General Corona Virus Discussion

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Uwe

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Seems getting Covid-19 and recovering doesn't always give you immunity
If you look hard enough, you can find anecdotal cases of just about anything.

Notice they say nothing about underlying conditions? What's this guy's BMI? What's the likelihood he's got some condition that compromises his immune system? People his age with serious symptoms generally aren't healthy to begin with.

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If you look hard enough, you can find anecdotal cases of just about anything.

Notice they say nothing about underlying conditions? What's this guy's BMI? What's the likelihood he's got some condition that compromises his immune system? People his age with serious symptoms generally aren't healthy to begin with.

-Uwe-
not to mention the false positivity rate on tests. Cant find the article now but saw article where the cdc was lot testing kits back before summer over 50% showed positive even though no sample was taken.

Potential false-positive rate
" in contrast, the false-positive rate of positive results was 80.33%. "
 
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someone made great point this morning all the schools are closed because the disease is so dangerous and we are all going to die if we even think about going outside and if the kids go to school they will be super spreaders. Day care centers have been kept open because just like liquor stores they have been deemed essential.

Remember all the stories about massive outbreaks in daycare centers?????

yeah me neither.
 
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Uwe

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not to mention the false positivity rate on tests. Cant find the article now but saw article where the cdc was lot testing kits back before summer over 50% showed positive even though no sample was taken.
Right now they're "turning the crank" too many times on the PCR test, setting the CT value to 37 or even 40, which produces a "positive" result even when there's just a minuscule amount of viral RNA present, but no actual 'live' virus. This produces a high number of "cases" (positive test results) that are not indicative or a clinical case or even any symptoms. Even the NY Times has admitted this:


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The man from Nevada had no known health problems or immune defects that would make him particularly vulnerable to Covid.
The implication here is that having it and recovering it doesn't confer any immunity. I don't think that's a valid conclusion at all. I found another story that tries to run this line and cites a second example of someone who was infected (and symptomatic) twice. The second example was an 89 year old cancer patient getting chemotherapy!

People are different; different enough that even the best of vaccines for other diseases are not 100% effective. We're now pushing 40 million "cases" world-wide, and we're supposed to believe that getting this bug and recovering from it confers no immunity based on a single-digit number of people who've ostensibly gotten it twice? Sorry, I'm not buying that. There are enough people who work in high-exposure environments such as health care that if there was no immunity after having it once, we should have thousands of re-infections by now.

Oh, and if getting the disease itself confers no immunity, how is a vaccine supposed to work?

-Uwe-
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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   #432  

PetrolDave

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Oh, and if getting the disease itself confers no immunity, how is a vaccine supposed to work?
If my memory serves me correctly (it may not as I'm old!) the "common cold" is also form of coronavirus and most of us keep getting "the common cold" probably because of its ability to rapidly mutate?

I remember reading one other recent report suggesting that Covid-19 has already been seen to mutate so surely it's possible that if a vaccine is too focussed on a particular characteristic of the "first wave" of Covid-19 that the vaccine may be ineffective, or at best partially effective, against a mutated strain of Covid-19?
 
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Uwe

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If my memory serves me correctly (it may not as I'm old!) the "common cold" is also form of coronavirus and most of us keep getting "the common cold" probably because of its ability to rapidly mutate?
Most common colds are caused by rhinoviruses, but some fraction of them (15-30% depending on who you ask) is thought to be caused by coronaviruses.

I remember reading one other recent report suggesting that Covid-19 has already been seen to mutate so surely it's possible that if a vaccine is too focussed on a particular characteristic of the "first wave" of Covid-19 that the vaccine may be ineffective, or at best partially effective, against a mutated strain of Covid-19?
Yes, that's entirely possible. There have also been some major fiascos with coronavirus vaccines for animals.

-Uwe-

PS:
 
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Uwe

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This is rich:
The whole thing is worth reading, but I'll point at this as a start:
Tal Zaks, chief medical officer at Moderna, told The BMJ that ... Hospital admissions and deaths from covid-19 are simply too uncommon in the population being studied for an effective vaccine to demonstrate statistically significant differences in a trial of 30 000 people.
If hospital admissions and deaths are that rare in a population of 30,000 people being studied, why exactly do we need a vaccine?

And even more pointedly, why would certain politicians be talking about making it mandatory?

-Uwe-
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Is it because the vaccine is a possible alleged herding to sterilize or induce the new ethnic cleansing & with zero liabilities, or new experiments by some sick people to make a ton of money on treating ailments by Government subsidy, draining peoples wealth and assets since insurance is almost impossible to purchase, I wonder? :confused:
 
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DV52

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The whole thing is worth reading,
@Uwe: Indeed it is - worth reading!!

I was particularly interested in the reminder about the "Cutter vaccine"
History shows many examples of serious adverse events from vaccines brought to market in periods of enormous pressure and expectation. There were contaminated polio vaccines in 1955, cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome in recipients of flu vaccines in 1976, and narcolepsy linked to one brand of influenza vaccine in 2009.
Don
 
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DV52

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Is it because the vaccine is a possible alleged herding to sterilize or induce the new ethnic cleansing & with zero liabilities, or new experiments by some sick people to make a ton of money on treating ailments by Government subsidy, draining peoples wealth and assets since insurance is almost impossible to purchase, I wonder? :confused:
@Jack@European_Parts: hmm......... perhaps? But more likely, maybe it is because the populous at large wants early access to a vaccine??

Doesn't really matter how effective the medication is - for whatever reason, the great unwashed now believe that a vaccine is the panacea for COVID. Too late now - perception is reality (I suspect that interesting discussion like in Uwe's link are at best academic now)!!

History has shown us that when there is a grass-roots demand for a thing - the effectiveness of the thing is less important than access to the thing.

Don
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Salt in diet is absolutely relevant for COVID.

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