General Corona Virus Discussion

   #581  

Uwe

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aged 19, i went with my brother who is aged 23. felt fine except pain in the arm. both of us woke up at aprox 1-2am with extreme shaking uncontrollably. high fever. awake all night shaking for aprox 1 hour myself.
Thanks for the feedback. I bet you're totally looking forward to the second dose then, right? ;)

-Uwe-
 
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Bruce

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I had the Moderna shot 2 weeks ago. Other than sore arm, I have not had other side effects. The shot location is still red and white with the center being white and feeling a bit hard - not normal mushy 65 year old flab... due for 2nd shot on April 9.
 
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DneprDave

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I got my first Moderna vaccine in the middle of February and the second on the first of March.
The first shot, I only had injection site pain and no other symptoms. The second vaccine's symptoms were a few body aches on the next day and that's all.
 
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HMC

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I had my first Astra Zeneca/Oxford jab a month after suffering from Covid 19 for 2 months, I am 70 but had no side effects.
Regards HMC
 
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   #585  

JSWTDI09

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I have already had both Pfizer jabs (late Jan. and Feb.) and no significant side effects other than some injection site soreness for a day or 2. I guess there are occasionally advantages to being an old fart. I got my shots before a nurse friend in Ohio got hers. IMHO. considering her job, she should have gotten hers first.

Have Fun!

Don
 
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   #586  

ColinT

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guided here by @Uwe, reveived my first jab on wednesday @ 6.40pm. astra zeneca/oxford jab (1st injection). i am white from the UK aged 19, i went with my brother who is aged 23. felt fine except pain in the arm. both of us woke up at aprox 1-2am with extreme shaking uncontrollably. high fever. awake all night shaking for aprox 1 hour myself. the next day felt just off, no temperature but i felt hot and cold all day. i actually woke up in the morning when i finally got to sleep drenched in sweat, my bed was soaked. had to change it all and try to get some more sleep. felt boiling hot then freezing all day on and off, but no fever. the next day again now and i feel fine, just pain in the arm and also a bit tired.
Surprised you've had yours already at your age.

I had my first Pfizer jab mid Feb, no issues at all, looking forward to restrictions being relaxed in a few weeks!
 
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   #587  

Ashields

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Hello all,

I had my first dose on Monday. I have had no problem from it (I had the Pfizer and I am between 25 and 30) My mother is in her 50s and had the first dose of the AstraZeneca in February and had no problem as well. My Grandmother (In her 70s) had the first dose at the same time as my mother and had the AstraZeneca. She found nothing bad from it as well.

We certainly are not government worshipers or cult followers. We only speak as we find and what we say could be revised in the future if needed.

Andrew
 
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   #588  

Uwe

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-Uwe-
 
   #589  

DV52

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guided here by @Uwe, reveived my first jab on wednesday @ 6.40pm. astra zeneca/oxford jab (1st injection). i am white from the UK aged 19, i went with my brother who is aged 23. felt fine except pain in the arm. both of us woke up at aprox 1-2am with extreme shaking uncontrollably. high fever. awake all night shaking for aprox 1 hour myself. the next day felt just off, no temperature but i felt hot and cold all day. i actually woke up in the morning when i finally got to sleep drenched in sweat, my bed was soaked. had to change it all and try to get some more sleep. felt boiling hot then freezing all day on and off, but no fever. the next day again now and i feel fine, just pain in the arm and also a bit tired.
hmm..... sorry to read about your reaction to the vaccine. I've read that these type of effects can be linked to folk that have an underlying propensity to allergies. If you are prepared to share - do you, or your brother have such a condition?

Don
 
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DV52

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Uwe: far be it for me to suggest this and I'm not sure if you have heard of him - but perhaps the contemporary philosopher and polymath, Ivan Illich has the real answer to PANDA's criticisms in your video?

Illich wrote a short book (here) in which he argues that fighting a modern day pandemic is more of a social phenomenon with a medical cause, rather than being a strictly medical exercise (in its own right).

