Vehicle Diagnostic Protection SFD

[DV52]

'wheeling' the code to end users is not permitted legaly by VAG. The GEKO token owner needs to be with the car to manually check the vin number of the car. But i think there will be a solution some day when the pressure of big aftermarket diagnostic tool manufacturers is big enough. Or somebody will reverse engineer the sfd alghoritme.

Is that theoretically possible? Probably. But I suspect VWAG would not be amused once they detected someone doing that. I've heard there was a UK-based supplier of very expensive scan tools doing that some years ago and VW came down on them pretty hard. I won't name names, so please don't ask.

GeKo Account - 1 Month​

hmmm.......... I remembered these replies (above) but this morning I came across this webpage which seems to be at odds with the notion that GEKO is a one-to-one facility.

Notwithstanding that @ $200/month, the product being sold ain't for everyone - is it kosher and has anyone used this type of service?

Don

 

[Uwe]

is it kosher

I would speculate that it's not, at least as far as VWAG is concerned, and they have very deep pockets for lawyers, but they generally do not act very quickly.

-Uwe-

 

[DV52]

I would speculate that it's not, at least as far as VWAG is concerned, and they have very deep pockets for lawyers, but they generally do not act very quickly.

-Uwe-

Thanks Uwe - seems odd that VAGupdate would "poke-the-bear" in such an obvious manner, particularly given that penalties from future legal action by VWAG would likely apply retrospectively!!

On a related, but totally separate matter - can VCDS do something similar to this?

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Don

 

[Uwe]

seems odd that VAGupdate would "poke-the-bear" in such an obvious manner

I am scratching my head over this entity. They claim to be "a company under U.S. law" yet they don't describe the type of company entity ("LLC", "Inc.", etc) that they are. The address that they claim to operate from is a VW dealership. However, the site was obviously written by Europeans.

On a related, but totally separate matter - can VCDS do something similar to this?

Right now, no. But bear in mind that there are no cars that have/require/support SFD in the NAR market for us to play with yet, and spending a week or two in Europe to work on this isn't feasible at this time either.

-Uwe-

 

[AINils]

Thanks Uwe - seems odd that VAGupdate would "poke-the-bear" in such an obvious manner, particularly given that penalties from future legal action by VWAG would likely apply retrospectively!!

On a related, but totally separate matter - can VCDS do something similar to this?

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Don

VAGupdate is a scammer Website. HAve seen a lot of problems read in MIB Hacking "Community" . Atleast not sure about theor business as they change adress nearly weekly

 

[downtime]

^ They have other payment plans but in addition to the GEKO access you also need to pay for the VPN. So total for 1 month is nearly $250.

 

[peekay34]

Hi have a new 2020 Sportline if which I was able to code a few functions (of the ones I attempted). But when Skoda applied a recent firmware update they detected the coding and failed the update and red flagged the body electrics...... I removed the adaptions and the firmware update went through but they still red flagged me. I have spoken to some one in the industry who believes this may not be legal to do this not sure if this is the same thing but I am disappointed as this was never picked up on my GTI. So all I have now is to try fight it. The rest of the car is still under warranty apparently...

 

[NEtech]

How did you change the adaptations?
In some of the above mentioned ways, or with original odis tester ?

 

[peekay34]

Wi

How did you change the adaptations?
In some of the above mentioned ways, or with original odis tester ?

Not sure what you mean ... via VCDS cable

 

[siLc]

2020 doesn't automatically mean MQB2020 and SFD. There are still 2020 models for the previous MQB generation vehicles, but these are not the topic of this thread.

 

[DV52]

Hi have a new 2020 Sportline if which I was able to code a few functions (of the ones I attempted). But when Skoda applied a recent firmware update they detected the coding and failed the update and red flagged the body electrics...... I removed the adaptions and the firmware update went through but they still red flagged me. I have spoken to some one in the industry who believes this may not be legal to do this not sure if this is the same thing but I am disappointed as this was never picked up on my GTI. So all I have now is to try fight it. The rest of the car is still under warranty apparently...

Peekay: Some time ago, I spent many hours talking to the master tech at a dealer in Australia who was trying to deny warranty liability on a car which was owned by a local forum member. The problem related to the car's AFS system and the tech had identified a change to the "Access Control" channels in the BCM on a early model Golf MY13.
Anyhow - long story short and notwithstanding the role of the hex09 module for both functions -everyone eventually agreed that it was stretching a very long bow to equate a changed behavior in the car's locking system to a fault in the lighting system.

