FOD PROJECT PISTON SLAP + BLOW BY BE GONE + 1 = 4 & THICK RING FUN EXPERIMENT!

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Jack@European_Parts

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INDUCED FOD PROJECT PISTON SLAP + BLOW BY BE GONE + 1 = 4 & THICK RING FUN EXPERIMENT!





BACK TO BASICS .......

FUTURES PAST COMES BACK TO HAUNT THE PROCESS AND WHY OR HOW COULD WE OF LOST OUR WAY!

OIL & GAS CONTROL OR PISTON RESONANCE FROM SLAP ARE REAL, THEY EFFECT USEFUL LIFE, PERFORMANCE & SMOG!

2 x THICK 5 MM OIL CONTROL RINGS AND TWO DOUBLE THICKNESS COMPRESSION RINGS 2 x @ 3 MM THICK!

WILL THE ADDED COMPRESSION, WEIGHT, SEAL, MAINTENANCE OR LINEAR OPERATION ADD HP AND TQ WITH GAINS THAT EXCEED THE DRAG DEFICIT + LOWER SMOG OR WILL IT JUST GRENADE?

TIME TO PUT IT TOO THE TEST........LET'S FIND OUT! :p






 
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Jack@European_Parts

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DECISIONS..... DECISIONS





THINGS TO CONSIDER.......
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10_TDI

2010

Kolles fielded 2 Audi R10 in their final year at the Le Mans 24 Hours, on 14 June 2010. Unlike the factory Audi and Peugeot LMP1, the Kolles R10 was not hampered by the new restrictor regulations which should have shaved off 60 bhp from the diesel-powered prototypes. The cars qualified 3:30, just behind the two Lola Astons. Both cars failed to finish because too much strain from torque was put onto the gearbox.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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French Eric is upset with me he demands answers!










Okay the beginning of this post is cryptic, terrible and deliberate, the thread title is not!
Come on we are in the BAR, not the How Too Section.... :rolleyes:

If you are new to the internal combustion engines "ICE" Diesel or GAS, you are probably saying WTF is this guy Jack talking about & sure seem's contrary to what everyone does in performance aspect or are doing with mods advertised?

This entire idea is out of literally well over three decades observation of engines failing & by witnessing willfully negligent design, further relying on some alleged magical lubrication product or adulterated fuel as a means of denying a warranty or reason for failure too is getting old.

It's "almost" all a big BS story, while lubricants and designs have improved, basics almost always remain & for reliable long term endured operation are already proven.

Fuels are built to a specification criteria in order to be sold in the USA, as are ICE platforms that should operate within a useful life provided they were built to those fuel specifications as certified.
Indeed true adulterated fuel or contamination is an issue too, however, not on the scale the OEM's claim and is clear, can't you see that?

Experience with over a 100 years of the ICE & new precision machine tolerances of today and metal work or fuels, it is absolutely apparent to me & possible to build more reliable consistent designs & that can comport beyond useful life.

It appears we have lost our way and a lot is often blamed by OEM's, for all the "AECD's" ( Auxiliary Emission Control Device ) causing the engine to be killed by the external SMOG remediation devices.

Like with everything some things are true and some are not.

What is not true is that the OEM manufacturing engineers in industry do not have a clear understanding of such basics, they do!

This is true for current repair industry DIY & I see on daily, even in professional settings; this goes for electrical or mechanical understandings of a process too, the repair industry gets a big FAIL 80/20!

The industry that works on the cars has been cryptically short changed & locked out too, just dumb'd down & to be fed such lines of BS to aid someone else's pockets at the expense of health and advancing technology or a work environment that actually knows how stuff works.

Okay the aforementioned said why these crazy pistons Jack?

Simple, however, not really..... it's a compounded answer.

If oil is permitted to enter into the combustion process either by inadequate ring seal to bore clearances or blow by in intake PCV, the engine runs unclean and AECD's suffer!
 
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HMC

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Hi Jack,
If you are asking for speculation, I would be concerned that the inertial loads of a heavier piston would cause other consequences on a block and crank not designed to take those extra loads. The increased vibrations and resonances would affect the transmission as well as the mounting system.
There, I've started it off.
Regards HMC
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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I been studying the conditions a long time now and measured the case PSI as Deterioration Factor "DF" sets in.

By the increased weight shear forces are indeed increased, however, the piston being held center in engine by an additional lower ring and extended length will remove slap and resonance aiding in useful life and overall performance.

A short light cut piston & with smaller rings, doesn't deal with or do well during normal useful life. Just look at the blow by gasses being generated and widespread issues with PCV or rear seals

So many service histories in TSI , with low end failing and not like the 1.8T did & since no HPP or as many chain's.

Look at all TSI chain or adjuster failure is clear it is widespread isn't it?

