General Corona Virus Discussion

Crasher

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When I call my GP, I get a message saying basically if you are ill, call 999 (911) or go to AE, then a long drawn out corona virus message saying if you have symptoms, don't come anywhere near us, we are only a doctors surgery and dial another number, followed by a message from the head GP saying the same thing all over again and then you get put on hold and told you are in a queue but after 10 minutes a message says basically, sod off we are too busy and cuts you off. When I did get past that I was number 5 in the queue and it took 45 minutes to be number one and a further 10 minutes waiting for the receptionist to pick up... and if she says "ahh bless" once more I will scream!
 

Uwe

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I don't believe that any government can selectively apply their responsibility for care to citizens "who make themselves ill from eating too much, drinking excessively", or "pursue a dangerous sport". The obligation is universal and EVERY citizen is treated exactly the same.
Even those who decline the coronavirus injections? ;)

-Uwe-

PS: Many of us don't accept the premise that it valid function of government to provide "health care" to its citizens in the first place, and many of us warned that government took on that responsibility, such care would eventually end up equally inadequate for everyone, except of course important government officials.
 

Crasher

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Even those who decline the coronavirus injections? ;)
In the UK I think if someone becomes very ill and had not had their three injections they they should have to pay for their treatment as it is their own fault. A friend of mine who is triple jab had the lurgy a few weeks ag, it floored him but as he says, if he hadn't been jabbed he would have ended up in hospital... or dead.
 

DV52

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@PetrolDave: So - there appear to be two entirely separate but related matters in discussion here; @Crasher (btw, I like the new livery) has raised the question of whether Governments have a responsibility for universal healthcare and both of you are lamenting the state of UK's NHS.

Whilst it may well be true that your NHS needs a radical overhaul - it would be an error in the extreme to confuse a solution for latter that destroys the fundamental principles for the former!!!

Don
 

DV52

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Even those who decline the coronavirus injections? ;)
Yes, even for those who believe that their personal freedoms are more important than their wider obligations to the health of the communities whose benefits they keep taking. ;)

Universal health care means just that; the life/health of a "naysayer" is of no lesser value simply because his/her beliefs are centered on self!!

Your countryman Tommy Jefferson said it so eloquently about the self evident truths of life and the pursuit of happiness - both these aspects can't be achieved if a nation's heath care facility is selectively available based on those who can afford to pay!!

PS: Many of us don't accept the premise that it['s a] valid function of government to provide "health care" to its citizens.................
Uwe: wow-you continually surprise me! I suspect that I'm misunderstanding your quote.

So- given my understanding of your position, I invite your response to the following question: when should a community, or its elected government walk-away from its sick/dying citizens?

Should this decision be based on the amount of cash in the citizen's wallet, or perhaps the answer lies in the citizen's previous life choices, or maybe it's the way that the citizen voted at the last election, or is it about the citizen's beliefs (on vaccines, existential beliefs, religion, or any other matter), or.............?

Doesn't a life have exactly the same value for every (American) citizen regardless of anything else?

Isn't the definitive measure of humanity's evolution not about anything other than how it treats the most disadvantaged of its numbers - and isn't it this principle that underpins the universal health care obligation?

And lastly, I ask the same question as I did to @Crasher - would you be prepared (personally) to deny healthcare to a dying member of your community based on whether it's someone "wearing an expensive business suit, or a poor-soul who has spent a life-time burying his/her troubles in the solace of a bottle?"

And finally, to @Crasher suggestion that UK's NHS should be dismantled and a user-pays healthcare system implemented in its stead - I'd welcome your view on how successful the USA system has been.

Don
 
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HMC

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Strange I don't have the same problems with my GP as Crasher or Dave I get through to the Receptionist fairly quickly and although I am very rarely ill the response and advice when I had Covid was good, and I got called in for my old fogey MOT last year when restrictions were still in place.
Many of us don't accept the premise that it valid function of government to provide "health care" to its citizens in the first place
So presumably you believe it should be run by private business? Oh hang on, since the reforms to make GP's fundholders GP's are virtually private business'. When has most private business' been prepared to work for people that cannot pay them?
Just for some balance the vast majority in the UK do not want to lose the NHS, improvements of course, they are always welcome.
Regards HMC
 

PetrolDave

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Strange I don't have the same problems with my GP as Crasher or Dave I get through to the Receptionist fairly quickly and although I am very rarely ill the response and advice when I had Covid was good, and I got called in for my old fogey MOT last year when restrictions were still in place.
As I mentioned in my post the GPs in Hampshire and Wiltshire are pretty hopeless, but the GP in Devon was great.

