 1 on the left. all 3 "ding" when I plug in, but I can't see what port it's plugged into on the screen in the photo

I am working with a 01 fartster 2.5 NA that is actually in amazing shape, that is why I took the challenge

any thoughts? i'm going to order one I just haven't had time to figure out which one. like I said....totally lost when it comes to PC's
 
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Uwe

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I can plug/unplug my legit Ross Tech HEX+CAN unit in and it doesn't tell me what port is what (unless i'm missing something) that's why I think I need the "dumb" interface.
Correct, the standard drivers we ship with a HEX+CAN interface do not create a virtual COM port.

Notice when you configure it in VCDS, you select USB rather than a COM port? ;)

There was a special (old) version of the drivers for the HEX+CAN that did create a virtual COM port, but those are so dated that I really can't recommend using them.

-Uwe-
 
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vwparts

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Correct, the standard drivers we ship with a HEX+CAN interface do not create a virtual COM port.

Notice when you configure it in VCDS, you select USB rather than a COM port? ;)
correct, that much I knew.

so, i'm not crazy and I do in fact need that "dumb" interface then :thumbs:
 
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vwparts

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well, I think this is going to be DOA guys....

I can't seem to find a 409.1 FT232BL dongle. I have asked a bunch of people selling them and I guess they are "ancient" so I won't be able to do what I wanted...

well, crap....
 
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Uwe

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well, I think this is going to be DOA guys....

I can't seem to find a 409.1 FT232BL dongle. I have asked a bunch of people selling them and I guess they are "ancient" so I won't be able to do what I wanted...

well, crap....
Yeah, the FTDI "B" (and "BL") chips really are ancient and deprecated. But "R" or "RL" will work too. :)

-Uwe-
 
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vwparts

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Yeah, the FTDI "B" (and "BL") chips really are ancient and deprecated. But "R" or "RL" will work too. :)

-Uwe-
really? so what exactly would I be looking for? 409.1 FT232R or 409.1 FT232RL, correct? which would be better/more in line with the 409.1 FT232BL?

again, thank you guys for taking the time. I have enough trouble making the technology in the cars work, let alone setting up the diagnostic platforms. you ever research something to the point it feels like you've gone in circles and your eyes are about to bleed? :D
 
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Bruce

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you ever research something to the point it feels like you've gone in circles and your eyes are about to bleed? :D
I think our development team would shout YES! Happens most every day!
 
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Uwe

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really? so what exactly would I be looking for? 409.1 FT232R or 409.1 FT232RL, correct? which would be better/more in line with the 409.1 FT232BL?
The "B" is the original chip from FTDI that offered control over latency. When that came out (around 2002?) we had a "Eureka!" moment, because prior to that, we had not found a way to make VCDS work properly via USB. However it's not a stand-alone chip. It requires a number of external components including a timing source and EEPROM.

Then around 2006 or 2007, FTDI introduced the "R" chip, which was an all-in-one, software compatible, stand-alone solution that didn't require any external components.. Needless to say, the "R" chip rapidly became the preferred device for almost everyone who used FT232 chips, but of course it did require some re-design of circuit boards if one was previously using the "B" chip.

My understanding is that "R" chips are still in production, but "B" chips are not.

I believe the "L" on the end just means that it's RoHS compliant, but there's no functional difference between one that has an "L" on the end and one that doesn't. Any of them should work just fine for what you're doing. The only catch is that the "R" chip has been cloned, which of course FTDI took offense to (and created quite a bit of controversy in the process), so you want something that has a real/genuine FTDI chip rather than a clone, otherwise updated drivers from FTDI may not work.

-Uwe-
 
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