I think this initial contamination of gasses and fuel is what ends up taking out the sump, block & an HPP too. It exacerbates the issue, since it's in a last spot lubrication point when this component itself starts a dump of fuel to sump.

Now the injectors too are an issue, it is clear to me & at especially very high RPM ranges. The injectors can't withstand useful life for proper operation, however, maybe if not under such stress and were used in a lower RPM range, the heat and resonance might increase life?

It's my believe the oil contamination is what damages the parts far more exceeding the risks to curtail these aforementioned observations.

To be clear this experiment is to increase useful life stock not an effort to get HP on a dyno in an unusable RPM range.

Now it is my belief that if max TQ can be moved in a slower RPM range of combustion process. A much smaller turbo can be used & with correct gearing, a car would be much more feasible to drive and fun.

Almost any racer do two things I see.

They lighten it all up and they steepen the final drive to get the TQ back. They do this to move faster at a higher RPM, however, engine's do not last and are torn down frequently as result.

I think it's time for a new approach from what history taught us a long time ago, with NOS and water injection in aviation.

Also the VAG blocks seem to hold up very well in my experience for bore wear and reliable from 70 's up however, it has always been an issue for rings fatigued or head issue's and caused by fueling.

Amazing how old gas and diesel engines with many miles, the cross hatches from the last hone were still evident when observation of bore was done and how nice the cam lobes with solid lifters were....fond memories!
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Let's investigate the Porsche 356 which supported such ideas too even stock with large oil ring placement bellow piston pin?

Did you know that many VW air cooled and Porsche engines & other OEM's, supported such aforementioned piston designs for race & aviation bi-wing applications?

Did you know that race prototype engines or for even Indy 500 and others, supported such designs under extreme RPM upward of 15K, much duress and used boost PSI of 75 and up?

Did you know that these engines produced 1150 HP at aforementioned designs & at a mere 1.5 liter displacement?

Doesn't really make the tuners seem so innovative now huh?

Rules in racing had to be changed due to this, did you know that too?

356 stock/over sized piston application. Race engines had 4 rings and they were much larger!
 
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Uwe

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Did you know that these engines produced 1150 HP at aforementioned designs & at a mere 1.5 liter displacement?
Sure, but they only had to run for a few hours between overhauls, vs. the thousands of hours we expect from a daily driven street car.

-Uwe-
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Sure, but they only had to run for a few hours between overhauls, vs. the thousands of hours we expect from a daily driven street car.

-Uwe-

Thousands? :rolleyes:

Ahh current alleged race builds are not making this type of HP or in comparison on small displacement and they are not holding together long either in larger versions.

The point is, that in a stock situation and with this type piston design, it would be all over better in my opinion for long past useful life targets met & in performance applications.

Current engines from many OEM's, internally, they are not making the useful life as certified and piston/ring failure is widespread, why?

500-600 hours equals approximately about 30-35K miles depending on how driven & usually "hours" x 55 or 60 to get the inverse of mileage?

The TDI low RPM and super high TQ is proof in R10 of that, just need to figure the drive-line to wheels.

I'd much rather rev engine slower, safer and cleaner to make speed up in TQ in gas engines.
 
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Uwe

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Thousands? :rolleyes:
Yes, thousands. 100,000 miles (which we'd certainly expect a daily-driven engine to achieve, no?) at an average speed of 50 mph would require the engine to run for 2000 hours.

-Uwe-
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Yes, thousands. 100,000 miles (which we'd certainly expect a daily-driven engine to achieve, no?) at an average speed of 50 mph would require the engine to run for 2000 hours.

-Uwe-
Yes and they are NOT making it there are they? :p

I see an awful lot of stratified engines that require pistons and rings long before 30K how about you & you expect 100K?

Are not the PCV issues and engine seals blowing widespread along with water pump issues?

Do you think a piston like this would cause more harm than good if it sealed the combustion chamber better?

https://www.motorauthority.com/news...sche-356-was-brands-first-le-mans-winning-car

In 1951, Porsche competed for the first time at the 24 Hours of Le Mans. The team at Zuffenhausen prepared a number of cars for the race but accidents during testing and training meant only one Porsche actually competed, 356/2-063, with Auguste Veuillet and Edmond Mouche driving. They averaged 87.61 mph over the 24 hours, taking a class win, Porsche’s first victory at Le Mans.
 