Seems we have yet another 'postcode lottery' happening...
 

Crasher

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I have only had one experience with the US healthcare system, in the very early 90's I was in Arizona and was in the back of a Ford Explorer that randomly decided its bias ply wheel didn't like the radial tyre (how can a major manufacturer fuck up like that?) and barrel rolled three times down the middle of a straight road. The ambulance scooped myself and my business partner up (the other two were locals and although bleeding waited for family due to the cost of the ambulance) and took us to hospital where I was scanned, analy probed (no idea why), lusted over by nurses until they saw my "wedding band" and generally treated like a paying guest, which I was. We left the bill in the hands of British Airways insurance who also upgraded us to business class for the flight home as I was in a neck brace. I did see the bills and they were scary but good insurance covered it all.
 

DV52

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As I mentioned in my post the GPs in Hampshire and Wiltshire are pretty hopeless, but the GP in Devon was great.

Seems we have yet another 'postcode lottery' happening...
Dave: Absolutely no offense intended and notwithstanding my status as a colonial citizen in the greater UK conglomerate of countries, but maybe your observation is more about regional variations in the NHS - rather than being a statement regarding systemic failure in UK's healthcare system? ;)

Don
 

PetrolDave

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Seems we have yet another 'postcode lottery' happening...

maybe your observation is more about regional variations in the NHS
What I said?

However, if you look at the performance of critical care services (hospitals, etc.) there is a general consensus in the UK that there is a systemic failure in that area.
 

Crasher

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Interestingly Uwe, the tyre on the Explorer I was in (left rear) just deflated and collapsed into the rim as it had no J bead profile, I took a close up picture which I still have, so where. Apparently when recovered, the tyre reinflated perfectly. I found a huge bruise on my left buttock and the cars owner found the tyre had hit the inner arch, intruding into the back seat space where my bum was!
 

Uwe

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Gosh, who could possibly have seen this coming?
Pfizer CEO says fourth COVID-19 shot ‘necessary’ due to waning immunity
The regimen of two initial doses plus a booster is not able to protect against variants and wanes too quickly in strength, Bourla conceded
the protection that you’re getting from the third [shot], it is good enough — actually quite good for hospitalizations and deaths — it’s not that good against infections, but doesn’t last very long,” he said.

Oh, wait, I know someone who did see that coming, seven months ago:
If you were expecting these vaccines to provid anything resembling durable immunity, you were almost certainly mistaken. Boosters will be needed regularly [...]

But I kinda wonder. Given the low uptake of the first booster (third shot), how many people do they really think are going to roll up their sleeve for a fourth one?

-Uwe-
 
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vreihen

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But I kinda wonder. Given the low uptake of the first booster (third shot), how many people do they really think are going to roll up their sleeve for a fourth one?

<=== Will be at the front of the line!

Still no urge to buy a Microsoft Zune, and no 5G service here..... ;)
 

RGH0

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I have a flu vaccination once a year "due to waning immunity" , I expect I will have the same with Covid and eventually they will be combined into one dose taken at the start of each winter

cheers
Rohan
 

Uwe

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<=== Will be at the front of the line!
8LJqF1n.gif


:)

-Uwe-
 

Uwe

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I have a flu vaccination once a year "due to waning immunity"
There is a huge difference between a traditional flu shots and the mRNA Covid shots.

-Uwe-
 

Crasher

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I vehemently refuse NOT to have the flu vaccine as I had flu about five years ago and it was awful, I very nearly ended up in hospital my breathing was so bad and when I now know I had Covid in February 2020 after spending a day with a bunch of Italians, Greeks and Chinese at the Autosport show, it was nowhere near as bad as the flu.
 
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Uwe

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Given my health condition, this is more likely the outcome if I *don't* get the shots!
I'm not Catholic, but my understanding of that gesture is that it's a "blessing", a hope that things go well for the person in it's given to.

In any case, I have no argument with your personal risk/benefit assessment.

-Uwe-
 
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