General Corona Virus Discussion

   #661  

vreihen

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As the same person gifted my daughter cereals from hell (with a sticker on it "makes dumb", have a photo of it), I think it is not bad intention. Just dumbness.

Speaking of pooping someone's brains out....

f241fc0d-0ebd-4cf1-9623-2be5b698b0c7.__CR0,0,970,600_PT0_SX970_V1___.jpg



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   #662  

DV52

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At least in my view from outside, I think that Ross-Tech demonstrates some of the finest ideals in how a small business should be run in this country.........................
@jyoung8607: well said - albeit I would extend the accolade to include comparison with businesses outside the land-of-the-free!

I'm not as familiar with Ross-Tech as you appear to be - but from the vantage point of someone from a far-away place, the corporate value-set is exemplary and it is regrettably rare amongst the business community..... and it is clearly driven from the top (notwithstanding the CEO's occasionally different views to mine - as evidenced in Uwe's bar ;))

Don
 
   #663  

Uwe

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We are both engineers - so we are well acquainted with sound scientific evidence that clearly demonstrates cause and effect. So I have absolutely no problem with the compelling conclusions in your response - I agree 101%
So rather than try to convince people that a virus with a 99+% recovery rate is not an existential threat to society, you'll accept government mandates for intrusive measures that you know do not really work?

-Uwe-
 
   #664  

Uwe

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In the meantime, I leave you with a bit of well-settled legislation known as 29 USC 654, the OSHA Act of 1970:
(a) Each employer --
(1) shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees;
(2) shall comply with occupational safety and health standards promulgated under this Act.
(b) Each employee shall comply with occupational safety and health standards and all rules, regulations, and orders issued pursuant to this Act which are applicable to his own actions and conduct.
I trust we're not going to have any serious discussions about COVID-19 not being a recognized hazard.
That might pass muster if the mandated measures were actually effective in reducing the recognized hazard. For example if OSHA mandated regular testing of all on-site employees. But that's not what we have here; the proposed mandates exempt vaccinated employees from testing, despite the fact that being vaccinated does not prevent people from getting infected or transmitting the infection to others.

Have a look at some of the most recent data out of the UK:

CHm1Xyq.png


In the all age groups between 40-80 years old, the infection rate (per 100,000 people) is actually higher among the vaccinated than the un-vaccinated!
Source.

Now you won't see data like that out of the USA because the CDC stopped counting/reporting "breakthrough" infections in fully vaccinated people unless those infections resulted in hospitalization or death. But that count is very important because even Dr. Fauci has admitted that fully vaccinated people with breakthrough infections have viral loads just as high as the un-vaccinated. Given that the vaccinated ostensibly have good protection from "severe disease" and may even be free of symptoms despite a high viral load if they become infected, it seems to me that these mandates, as currently proposed are likely to be counter-productive in reducing the "recognized hazard".

Note: I am by no means advocating for mandated universal testing. I'm just pointing out that what's been proposed makes no sense given what we now know about the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of these shots when it comes to actually preventing infection and transmission.

But by and large, those 100+ employee businesses are run by folks who live in the reality-based community, have been desperately trying to get back to normal, to get people back in the office, and trying to find a way to do it [...] They were looking for air cover, they were specifically lobbying for it, and now they've got it.
So you're telling us that the current administration is now doing "Corporate America's" bidding?

Gosh, I thought that was supposed to be the Evil Republicans' job. ;)

-Uwe-

PS: I very much appreciate the kind words in your response to my daughter that I have not quoted here.
 
   #665  

DV52

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So rather than try to convince people that a virus with a 99+% recovery rate is not an existential threat to society, you'll accept government mandates for intrusive measures that you know do not really work?

-Uwe-
hmm...... that's not quite what I'm saying - What I'm suggesting is that the scientific facts in your previous response should work on those individuals in the community who can be persuaded by the razor-like precision of logic. Whilst it would fantastic if we lived in a community in which scientific facts were universally persuasive (a kind of societal pedagogy) - this ain't real.

COVID is a game-changer and communities are driven as much by emotion as they are by the medical science of the infection - in fact -probably more so!! Ain't nothing inferior about these "other" societal drivers - they are an essential part of the humans that make-up our communities - this is quite normal stuff and it should be expected (and in truth, the absence of non-scientific responses to such an important change-agent as COVID would probably indicate an unhealthy community).

So- my point is that it might be a tad unrealistic to expect that a community's answer to COVID will be based solely on hard clinical facts with the solution sold to citizens via pure rationalist logic. Instead, maybe a more realistic expectation is a societal response that has some medical drivers (to deal with the science of the disease) as well as some non-scientific drivers (to deal with the emotional part of the human condition which is an essential component of our communities)?

I'm suggesting that maybe the no-jab restrictions that appear to be a growing demand from sectors of both our communities serves the latter (read, human) needs of the whole community. And, I'm suggesting that there is already evidence of this dynamic in the rules for wearing face masks.

Moreover, I'm suggesting that it's futile to expect clean rationalist logic to deal with the human needs of our societies - it just doesn't work (no matter how compelling the facts might be) because the underlying problem has a very different cause

And yes, there ain't no free ride; each and every answer to COVID comes at a cost, and the price that is to be extracted for the "human-condition" solution is a diminution of a citizen's pre-COVOID personal freedom.

Now, some in the community might view this cost to be too high, and/or the problem that it addresses to be too small - maybe? But, the whole of society works as a single unit -so the views of the greater numbers will prevail!!

Alas, in this very unfair new-normal world, the only option for dissenters will be to accept the consequences of non-compliance, or re-calibrate the perceived value of their lost freedom!

Don
 
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   #666  

Fred's Imports

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Sounds like Uwe will be in DC this weekend wearing his arrest Tony Fauci tee shirt.
 
   #668  

Uwe

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Sounds like Uwe will be in DC this weekend wearing his arrest Tony Fauci tee shirt.
Nope. I have not set foot in the District of Corruption in many years, and do not intend to do so again in this lifetime.

As for Fauci, he's got quite a history. Ask people who lost friends to AIDS in the 1980s what they think of him.

-Uwe-
 
   #670  

rks

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I won't waste forum space on why those statistics are incorrect and the truth is probably the reverse, but if you want to know listen to the start of this https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09vyy6h
Regards HMC
You mean the government does not know how many unvaccinated people are in the country? This raises me the question, how the percentage of vaccinated people can be determined.

I do not know UK. In Germany and Switzerland it is quite difficult to live in the country without being registered in some way and I guess, the numbers of inhabitants are quite correct there.

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/
Assuming that older people got vaccinated first and because children do not really suffer of Covid, a very high percentage of the unvaccinated people in Israel should die now. Is this so?
 
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   #671  

Fred's Imports

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Not to mention the data that OUR governments have been manipulating from the beginning. WHO, CDC, effing hogwash.

So garbage stats = garbage data.

At the race track we call this garbage in garbage out.
 
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