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HMC

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Hi Jack,
Yes over the years I have seen pistons with lower oil control rings, my point was the engine was designed for that piston weight and loading, plus everything was beefier just to be safe, no CAD/CAM then. Introducing a much heavier piston into a powerplant/transmission that was not designed for it would/could have secondary consequences. It would certainly mean lowering the rev range, which is no bad thing, but would require other changes to camshafts/valves/induction to regain the power. Why don't we go back to engines from 30 years ago?
Isn't it far easier to change the oil more frequently and use 20 year old oil mixes if that is what you want?
Regards HMC
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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I just want stuff to last and work.
It annoys me that engines today, with stratified injection and timing chains all are pretty much unreliable.
Now that the economy is destroyed my hope is people will maintain their cars better.
I think the weight is negligible and the engines would run fine.
I guess we will have to see.
75 years ago they used to vent crankcase gasses to roadway and that was actually dangerous on a rainy day.
Regular oil & increased oil changes indeed make a difference but not enough if the fuel is making way to crankcase from inadequate combustion chamber sealing.
 
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Uwe

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Why don't we go back to engines from 30 years ago?
There are trade-offs in everything. Modern numerical analysis and CAD/CAM design has allowed manufacturers to cut what used to be generous "engineering margins" to the bone, and I think those margins were at least in part responsible for the longevity/durability that we no longer seem to have. But at the same time, these techniques have increased fuel efficiency while reducing emissions. Practically every car I've had over the last 40 years would get 25-30 (US) mpg on the highway. The current ones manage it with double (or more) the weight, well over double the power output, AWD, and considerably more frontal areas, as compared to lightweight FWD cars of my younger years.

But of course there's also the fact that manufacturers simply don't want to make cars that last 'forever' because doing so would kill their market for replacements in the future. ;)

-Uwe-
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Can I get one of those black wrist bands?
Yes you can send me PM for shipping.
Quick story....
Believe it or not I had those made to go over my wallet to lock in ID cards etc ..
I had this Continental "Conti" band from 2008 AApex show and when it broke I was lost, trying to use other's.
Went to buy one in store, was non existent. So went online and found the advertising ones being sold.
It is like having a VCDS cable without the Velcro band or on your blue VAG box. The one his Eminence installed is still to this day where he put it. :)

I was doing some quick measures the other day with digital caliper on pistons at home, battery died! RT marketing to the rescue, robbed the batteries out of the VCDS Key chain LED flash light.

All these little things are so useful! :p
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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FYI:
I will be removing material from the pistons and they are not that much heavier over stock but are heavy duty.
As a kid I used to turn pistons upside down and add lead to create weight with a torch.

I'm sure the fumes helped with my intelligence levels.:rolleyes:

I had two strokes and 4 stroke mopeds/mini bikes/race bikes with old Briggs/Tecumseh engines.
Suddenly they could hill climb and wheelee all over the place & carrying my "extra" weight.
I experimented early on with light and heavy flywheels, carb jetting and moving the timing in mags from what I learned about Mag's as a kid on planes. Since they were redundant and adjustable I made bikes move to play with timing.
I would remove governor play with cam timing too.
I spent a ton of time with failure and some success that taught me basics gone advanced.
Now I indeed destroyed a bunch of engine's but I learned a lot so I can apply this gauge of what I believe I can do and can't.

I don't think the block will be an issue, I'm more concerned about the rod snapping.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Hey what do you know same type crummy similar motor was in that shit VW badged Chrysler van?

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/jeep-owners-are-filing-a-class-action-lawsuit-for-an-expensive-problem/



The lawsuit against FCA claims that in vehicles equipped with the Tigershark engine, oil escapes past the piston rings and seeps into the combustion chamber. This results in the piston rings not working effectively within the cylinders. An abundance of wear occurs, requiring more oil than should be needed.
Widespread?

An increasing number of Toyotas are experiencing excessive oil consumption which may be the result of defective piston rings. Toyota, in all their 'deny-til-we-die' splendor, is reportedly denying warranty coverage on many oil consumption related problems and telling owners that burning through oil is normal.Mar 3, 2020
http://www.toyotaproblems.com/excessive-oil-consumption/

WTF do I know right I'm just the JackASS....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw21MqMOTPOOAvCRR8QZ3Fdi

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw2YcdYaod6mc5iwFOiLSPYq

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw0q6viU55D70Wziau9AZ8yT&cshid=1589769952437
 
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iichel

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I'm sure you are well familiar with the CAV engines in the states. Here in Europe they are also notorious for high oil consumption due to bad piston rings.
Whether it's VW or the importer (PON) is claiming it to be normal, but 1 litre of oil per 500 km is considered 'within specification'. That's 1200mpg in USA units.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Yeah that TSB advisory about oil burning has been around since the 1980's, however, it's not normal if some engines do it and others don't, is it?
 
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My '07 RAV4 has this problem now... about 60K it started... (was 10 years old at that point) It is now restricted to light duty around town... no more big trips. Ain't worth dumping $2k into an engine rebuild. There is a class action group getting steam to go after Toyota on this. My consumption is over a quart per 1k miles..

My question is, what is this doing to the CAT? Why isn't Uncle involved since it ought to be an emissions issue - no?
 
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