Vehicle Diagnostic Protection SFD

   #261  

MELenium

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Hi kevin#34
If you look at your autoscan, under each module if you look at the vcid line it will mention SFD if your car has it. Not every module will have SFD.
 
   #262  

kevin#34

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thanks, unfortunately I don't have the car with me yet...

any feedback from TT-RS owners?
 
   #263  

mtl

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No. No charge for Geko registration, no subscription fee, no charge for tokens.
Each country is different, because the country importer makes the rules for that country.
 
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   #264  

Al Bundy

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Do you have some news about SFD unlock with VCDS ?
 
   #265  

autocomsoft

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Do you have some news about SFD unlock with VCDS ?

Maybe this post will give You answer.


Jan
 
   #266  

DV52

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Jan: Hi. With no offense intended and of course I can't know for certain, but I suspect that @Al Bundy is in the same market segment as me; meaning that we both don't have the luxury of "off-line" token facilites. So we both can't satisfy the early part of your excellent video (the step where the token is pasted into VCDS)

This from the notes for the latest release version of VCDS

Support for "Mk.8" and ID.x chassis cars is limited.
Functions that read data should work fine, but SFD will restrict changes in some control modules. This release of VCDS does have support for unlocking SFD-protected modules using "off-line" tokens generated by VAG's servers, but Ross-Tech cannot supply such tokens.

Again, I'm guessing - but I suspect @Al Bundy was asking about progress towards a VCDS enthusiast market solution SFD (in much the same way as the "other cable" solution)

However, given the absence of an announcement from Ross-Tech about this specific matter, I suspect that negotiations with the "mother-ship" (to borrow a Uwe-ism) are still on-going.

Not that Ross-Tech has either confirmed, or denied that such negotiations exist!!! ;)

Don
 
   #267  

Al Bundy

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Hello
That's exactly what we were asking about the possibility of VCDS generating that token on its own. Like other interfaces that can do this now.

Do you know how to generate tokens offline?
 
   #269  

alekos

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Good evening,I do not know what OBD ELEVEN can do,I know that from version 1.2022 BOSCH KTS supports this function automatically.This means that VAG has accepted to be cooperated with other companies,so I can not understand why VAG COM can not be one of them.
 
   #270  

Jacek

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Another company introduces the unlocking of SFD, we are waiting for information about Rosstech?

"Autocom Diagnostic Partner


Issue 2022.00 is just around the corner. In addition to updating the vehicle database with new and old vehicles, this is a multi-electric vehicle release, including a Secure Gateway for VAG vehicles!
 
   #271  

stefdds

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This means that VAG has accepted to be cooperated with other companies
I think you are inferring that "cooperation" ! I do appreciate what you are implying, but I don't think that is the case here with SFD.

Time will tell and when it is "legally safe" here in the USA to apply that function to VCDS, I'm sure it will be announced.
 
   #272  

DV52

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I think you are inferring that "cooperation" ! I do appreciate what you are implying, but I don't think that is the case here with SFD.

Time will tell and when it is "legally safe" here in the USA to apply that function to VCDS, I'm sure it will be announced.
@stefdds : Yes, I suspect that you are correct about "cooperation" - but you raise a matter that I had not previously considered regarding the SFD solution for VCDS (meaning the non-GeKo method)

I'm not sure why I haven't recognized this until your post, but of course the BIG difference between Ross-Tech and the other companies that have already implemented the SFD solution is country-of-manufacture; VCDS is made in USA whereas the "other device" is made in Lithuania, and Autocom Diagnostic is made in UK. BINGO!!!

I'm not familiar with the special conditions that make it ""legally [un]safe" here in the USA to apply that function to VCDS" - what are these restrictions?

Don
 
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   #273  

stefdds

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Hi Don, (the restrictions are financial loss!)
I'm not a attorney but I will try to sum it up in very general terms. Here in the US, you can start a lawsuit against any person or any corporation / company ; if you feel that you have been wronged or harmed IN ANY WAY by something they did or manufactured. The "harmed" person finds a attorney who will agree to take their case and the process begins (ie court hearings with your attorney and the corporations attorney(s) must acknowledge - the corp's. have a-lot at stake - and a financial settlement is usually reached: the harmed persons attorney usually gets a third of the financial settlement and you get the rest. May take several years, but the bigger the payoff (ie potential funds available) , the bigger the fight! Personal injury law here in the US is advertised like iphones! "Get the settlement that you disserve" they say or..... "it is about the money" stated in the TV and Radio commercials. (usually started because of a automobile accident or industrial accident etc.)

Even if the accident / situation or manufacturer followed all the rules and did all procedures properly they can still be held (partially) responsible for the accident ; the question then becomes to what extent financially and how convincing your attorney presented the case . It depends on how badly the person was injured or if they were killed and if it is a jury trial (your peers decide guilt or innocence and potentially can feel sympathy for you) . And that is why most times a settlement is reached: no jury, no bad publicity, no nothing. The company pays off the party stating the harm and that individual must keep their mouth closed! The "problem" goes away.

