Address 02: Auto Trans Cannot be reached

   #21  

rich222

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Well wadya know! Today I read my TMC and ABS. Found a couple of old codes, cleared them and all is good with the world.

Seems that you have to turn on Bypass Can Init in the settings.

This allows me to read TMC and ABS. They still wont read in autoscan though. But thats not a problem.


Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09E-927-156.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 09E 927 760 K HW: GS1 911 4
Component and/or Version: ZWGU3406 6L W12TT 3406
Software Coding: 0000111
Work Shop Code: WSC 00083 790 00000
VCID: 38292F8F2E4598C7315-5160
No fault code found.


The ABS on my car is different to the 06 car. Its an ESP 8.1 4WD H01 0250, so maybe that is why it won't read in autoscan?
 
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   #22  

Jef

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This isn't normal... there might be some old school K-Lines in the car still. I'm aware that CAN diagnostics cars sometimes had a K-Line to the transmission, but not heard of one going to the ABS.

Undo the Bypass CAN Init.

From the first screen of VCDS, click on [Select] then try the ABS or TCM and see if they talk. If so, what is the protocol listed in the upper left corner?

 
   #23  

rich222

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This isn't normal... there might be some old school K-Lines in the car still. I'm aware that CAN diagnostics cars sometimes had a K-Line to the transmission, but not heard of one going to the ABS.

Undo the Bypass CAN Init.

From the first screen of VCDS, click on [Select] then try the ABS or TCM and see if they talk. If so, what is the protocol listed in the upper left corner?

When accessing the ABS, VCDS is trying CAN-TP1.6

Then it says : Protocol TP 1.6-2000

Then it says: G2KM=-2 G2KM=-2

It repeats several time then says: Too many communications errors!
 
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rich222

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When I try the TCM, it hangs for a few seconds with windpws busy then fails immediately with KLine Init Failed.

If I check the init bypass, it connects with protocol KWP2000.
 
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rich222

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Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09E-927-156.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 09E 927 760 K HW: GS1 911 4
Component and/or Version: ZWGU3406 6L W12TT 3406
Software Coding: 0000111
Work Shop Code: WSC 00083 790 00000
VCID: 38292F8F2E4598C7315-5160
No fault code found.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3W0-614-511.clb
Control Module Part Number: 3W0 614 511 HW: 3W0 614 511
Component and/or Version: ESP 8.1 4WD H01 0250
Software Coding: 0002308
Work Shop Code: WSC 00083 790 00000
VCID: 6C81C3DF2A9DE46705D-5160
No fault code found.

Scans of TMC and ABS with KWP2000 protocol
 
   #26  

Jef

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Any chance of you "borrowing" an ABS part number 3W0-614-511 for testing purposes? I'm not sure why those modules won't talk to a scan tool over CAN diagnostics. If it is the modules themselves, then swapping them out would resolve the issue.

Maybe one of our top level nerds might chime in with some debug assistance?
 
   #27  

rich222

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Hi Jef,

It seems that both the TMC and ABS has this issue, although they react differently to VCDS.

I read an 06 car without any issues.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09E-927-156.lbl
Part No SW: 09E 927 760 S HW: GS1 911 4
Component: AG6 09E 6.0L W12TT 2807
Revision: 00000001 Serial number: 0084638
Coding: 0000111
Shop #: WSC 00083 000 00000
VCID: 40D9476F7695D007897-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3W0-614-517-V1.lbl
Part No: 3W0 614 517 D
Component: ESP 5.7 4WD H01 0021
Coding: 0007878
Shop #: WSC 15937 000 00000
VCID: 363521B724516EB723B-51F2

1 Fault Found:
01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30
000 - - - Intermittent



There are differences in the modules:

Component version for the TMC: AG6 09E 6.0L W12TT 2807 in the 06 and ZWGU3406 6L W12TT 3406 in the 09

The ABS modules are:

3W0 614 517 D in the 06 car and 3W0 614 511 in the 09 car.
 
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   #28  

Jef

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Yes, but I'm guessing the 2006 car uses K-Line for everything, not CAN diagnostics. Connect back to it, go to [Auto-Scan] then click [Gateway Installation List] and see if you get a function not supported message.
 
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rich222

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Yes, but I'm guessing the 2006 car uses K-Line for everything, not CAN diagnostics. Connect back to it, go to [Auto-Scan] then click [Gateway Installation List] and see if you get a function not supported message.
Can't reconnect to the 06 car. it was a one off scan. The VCDS didn't list the modules when I ran autoscan, so assuming it didn't support the gateway installation list?
 
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rich222

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Won't switching on debugging help explain why VCDS can't talk to the Bosch 8.1 ABS?
 
   #31  

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Did you know K & L lines can get cluttered up and even when using the early scanner used a bifurcation VAS6017B adapter to segregate this early shit?

