General Corona Virus Discussion

   #801  

Uwe

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Because EVERYONE must be vaxxed
I don't think that will work out the way they expect. Some people will simply not be coerced.

Wish Jack was here to help, speaking of which I wonder what his actual cause of death was maybe renal failure from Remdesivir?
I'm afraid I don't have anything in the way of details regarding his treatment. We know he was a "big" guy in terms of BMI and that's been a well-known problem with Coof since the spring of 2020.

-Uwe-
 
   #802  

Uwe

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I am eagerly awaiting my turn for my third vaccine jab.
Again, I have no problem with anyone who voluntarily elects to be in the treatment arm of the biggest human biology experiment ever conducted.

My problem is only with those who wish to eliminate the control arm. Perhaps we should be asking why they are so eager to do that?

-Uwe-
 
   #803  

Crasher

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As I have said before, the virus doesn't scare me, people do...
 
   #804  

vreihen

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I'm afraid I don't have anything in the way of details regarding his treatment. We know he was a "big" guy in terms of BMI and that's been a well-known problem with Coof since the spring of 2020.

I do. He had the best medical care in the region, and they couldn't save him..... :cry:
 
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   #805  

timc995

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Wait, weren't those vaccines supposed to keep people from getting infected, spreading Covid, and get us to herd immunity? That was certainly the narrative during the first quarter of the year...

There is an awful lot of people synthesizing an awful lot of information and making an awful lot of statements. I don't think that there is any single 'narrative' that defines how anyone should think of vaccines.

The fact is that vaccination works. That's why you rarely hear about Polio and Tetanus deaths, among other nasty illnesses.

There is bound to be growing pains with covid vaccines. The speed that this tool was brought to bear on the worldwide problem has no historic precedent. Nothing even comes close. You can make your own assessment, but I believe that the balance between speed and safety was appropriate.

In the case of Illinois, I looked a little further. Here's a good summary of where Illinois is at, with recent stats. https://newschannel20.com/news/loca...s-in-illinois-last-week-were-fully-vaccinated . Despite what happens in any single week, the overall state stats tell a compelling story:

1) Out of the total of 25,834 covid deaths in Illinois, only 818 were fully vaccinated.
2) Of those deaths, 87% were age 65 or over
3) The 818 vaccinated deaths account for only 3.2% of the total covid deaths
 
   #806  

PetrolDave

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The fact is that vaccination works. That's why you rarely hear about Polio and Tetanus deaths, among other nasty illnesses.
Vaccination is only as effective as the vaccine, and AFAIK no vaccine has ever been 100% effective or 100% risk free.

Vaccine for Polio, Tetanus, etc. have been proven to be very effective - but even they need more than one dose or booster (I had 2 Polio doses whilst at school many years ago and Tetanus had a booster after 10 years).

Just this week it's been revealed that the HPV virus MAY need a booster after several years.

The concerns that people have are, I believe, based on the excessive hype over the Covid vaccines that led many people to believe that one or two doses would PREVENT infection and transmission, where the reality is that with the shorter period of testing that suggestion could never be justified by the available evidence.

But given the data that suggests that one/two doses are still between 75% and 90% effective at preventing infection and reducing transmission, and the rate of side effects is low there is still IMHO a risk benefit from being vaccinated - I've had two doses and will definitely be getting my booster dose next month.
 
   #807  

Uwe

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The fact is that vaccination works. That's why you rarely hear about Polio and Tetanus deaths, among other nasty illnesses.
Yes, when they provide sterilizing, durable immunity, vaccines sure do work.

But these so-called vaccines clearly don't provide sterilizing immunity, nor is the very narrowly-focused (spike protein only) immunity they provide durable.

Out of the total of 25,834 covid deaths in Illinois, only 818 were fully vaccinated. [...]The 818 vaccinated deaths account for only 3.2% of the total covid deaths.
Sure, you can get 3.2% if you count all the deaths in in 2020, in other words before any vaccine was available and 100% of the deaths were in unvaccinated people. But what is the percentage now? One week it's 42%. Another week it's 78%. With those kind of numbers, I think it's safe to say that these particular "vaccines" do not work well at all.

And that raises the question: Is the risk worth the benefit? No vaccine is without risk, and these particular shots appear to carry orders of magnitude more risk than any previous vaccine. If their benefit were were durable, sterilizing immunity such as it is for polio, smallpox, and so on, and thus could allow mankind to eliminate this virus, then even that higher risk might be worth taking. Unfortunately we now know that's not the case, meaning people should be allowed to decide for themselves, on an individual basis, whether the risk is worth the benefit to them.

-Uwe-
 
   #808  

Uwe

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Vaccine for Polio, Tetanus, etc. have been proven to be very effective - but even they need more than one dose or booster (I had 2 Polio doses whilst at school many years ago and Tetanus had a booster after 10 years).
Indeed, they are. And I would say that 10 years is reasonably durable immunity. But Covid vaccines seem to provide immunity for 6 months or less.. I would not call that durable, and nor would I call the rate of "breakthrough infections" in the first 6 months "rare".