The other side of the coin here is the costs are always running up as time goes on until there is a settlement and usually it is the corporation that is paying their on staff attorneys , so they settle to ultimately save costs / losses ; that is why unless the attorney is pretty sure of the outcome (a win) and there is plenty of money involved or available, they probably will not take the case for the individual ; as the individual has limited resources and probably won't be able to pay any fees anyway. IN Short, If you or your company are successful - you are a financial target! (potentially).

I suspect, in other countries as long as the manufacturer follows all the rules set forth by the government, you can't bring a case against any company. And therefore no financial exposure or loss. I'm not sure, but take the case of diesel gate - even though some personal health reasons could be stated for a personal injury case ("I now have difficulty breathing because my VW was emitting all these harmful gases") the trial was held in Germany with German laws and was most likely not aloud to be brought to the court. If that was a US manufacturer and fraud was found...... sky is the limit financially!

It seems to me, it is all about your comfort level regarding risk vs. financial exposure (the more you have to loose, the more cautious you become - as a company) and in the US, unless it is lawful and agreed upon by all involved what you are proposing or doing as a company, your financial risk is much greater. That is, lets say VAG is called into US court for a personal injury case against a scan tool company involving vw/audi cars and the attorney says to VAG....... so, did you approve of or cooperate in any way to help this scan tool company let the public make these changes to their car..... and VAG says "nope" we only have authorized dealers access this feature...... guess who is (mostly)"on the hook" the scan company and they would be wiped out financially....... but...... the attorney would also go after VAG (the big prize) because of its vast resources $$$$$.
The more "creative" the company is, the more risk they expose themselves to. Tesla self driving also comes to mind (can you imagine a software company who is altering that!) ; I'm sure the deceased persons family was financially compensated by Tesla and their insurer (Insurance company) ; a settlement to "make it go away".

Anyway, that's the big picture in the USA (generally speaking) hope you get the idea!
 
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   #274  

DV52

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@stefdds : Thank you for the detailed information. Yes, I had been aware of the litigious-rich culture in your country - but I hadn't considered this practice to be relevant in the implementation of a GeKo-free SFD-solution for VCDS!!

Maybe it's just that I haven't been immersed in your American culture that causes my confusion, but I would have thought that Ross-Tech already manages this same risk for its substantive stable of diagnostic products (and it has done so, for many years). Currently, VCDS has a token-based solution to SFD - the development of which I assume involved little, if any discussion with VAG - because it appears to use standard facilities that are universally available to everyone.

The non-GeKo SFD-solution however seems to be a totally different matter in that it appears to require customized VAG resources that are peculiar to the external diagnostic manufacturer. For the first solution (i.e. the un-named firm in Lithuanian), the company admitted that their "special" relationship with VAG was instrumental in delivery of the SFD product.

This suggests (to me at least) that some form of inter-corporate agreement (both legal and technical) is needed if anyone else wishes to produce the same outcome.

Now, I'm not sure, but I would guess that this has happened a second time for the UK company Autocom Diagnostic.

So, assuming that my logic/assumptions are correct, if Ross-Tech wanted to release a version of VCDS with a non-GeKo style SFD solution, it seems a reasonable guess that they would need to get an inter-corporate agreement with VAG. And again without knowing much about VAG's legal practices, I would also think that VAG would be offering substantially the same terms and conditions as for the previous businesses.

And, because these external businesses want something that VAG has, I reckon that the negotiating balance of discussions would be more than a tad skewed in VAG's favour. So. I suspect that VAG would face little risk from America's litigation-rich dynamic - as you have described (because they would pass-through the risks to Ross-Tech)

Anyhow, all interesting supposition in the deafening silence of any official message about a VCDS solution for the enthusiast market!!

Don
 
   #275  

stefdds

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I do know what you mean regarding RT's current products , but the SFD does seem to take VAG proprietary property, so to speak, a step further and the ability to access it. And, I think (not knowing the laws involved) could come under copyright laws here in the US. Perhaps the laws have changed in the US and RT's current products are "grandfathered in" / accepted.

For example, you can no longer copy or download free music here in the US (legally); you must purchase it in the I-tunes store. Surely because of copyright laws that the license owners of the music decided to enforce because of internet technology and the scope and scale of the copying. It really made a impact on revenues for the license holders.

This is only a example, I really do not know. But here in the US, it is usually based on laws and the financial risk in breaking them. And no independent vender is going to stand up to VAG if they point their finger at you! Remember, right or wrong, if VAG calls you on something they disagree with , the vender would still have to get representation (cost) in order to clean things up. Who wants to deal with that !

Maybe VAG wants X amount for every sale or transaction made and that does not make financial sense for RT . (??).

Heck, for all we know VAG sent out letters to all US venders stating copyright infringements laws (cease and desist..... or else) and that they planned on enforcing them from X date forward. (?)



Good to chat with you.
 
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   #277  

sarjin

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Do not buy on SFD obdeleven because what they sell today may not be valid tomorrow.
 
   #278  

Meerschaut

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Hi all,

Is there already a solutions for the SFD unlock with VCDS?
The reference of post #268 i cannot find the solutions on the previous page. 😅

If not, which other cables can do the unlock and which one you can recommend?

I just use VCDS as an enthousiast and i’m not able to get a geko account. I also have VCDS only, would it be recommended to have a second cable of an other manufacturer?

Thanks in advance.

With friendly greetings,
Nick
 
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