Viewed from this perspective, the real value of lock-downs and the wearing of masks might be social (not medical, at all); perhaps these vaguely medical practices are the cement that communities need to demonstrate to one another that everyone is willing to put the needs of the whole (and the vulnerable) before the wants of individuals - in a time of (perceived, if not real) crisis, maybe?

Don
 
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   #591  

Uwe

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Viewed from this perspective, the real value of lock-downs and the wearing of masks might be social (not medical, at all)
So trashing the world's economy and creating a future generation (current children) who are a deathly afraid of social interactions is somehow desirable?

-Uwe-
 
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   #592  

DV52

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So trashing the world's economy and creating a future generation (current children) who are a deathly afraid of social interactions is somehow desirable?

-Uwe-
Uwe: OOOhh.....NO; I most-definitely never said that it was "somhow desirable". I'm suggesting that according to at least one, very intelligent person IMO, it (i.e. risking, not "trashing") might be "necessary"! BIG difference between the 2 x approaches!

In an ideal world it would be great if ALL the medical evidence could be neatly analysed and then a way-forward could be logically chosen based on the greatest efficacy and minimal impact on other societal dimensions - and where there is universal agreement about the chosen solution

However, we aren't dealing with a global (existential, or not) infection that can be neatly confined to the sterile environment of a medical laboratory - and the even if this was possible, the "experts" are far from united about the science for the management of the pandemic

Reading between the lines of the book, Illich is suggesting (I think) that the greatest confounder in how a modern society battles a pandemic isn't the science at all; he suggests that when dealing with the most complex and sophisticated super-organism on this fragile blue planet, satisfying the "soft" (emotional) needs of a contempory community become more important - particularly when the view of that society is that the pandemic threatens its very survival!

My suggestion is that rather than adopting PANDA's views about "nonsense" practices like lock-down and mask-wearing, it's perhaps more instructive to consider if these perceived solutions satisfy broader societal needs - as proposed by Illich?

I'm not proposing that illich has found the answer (I very much doubt that there are simple answers)- I'm just suggesting that the link might be worth considering, maybe?

Don
 
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   #593  

Bruce

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I agree Don. We didn't know what to do nor did we know the extent of the problem. Out of the emotion of having to do something, government chose to lock down, safe distance and mandate masks - all measures they hoped would have an effect on the virus but more so on the panic. In the early days of this thing, many were fearful. Some businesses moved their employees to their homes before the mandate was issued to close. People were washing shoes whenever they went outside the house and came back. People chose to wipe all goods with agents to kill and cleanse; to wear masks and gloves; to stay away. All predicated on the pervasive fear that was circling about us.

As we learned more, we came to understand that packages were not the prime carrier of the virus. We learned that we didn't track the virus indoors on our clothes and shoes. We learned that the primary means of spread was that of many viruses - the spray from the mouth of one who is infected to one another via their mucus membranes in the eyes, nose and throat. Handwashing, masks and distance should minimize such spread, we learned.

Are masks effective in stopping the droplets? Not very. Distancing probably does more than the masks. Doing both certainly improves the chances the virus does not reach another.

No, the governments did not respond in science. They responded to the rising panic and implemented programs to minimize that panic. Some of their programs seem absurd. In the moment when they responded, was it so absurd? What does mass hysteria do? My answer is that it creates mass chaos leading to anarchy. Lockdowns tend to minimize the spread of panic.

Could there have been better solutions? First time around? Not likely. Now we have the opportunity to learn from mistakes made, preparing for the next time which I am certain will come.

Don, I fully agree - there are no simple answers to human reactions. Everyone of us reacts to things differently. Everyone of us assess threats to our well being in different ways. No blanket solution will ever be right. All have the right to their own opinion. Simple answers cannot exist in such an environment.

Hindsight is 20:20 they say. Experience is what leads to good decision making. We've experienced one pandemic in our lifetime. Perhaps the second will have less fear and a more reasoned response.
 
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Uwe

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Please watch the video in the post above.