But given the data that suggests that one/two doses are still between 75% and 90% effective at preventing infection and reducing transmission,
What data is that? It certainly can't be the UKHSA's data, the latest update of which again shows a a substantially higher rate of infection per 100,000 people among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated in all age brackets above 30.

the rate of side effects is low there is still IMHO a risk benefit from being vaccinated - I've had two doses and will definitely be getting my booster dose next month.
I have no problem with you making that decision on a personal/individual basis.

My problem is with those who demand that everyone should take it and are implementing coercive measures to try an make that happen.

-Uwe-
 
   #809  

DV52

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@Uwe: again, your desires regarding free choice and personal freedoms for vaccination are laudable. And in an ideal world, I would gladly be there with you in protest marches - proudly carrying signs which proclaim these rights.

However, we ain't living in an ideal world - and especially with a pandemic the like of which no one living in any community has ever experienced, the cold clinical logic of your position is........ well, a tad utopian (no offense, maybe the wrong word- perhaps I mean "single purpose"?)!!

Of course the vaccination program is "the biggest human biology experiment ever conducted". I have absolutely no problem with your description - which I know was intended as a pejorative. However to me, the mass inoculation of nearly 4 Billion souls (about 50% of humanity) in such a short time is astonishing (a good thing) and it's something to be proud-of!!

So, rather than viewing this defining statistic as proof of a clandestine plot to manipulate societies around the world (I still can't understand how mandatory vaccination delivers this objective to the power-Lords ), I view this achievement as evidence that humanity has evolved beyond being simply a number of isolated communities that are focused on local interests. And, whilst I'm not naive to believe that we have completely made the transition, I still see the performance of Governments as a positive thing (and yes, maybe individual govts had other motives in participating - but, so what?)!

I've discussed in previous responses the multi purpose role of vaccinations in dealing with the wider human-concerns of societies (i.e. a new form of "social-license") and the need for such responses to combat community fear - so I won't repeat these words. But with no offense intended, perhaps viewing the medical instrument of vaccination, purely as a medical matter might be a tad limiting in the context of such an existential and complex world problem?

Don
 
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   #810  

Uwe

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perhaps viewing the medical instrument of vaccination, purely as a medical matter might be a tad limiting in the context of such an existential and complex world problem?
I reject the implied premise that this virus, with an IFR of well under 1%, which kills almost no one who is in good health, is an existential problem.

-Uwe-
 
   #811  

DV52

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I reject the implied premise that this virus, with an IFR of well under 1%, which kills almost no one who is in good health, is an existential problem.

-Uwe-
Uwe: Yes, I understand your belief - you have been entirely consistent in this matter throughout ALL of your posts.

But again with the greatest of respect - even you must acknowledge that for whatever reasons, the fear of COVID has been an extremely (perhaps, the most?) important concern of almost every soul on this planet since the virus was allowed to escape from China. Perhaps it's the fault of media treatment, or maybe it's the vested interests of pharmaceuticals, hell - it might even be the result of government's clandestine attempts to subjugate their constituents (facetious option) - but the global hype about COVID is undeniable.

Which of course leads into the question of whether COVID is a world -wide perceived existential problem and-also/or is it a real existential problem (it can be both, or it can be either). And perhaps more importantly, the discussion begs the bigger question- does the latter option matter if the former option prevails in the world's largest superorganism?

My answer is that Darwin's law of natural selection dictates that survival of a species (particularly one that is societal) is not predicated on always being correct!! ;)

Don
 
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   #812  

Uwe

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the fear of COVID has been an extremely (perhaps, the most?) important concern of almost every soul on this planet since the virus was allowed to escape from China.
So? You're not suggesting that assuaging some people's irrational fears justifies violating other people's bodily autonomy via coercive measures, are you?

-Uwe-
 
   #813  

Crasher

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It is much like this climate chnage scenario, it is being used to frighten the crap out of the young as Covid was used to frighten the old... in both cases China is the culprit but western democratically elected governments are terrified of upsetting them so they pile on the pressure at home. If Gritty Turdberg really gave a shit about it she would go to China and complain but she knows she would probably vanish.
 
   #815  

Fred's Imports

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It is much like this climate chnage scenario, it is being used to frighten the crap out of the young as Covid was used to frighten the old... in both cases China is the culprit but western democratically elected governments are terrified of upsetting them so they pile on the pressure at home. If Gritty Turdberg really gave a shit about it she would go to China and complain but she knows she would probably vanish.
Wrong, all roads lead to Israel.
 
   #816  

Crasher

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I couldn't disagree more strongly, anti Semitism makes my stomach churn.
 
   #817  

Crasher

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Some days, I think that both are being used as the 21st century's Cold War.....

Race, gender and climate change have been hijacked by white middle class intellectual socialists to use as a weapon to bring "change", they want change but don't know what to, just change!
 
   #819  

Crasher

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Sorry, me or him?
 
   #820  

Bruce

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I am not here to find fault with any particular post. There have been several that malign others not just the Jews. My point is the intelligent discussion suffers when posts speak to race rather than issue.

I too was put off by the reference to Israel. I have also been put off by those who attack the Chinese among others. If we cannot find a way to live together on this small globe, then we will end up annihilating one another. That is not an end I wish upon our children nor their children.
 
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