General Corona Virus Discussion

   #961  

RGH0

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It's not very "open" if you have to take a series of dangerous, ineffective injections in order to compete. :p

-Uwe-
No you dont need the vaccine to compete. Jokovic had a medical exemption and could compete having met local state government and tournament regulations to do so. However you do need to meet federal government regulations to enter Australia without quarantine which he appears to have not fully met, at least until the judge rules otherwise next week which is appropriate if somewhat confusing for those who don't understand the Australia separation of powers between the federal government and the sovereign states under the Australian constitution.

As for the safety or effectiveness or otherwise of vaccinations I analyse the data and make my own choice to be vaccinated, as have 95% of Australians, with better results than some other places in the world who like to listen to scare campaigns and suffer the consequences while nobly asserting their right to be wrong which in most democracies still fortunately exists :)

cheers
Rohan
 
   #962  

Uwe

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As for the safety or effectiveness or otherwise of vaccinations I analyse the data and make my own choice to be vaccinated, as have 95% of Australians,
Yep, all those injections have virtually eliminated the virus in Australia, right?

Oh wait.

AUS-Cases-220107.jpg
Source

Well, so much for the injections being "effective".

Wanna discuss how "safe" they are next?

-Uwe-
 
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   #963  

RGH0

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Yep, all those injections have virtually eliminated the virus in Australia, right?

Oh wait.

View attachment 1848
Source

Well, so much for the injections being "effective".

Wanna discuss how "safe" they are next?

-Uwe-


Look at the total curve not just the last few weeks with the Omicron strain. Then look at infection rates, hospitalisations and deaths and compare on a per capita basis around the world versus vaccination rates. Combine that with an understanding of the other control methods used ( e.g. type and extent of mobility restrictions and other measures like density limits and face masks) and the accuracy of the reporting methods used ( what is tested for or not tested for and when and how, how is a hospitalisation and death data reported, as "with" Covid or "caused by" Covid )

I did to the extent possible and I made my own judgement as I am sure you make yours as is still our privilege living in the democracies we do.

Even now with 95% vaccination in Australia and a much higher infection rate due to Omicron in recent weeks a high proportion of hospitalisations and deaths still come from those 5% who remain unvaccinated.

Adverse reaction data in Australia at least shows the events due to vaccinations are few and far between and you struggle to extract any meaningful data from the random events that are always happening to link it specifically to the vaccinations.

cheers
Rohan
 
   #964  

Uwe

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Look at the total curve not just the last few weeks with the Omicron strain. Then look at infection rates, hospitalisations and deaths and compare on a per capita basis around the world versus vaccination rates.
I don't have anything like that handy on a world-wide basis, but do have it for the 50 US States:

WscChVR.png


The correlation between vax rates and cases isn't very strong, but what correlation exists implies negative efficacy.

Oh, and to a large extent, the states on the left side of that graph have also imposed fewer "other control methods" than the states on the right side.

I did to the extent possible and I made my own judgement as I am sure you make yours as is still our privilege living in the democracies we do.
What I've said repeatedly in this thread is that I'm entirely fine with everyone being able to decide for themselves whether they wish to roll up their sleeves, but I cannot abide mandates, or government-imposed restrictions on those who decide against taking the injections. E.g: A person doesn't have freedom of choice when government edicts require injections as a condition of employment.

Adverse reaction data in Australia at least shows the events due to vaccinations are few and far between and you struggle to extract any meaningful data from the random events that are always happening to link it specifically to the vaccinations.
Go look at excess mortality rates and note the temporal correlation with the vaccine roll-outs almost anywhere in the world. Can I prove this is due to the injections? Nope. It could just be a statistically impossible number of coincidences.

-Uwe-
 
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   #965  

RGH0

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"Go look at excess mortality rates and note the temporal correlation with the vaccine roll-outs almost anywhere in the world. Can I prove this is due to the injections? Nope. It could just be a statistically impossible number of coincidences"

Yes I did look at this and in the last two years in Australia death rates have been mainly within the historical range and for significant periods below average, see below. If you dig into the data in the article below vaccinations do not appear to cause excess deaths and the high level of vaccinations and other control methods are preventing excess deaths due to Covid and reducing other infectious diseases

Maybe Australia is just truly the lucky country :)

Australian mortality data
 
   #967  

DV52

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What I've said repeatedly in this thread is that I'm entirely fine with everyone being able to decide for themselves whether they wish to roll up their sleeves, but I cannot abide mandates, or government-imposed restrictions on those who decide against taking the injections. E.g: A person don't have freedom of choice when government edicts require injections as a condition of employment.
@Uwe: Without attempting to persuade otherwise - I'm intrigue as to where you draw the line in a modern society between so-called unacceptable mandates and the opposite -let's call them "justifiable restrictions"?