I don't really understand what is meant by being "red-flagged", but the moral of my storey is that there ain't nothing new about dealers attempting the tactics that you describe (at least in our country). Ultimately, we both can rely on Australia's consumer laws to define our rights under warranty claims. That said, if indeed our use of VCDS has caused a problem - then of course we are liable for the cost of repair.

And yes, at the margin where it is unclear whether VCDS (or any other diagnostic cable) has, or hasn't contributed to a potential warranty matter- the use of the device can be problematic

Don
PS:notwithstanding this example, my general experience has been the most dealers in Australia are reasonable when deciding warranty issues.

 

[PetrolDave]

For several years now Audi (and possibly all VAG companies) have been able to (and in some countries have routinely) check for changes in powertrain modules and set in their systems a flag known as "TD1".

This was widely discussed in the rs246 forum when I had my RS4, see this post on VW Vortex dated 2012:

TD1 Flag

 

[mtl]

But TD1 flag refers to writting modified software (chip tunning), which is of course a warrranty void action. We are talking here about changing settings that are present in factory software, so factory software is not changed.
I have a lot of customers that had warranty issues fixed without a problem on cars that had a lot of codings applied. Not even single issue. I am talking about other platforms, NOT mqb2020.

 

[PetrolDave]

But TD1 flag refers to writting modified software (chip tunning), which is of course a warrranty void action. We are talking here about changing settings that are present in factory software, so factory software is not changed.
I have a lot of customers that had warranty issues fixed without a problem on cars that had a lot of codings applied. Not even single issue. I am talking about other platforms, NOT mqb2020.

I've done many coding and adaptation changes on the VAG cars I've owned (S3, S4, RS4, Octavia) and never had a mention of problems when taken to dealers for servicing. Two of my cars have had ECU remaps done (S3 & RS4) and neither of them have had a problem when serviced by a dealer.

Seems either VAG have got extra sensitive after Dieselgate or the particular dealer OP took his car to is going further than sensible?

 

[mtl]

Not really. Some tunners were able to ”hide” the tune, so it was not recognized by VW software. But that did not quarrante that it will not be recognized also in the future. Because as the tunners find x ways to hide the tune, also VW finds new ways to detect the tune.
I had two customers that had the cars tunned (Golf 7.5R and Seat Alhambra) with ''non-detectable'' tune when they tunned it. But after a year or two, the technician told them that the ECU was redflagged due to the tune and the warranty on the engine will be voided.

 

[DV52]

^^^@mtl / @PetrolDave - your dialogue is very pertinent if the vehicle has "chip tuning" and in this instance I would argue that it's perfectly correct for the dealer to void warranty claims for any related problems; "hiding" the tuner's modifications is not an ethical practice - the car owner should accept liability resulting from the decision to alter the car's software!

However (and as @mtl correctly identified) this is not @peekay34 case

Don

 

[PetrolDave]

^^^@mtl / @PetrolDave - your dialogue is very pertinent if the vehicle has "chip tuning" and in this instance I would argue that it's perfectly correct for the dealer to void warranty claims for any related problems; "hiding" the tuner's modifications is not an ethical practice - the car owner should accept liability resulting from the decision to alter the car's software!

However (and as @mtl correctly identified) this is not @peekay34 case

Don

Don - I was merely pointing out that "red flagging" on detecting changes to the vehicle configuration in nothing new, which I thought worth mentioning.

 

[peekay34]

2020 doesn't automatically mean MQB2020 and SFD. There are still 2020 models for the previous MQB generation vehicles, but these are not the topic of this thread.

In response actually when I try to set settings i don’t believe so VCDS complains that it does not recognise the modules and is expermental from a point of view to programming .... I guess I will have to upload this to rosstech and get them to look at it....

 

[mtl]

For a start you could writte the car that you had this problem on, so we would not be guessing a basic info.

 

[DV52]

interesting video (ignore sound-track) regarding an attempt to reftrofit a trailer module onto a Golf mk8 using HEXT-NET2 -interesting, not so much because of the restrictions caused by SFD, but more because it appears that the venerable SA 20103 has been retained on some modules.

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Don

PS: notice the serial number on the VCDS dongle- Perhaps a "special" relationship with Ross-Tech?