Vitamin D:
I've mentioned this before, and it shouldn't be controversial at all: If you don't have regular exposure to the sun when it's fairly high in the sky (and "regular" means more than just your face, for at least 20-30 min several times per week) take some vitamin D supplements; they're very inexpensive. Here's just one example:

However, don't over-do it either. Up to 4000 IU per day is considered safe for anyone. I wouldn't take more than that for an extended period of time without getting your blood levels checked. Vitamin D is fat-soluble and your body stores it for a while, so if you suspect you're deficient, it's fine to take more as a loading dose for week or two. I personally do 3000 IU / day in the winter and 1000 IU /day in the summer and have done so since last fall. That's a bit on the light side, but I also spend a great deal of time well south of the 35th parallel and make a point of going for a walk daily with as much skin exposed as the weather permits.

Ivermectin: As mentioned in the video, doctors are reluctant to prescribe it despite the fact that it's probably safer than aspirin. However it's readily available in veterinary form, and there's no reason you can't have it in stock, ready to use at the first sign of trouble, when it will do the most good. A single tube is good for 6-8 doses for the average adult, and three tubes cost a whopping $25.00.
Click here for the summary of the science on it.
Click here for the Early Outpatient Treatment Protocol.

-Uwe-
 
   #596  

DV52

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Don, I fully agree - there are no simple answers to human reactions. Everyone of us reacts to things differently. Everyone of us assess threats to our well being in different ways. No blanket solution will ever be right. All have the right to their own opinion. Simple answers cannot exist in such an environment.

Hindsight is 20:20 they say. Experience is what leads to good decision making. We've experienced one pandemic in our lifetime. Perhaps the second will have less fear and a more reasoned response.
@Bruce: I do like it when we agree - it always gives me a warm sense of satisfying comradery (which is a good thing)!!! :thumbs:

As for your point about analyzing past decisions with the benefit of hindsight - it's a practice that is all too familiar these days. When I worked as an energy market trader, it was a technique that was often attempted (invariably for bad trades) by those who were more interested in elevating their own views rather than in understanding what happened.

Its very non-PC of me to say this, but I'm often reminded of the futility of hindsight based analysis of past decisions when confronted with the views of others about historic Government practices - like the handling of indigenous folk. Whilst there can be no doubt that "first peoples" were treated badly in many instances and there is much that needs to change in the future, it's more than a tad righteous (IMHO) to apply 21st century standards and the evidence of hindsight in criticizing centuries-old decisions - I reckon

Wouldn't it be nice when faced with options if we could all have access to information about the consequence of the decision that we are about to make ??


Don
 
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Bruce

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Wouldn't it be nice when faced with options if we could all have access to information about the consequence of the decision that we are about to make ??
Sure it would be nice - but certainly not real. All we can do is make our best guess.

I suppose the best thing would be to constantly re-evaluate the decisions made and as new information is given, let go of previous decisions, making it possible to make new decisions that encompass the new information. But then, isn't that what we say we are doing?

It is easy for us to be critical; to say those in charge have no clue. I have made such statements. But when burdened with the responsibility of making the hard decisions, one often finds themselves locked in indecision, waiting for the need of decision to go away. We hang onto previous decisions fearing that our next decision will be worse than our last decision. Only when the crisis abates are we actually in a position to look back to see how we might have chosen different. We cannot know in the moment if our decisions will provide the needed clarity and direction. We can only operate on what we have known, what we have been given as opinion, and then make our best guess as how to move forward.

In the case of the pandemic, few stood alone like Sweden. Most followed the herd. Will the Swedes prove to have had the best ideas? If so, all leaders should look at how they arrived at their decisions and compare it to their own decisions; learn from different success.

The question really is, will we? Will we look at the problems and try to learn? Or will we fall to justifying the decisions made?
 
   #598  

PetrolDave

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The question really is, will we? Will we look at the problems and try to learn? Or will we fall to justifying the decisions made?
The politicians will most likely try to hype up their next 'great thing' and hope that the rest of us will allow ourselves to be taken in by the hype and forget the need to learn the lessons from how they handled the pandemic.
 
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DV52

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The politicians will most likely try to hype up their next 'great thing' and hope that the rest of us will allow ourselves to be taken in by the hype and forget the need to learn the lessons from how they handled the pandemic.
Dave: your post reminded me of the principal credo (i.e system of belief) of politics; success has many parents - only failure is a bastard!!
Don
 
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