I'm thinking about actions that an individual can choose that can have a serious impact on others in the community, or on the community as a whole

For example, there is a rule/law in all countries that before making a turn, drivers must indicate their intentions by the use of the turn signal. Now, I'm not sure of the statistical data, but I would assume that the link between not indicating a turn and an accident to another car is not absolute. Or said another way - the imposition of the turn-signal rule is a risk mitigation decision (rather than being a rule that avoids a certainty, or near certainty).

Presumably you do not consider such a rule as a unacceptable mandate even though I suspect that it can be demonstrated that the absence of the rule (maybe in part) probably would have little impact - for example, allowing driver digression when making right-hand turns on your LH drive cars.

You might not agree that my turn-signal example is commensurate - it doesn't matter. The question I pose is: where should one draw the line? When is it OK for an individual to accept the myriad of benefits that a community provides but also to choose not to comply with the rules that are imposed by its elected government? Is pandemic control really that point?

Don
 
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   #968  

PetrolDave

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When is it OK for an individual to accept the myriad of benefits that a community provides but also to choose not to comply with the rules that are imposed by its elected government?
Given your example Don, when they drive a BMW (which never seem to have working turn signals here in the UK) :D
 
   #969  

Crasher

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I take great offence if a car of the Devil (B*W) even passes through the gates into my car park, it is a good job owning an AR15 is illegal in the UK.
 
   #971  

Quintus Rotam

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studys.jpg

This looks like it was written by that Nigerian prince that keeps emailing me.
 
   #972  

Uwe

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This looks like it was written by that Nigerian prince that keeps emailing me.
Really? Nigerian prices provide links to countless scientific papers illustrating their point?

-Uwe-
 
   #973  

Uwe

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I'm intrigue as to where you draw the line in a modern society between so-called unacceptable mandates and the opposite
Several places, but one of them is bodily autonomy.

-Uwe-
 
   #974  

Quintus Rotam

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Really? Nigerian prices provide links to countless scientific papers illustrating their point?

-Uwe-

I was referring to the misspelling in the first sentence on that page, didn't read further.
The misspelling of "studies" (on a web page about studies, no less) reminded me of e-mails from "Nigerian princes" misspelling "Nigerian", "personal data" or "send some money".

It's just something I noticed.
 
   #976  

RGH0

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I stopped reading the BS when I got to 5G urban radar :eek:

cheers
Rohan
 
   #977  

DV52

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Over 1,000 Studies Published in Peer-reviewed Medical Journals Say the Vaccines are Dangerous​

Fred: wow - what a unique link!!

It's been a very long time since I've had such a very enjoyable read. I've not previously heard of Save-Us-Now. It appears to be a UK group; their motto = "waking humanity from their sleep". I hope that they don't include folk from UK's colonial territories (Australia) into their credo - i like my sleep!! ;)

Of course the headline is a self evident truth (ALL vaccines are indeed "dangerous" - COVID medicine is no exception). But I have to say that the rest of the author's claims are nothing more than entertaining fiction (despite the failed attempt at legitimacy by including the listed scientific papers)!!

Anyhow- I had a chuckle, so thanks!

Don
 
   #978  

Crasher

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I have said it before, it isn’t this or any other virus that frightens me… it is people. One of my friends is a telecoms installer and knows several installers that were threatened when installing 5G systems or even completely none telecoms equipment that people thought were secret 5G systems, nutters.
 
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   #979  

DV52

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Several places, but one of them is bodily autonomy.

-Uwe-
@Uwe: Thanks for the response.

Again, purely in an attempt to better understand the position taken on the question of COVID control by someone who clearly has an advanced capacity for intellectual reasoning - really?

Are you really saying that in 21st Century communities - with today's interconnected world in which international travel to every part of this fragile blue planet is a continuing occurrence - "bodily autonomy" is a sacrosanct freedom when a pandemic is declared?

If "bodily autonomy" is indeed an inviolate pillar of every citizen's right in a modern community and accepting also your views on the tyranny of lock-downs - how do elected Governments combat a pandemic? Or said in another way -what other equally effective control mechanisms are available to elected Governments to stem community infection?

Once more, I mean no offense in asking these question - I simply want to understand the fundamentals of your position

Don
 
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   #980  

Uwe

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Are you really saying that in 21st Century communities - with today's interconnected world in which international travel to every part of this fragile blue planet is a continuing occurrence - "bodily autonomy" is a sacrosanct freedom when a pandemic is declared?
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

I'll double down on that when the "pandemic" virus has a recovery rate of well over 99% and almost everyone who dies "of" it had one foot in the grave to begin with.

I'll double down it again when the so-called "vaccines" that they're insisting we should take clearly do not stop infection or onward transmission of the virus.

I'll double-down on it a final time when the so-called "vaccines" that they're insisting we should take are the most dangerous vaccines that have ever been widely used in modern times.

Oh, and if we allow governments to trample our natural rights via the the simple "declaration of a pandemic" or other "emergency", then we can expect to live in a constant state of "emergency" from here on. No thank you.

-Uwe-
 
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