General Corona Virus Discussion

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DV52

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^ ^^ hmmm.......... at the further risk of "poking-the-bear" again :facepalm: - it's interesting to me to read about America's increasing FLU epidemic vis-a-vis what happened down here during our most recent winter (which occurs mid-year in the deep south).

I have a very good friend who runs a couple of chemist shops (I think "yanks" call these drugstores) and his observation was that there were far less flu related medicines sold this winter down here. Certainly, I can't recall any media items this winter proclaiming increased demand by medical institutions from more traditional, flu related illnesses in our communities.

Anyway, my alchemist friend maintains that the reason for the drop in his sales of flu related medicines was the heightened awareness in the community of good hygiene practices to combat COVID (and dare I say it - strict social distancing rules and wearing masks). Our lock-down happened well after winter, so not related. Again, might just be another fluke - but clearly different up there!!!

Don
 
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Uwe

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my alchemist friend maintains that the reason for the drop in his sales of flu related medicines was the heightened awareness in the community of good hygiene practices to combat COVID
Cool, let's all just wear face-diapers and refrain from social interaction with anyone outside our own house-hold until nobody ever gets sick again.

-Uwe-
 
   #503  

jyoung8607

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The stories regarding hospital capacity have a strangely familiar ring to them. Just a few examples; there are many more:

...

Yet somehow, we didn't force any businesses to close or tell people not to get together with their families for the holidays a few years ago.

I'm pretty sure I'm being trolled at this point, but once more unto the breach, dear friend, once more...

200.gif


CDC on the differences between influenza and COVID-19:

There are some key differences between flu and COVID-19. COVID-19 seems to spread more easily than flu and causes more serious illnesses in some people. It can also take longer before people show symptoms and people can be contagious for longer. Another important difference is there is a vaccine to protect against flu. There is currently no vaccine to prevent COVID-19. The best way to prevent infection is to avoid being exposed to the virus.

Here's some numbers to give you a sense of scale:

Season/IllnessSymptomatic IllnessesHospitalizationsDeaths
2017-2018 Influenza45,000,000810,00061,000
2018-2019 Influenza36,000,000490,00034,000
2019-2020 Influenza38,000,000400,00022,000
COVID-19 February-December 2020(*)45,000,0002,400,000288,762

(*) Deaths through December 10th (today), illness and hospitalization estimates as of November 25th so under-reported somewhat. Source data:
CDC Estimated Influenza Disease Burden, Past Seasons 2010-2020
CDC Estimated US Disease Burden of COVID-19

Please note you can't just compare those figures. They're not apples-to-apples. You see, when you look at COVID-19's totally boring >5x hospitalizations and the merely >10x number of people dying, you have to understand those are happening AFTER a totally unprecedented planetary awareness campaign, radical alterations to the global economy, hundreds of parallel efforts to figure out how to effectively treat severe cases while under extreme pressure, widespread implementation of new hygiene/masking/sanitizing practices, and dozens of moon-shot programs to develop an effective vaccine. None of that really happens for flu seasons, except for tweaking the existing vaccine in hopes it matches next season's strains.

Let's not even get into some of the life-long consequences that some COVID patients are left with even if they don't show up in the deaths column. If we really want to see how many bodies COVID-19 can stack, all we have to do is ignore it. What do you think we should do?
 
   #504  

Uwe

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What do you think we should do?
Let people decide for themselves how much risk they're willing to take. As you said, everyone is aware that this virus is out there.

-Uwe-
 
   #505  

DV52

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Cool, let's all just wear face-diapers and refrain from social interaction with anyone outside our own house-hold until nobody ever gets sick again.

-Uwe-
Uwe: "face diapers"? "anyone outside our own house"? "until nobody gets sick again? hmm..... really?

I like passionate replies (there are far too many apathetic replies IMO) -but in all the time that I have lived through the pandemic restrictions down here, I can't remember ever seeing anyone wearing a diaper on their face (neither unused, or skid-mark stained) !! That said, I have seen some interesting home-made face-mask variants that I reckon would indeed be better suited to nappies!!:D

The answer to your juicily crafted reply is of course NO for so many "right" reasons - far too many to describe in the Bar.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convert anyone -but the other good thing about Australia doing the hard-miles and achieving the succession of double donut days is that we are slowly moving back to the "new normal" (still yet to be fully defined). I'm more than happy with the outcome - and I hope that the numbers in the Northern Hemisphere turn around soon!!

If Americans can replicate their own double donut days by doing more of what they have been doing to date, then "well done you for doing it smarter" - I say!!

Don
 
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DV52

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^^^ ^ @Uwe: just for the record - I have read "Das Kapital" or, rather a translation of the book (it's actually a trilogy - in four parts :D) and there's stuff that Mr. Markx says that I like - and stuff that I don't like (some of his ideas about capitalism are grossly misguided IMO).

To me such labels are not derogatory and I really would have no problem being labelled a communist if I believed in the philosophy - but in truth, I'm no more a "commie" than I would consider you to be a fascist for holding right-leaning views!! :D.

We simply have different beliefs!!

Don
 
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Uwe

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We simply have different beliefs!!
Yes, we do.

“Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”
-- Heinlein

-Uwe-
 
   #510  

VAGDEALER1

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Covids a scam, economic reset is coming, america want operation warpspeed, they want alot of people to die and martial law will come into place. Life will never be normal again and this vaccine will harmm many,
 
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Uwe

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DV52

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Covids a scam, economic reset is coming, america want operation warpspeed, they want alot of people to die and martial law will come into place. Life will never be normal again and this vaccine will harmm many,
@VAGDEALER1 : WOW - so many conspiracy theories in one place!! What a perfect storm COVID is for some?

Don

PS: I wouldn't be paranoid if it wasn't a fact that everyone is against me :D !!
 
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jyoung8607

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Covids a scam, economic reset is coming, america want operation warpspeed, they want alot of people to die and martial law will come into place. Life will never be normal again and this vaccine will harmm many,
Oh look, someone earned enough Ameros from laboring in King-for-Life Obama's FEMA trailer prison camps to buy a couple hours of hotspot time.

Seriously though... go back and read some of the "news" stories you were told a few years ago. Did any of it come to pass?
 
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jyoung8607

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Let people decide for themselves how much risk they're willing to take. As you said, everyone is aware that this virus is out there.
Funny thing though, the things I do and the ways I behave don't set MY risk. They set OUR risk.
 
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DV52

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Funny thing though, the things I do and the ways I behave don't set MY risk. They set OUR risk.

Precisely - well said sir!!!

There is only one route for those who espouse silos-type responses to a pandemic; leave the community and practice what they preach in self imposed personal lock-down - which ironically will have a far greater impact on their lives than any Government imposed lock-down!

COVID doesn't recognize the American constitution, it doesn't give a damn about civil liberties and sure as hell it most certainly won't respect those who believe in individual risk management strategies . In a very real sense, the contagion is the perfect egalitarian mechanism; it treats EVERY member in a community in exactly the same way- from an infection perspective! And without doubt, COVID's most effective weapon in its impressive arsenal has to be it's ability to find and to exploit the weakest-link in the community - which invariably result from those who don't adopt community based health practices

Moral of the story: if individuals in a community want to continue to enjoy the benefits of community life in a post COCID world, they had better start acting as part of the community - else it just won't work!!

Don
 
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Uwe

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Funny thing though, the things I do and the ways I behave don't set MY risk.
Really? You have no influence or control over how much exposure you have, or your own hygiene practices?

-Uwe-
 
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Uwe

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COVID doesn't recognize the American constitution,
Nor does the Constitution recognize a "pandemic" as a reason to restrict people's rights. Heck, the American War of Independence was fought in the midst of a multi-year long smallpox outbreak. Deadly infectious disease outbreaks have been a thing for all of recorded history. Never before have we had the kind of restrictions imposed with this one, and certainly not for a disease with a 99%+ recovery rate, where the majority of people who succumb to it already had one foot in the grave.

I think I've posted this link before, but here it is again:

-Uwe-
 
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DV52

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Nor does the Constitution recognize a "pandemic" as a reason to restrict people's rights.
As you know, I was born and raised in the very deep south - so my understanding of your constitution ain't that good. I've no doubt that the words "pandemic" appears nowhere in that document. However, doesn't your 10th Amendment capture most of the aspects that are normally associated with your government's rights in a pandemic. From here
  • Under the U.S. Constitution’s 10th Amendment and U.S. Supreme Court decisions over nearly 200 years, state governments have the primary authority to control the spread of dangerous diseases within their jurisdictions. The 10th Amendment, which gives states all powers not specifically given to the federal government, allows them the authority to take public health emergency actions, such as setting quarantines and business restrictions.
But this is a minor point of semantics

Heck, the American War of Independence was fought in the midst of a multi-year long smallpox outbreak. Deadly infectious disease outbreaks have been a thing for all of recorded history.
Yes, I agree and I have long suspected that there are many in your communities that are still fighting the American War of Independence (or at the very least- they don't accept the outcome from that battle)!

But Shirley you aren't suggesting that any sane community should be using 18th century medical practices to combat COVID in the 21st Century?

Yes history is indeed replete with cases of infections that decimate large chunks of humanity. The battle between viruses, bacteria, germs and mankind has raged for millennia , and will rage until one, or the other (or both) is extinct! But just like the ability of infectious diseases to mutate and evolve over time, so must the community's medical response to combat these deceases also change. Or should we still be using Medieval practices like leaches to suck-out "bad-blood"?

Never before have we had the kind of restrictions imposed with this one, and certainly not for a disease with a 99%+ recovery rate, where the majority of people who succumb to it already had one foot in the grave

Perhaps more hyperbole, or perhaps confusion between pandemic recovery and death rates - I'm not sure which. According to this, the world-wide recovery rate for COVID as @ 14/12/20 is just a tad over 70% for the cohort of those infected - and the death rate is 2.2%. And for your country according to here, the recovery rate is lower @ 58% with the death rate hovering at 1.8% as @ 16/12/20.

I reckon that with these numbers, it's still a measure of our humanity, that the community acts as one to mitigate the lingering effects of COVID on the 70/58% - and the appalling toll on the 1.8/2.2 % ( who rather than being labelled "one foot in the grave", are actually someone's grandparent, or someone's long-term bride/groom, or someone's dear friend).

It is the measure of us all that we do these things - else we have lost our moral compass and we have learned nothing - IMHO, of course!
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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