Maybe the gateway in car is screwy?
 
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rich222

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Did you know K & L lines can get cluttered up and even when using the early scanner used a bifurcation VAS6017B adapter to segregate this early shit?

Maybe the gateway in car is screwy?
Early? An 06 car I tried scanned ok. Would be great to find someone else with an 09 Speed to see what theirs does...

I tried a gateway refesh. (Load the same coding).

Without knowing exactly what VCSD is doing to initiate comms, its going to be hard to get to the bottom of this, but its no longer a big issue for me as I can now work around it if I need to.
 
   #33  

rich222

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Any chance of you "borrowing" an ABS part number 3W0-614-511 for testing purposes? I'm not sure why those modules won't talk to a scan tool over CAN diagnostics. If it is the modules themselves, then swapping them out would resolve the issue.

Maybe one of our top level nerds might chime in with some debug assistance?


So anyone from Ross-tech have any more ideas why I have to bypass Can Init to read the TCM? A Top level nerd perhaps?

Shame there is no debugging info when its trying to talk to the ABS...
 
   #34  

rich222

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So anyone from Ross-tech have any more ideas why I have to bypass Can Init to read the TCM? A Top level nerd perhaps?

Shame there is no debugging info when its trying to talk to the ABS...
Hello?

Anyone able to shed any more light on this mystery ???
 
   #35  

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Anyone able to shed any more light on this mystery ???
Dang it, I don't understand why one of the Top level nerds hasn't gone out to the 2009 Bentley GT Speed that we keep in our parking lot for testing purposes to see if he can reproduce this behavior. ;)

-Uwe-
 
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rich222

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Dang it, I don't understand why one of the Top level nerds hasn't gone out to the 2009 Bentley GT Speed that we keep in our parking lot for testing purposes to see if he can reproduce this behavior. ;)

-Uwe-
Maybe the parking lot is full of new ones...

Seriously though, what does 'Bypass Can Init' do, force VCDS to use the K line instead?

If the car is not showing any signs of Canbus problems, can we assume the car's modules are coping with a possible wiring fault and the Hex-V2 is not?

Or is there some wierd problem in the Canbus gateway which causes an issue between the OBD connector canbus and the gateway?

I believe that all the cars canbuses are preset at the OBD connector (Powertrain on 3,11 Infotainment on 2,10 Comfort on 8,9) but pressumably the Hex-V2 only talks via the standard OBD canbus on pins 6,14 that connects directly to the gateway in the instrument panel?

Is it worth me looking at monitoring the powertrain canbus to capture data to the TCM? I have some MCP2515 boards.
 
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Uwe

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Seriously though, what does 'Bypass Can Init' do, force VCDS to use the K line instead?
Correct.

If the car is not showing any signs of Canbus problems, can we assume the car's modules are coping with a possible wiring fault and the Hex-V2 is not?

Or is there some wierd problem in the Canbus gateway which causes an issue between the OBD connector canbus and the gateway?
I don't know what's going on here. It's possible the TCU in this car simply doesn't know how to do diagnostic communications via CAN bus. There were plenty of control modules in the early 2000s that used CAN bus for intra-vehicle comms, which only supported diagnostics on K-line. I just wouldn't expect to find that in a car that has a proper Gateway with an Installation List, although there have been occasional exceptions, for example the Telematics module used on some of the early D3/4E A8s, and there was another, more recent one as well, but I don't remember what it was.

I believe that all the cars canbuses are preset at the OBD connector (Powertrain on 3,11 Infotainment on 2,10 Comfort on 8,9) but pressumably the Hex-V2 only talks via the standard OBD canbus on pins 6,14 that connects directly to the gateway in the instrument panel?
Other buses being present on the OBD-II socket is quite unusual. This is something that VAG normally does not do, and for good reasons -- they don't want some random thing plugged into the OBD-II socket to be able to lock up a CAN bus. Hence normally, the only CAN bus at the OBD-II socket is the dedicated diagnostic CAN, and all traffic is routed through the Gateway. The glaring exception to this rule was the B7 A4. It had the powertrain CAN bus directly on pins 6 and 14 and lacks a gateway entirely.

Is it worth me looking at monitoring the powertrain canbus to capture data to the TCM? I have some MCP2515 boards.
It would be more interesting to see/know what the factory tool does to talk to this TCU.

-Uwe-
 
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Uwe,

Your old Tow-rig did this too on a bunch of modules, spoke on TP1.6, K line and TP2.0?

Maybe OP has clutter on CAN or Termination resistor at respective controller is burnt?

OP what happens if you add a 100 ohm resistor across CAN at respective modules in question?

Is it possible this controllers don't have CAN in stack for diagnostics when review of the modules flash or project file?
 
   #39  

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Correct.


I don't know what's going on here. It's possible the TCU in this car simply doesn't know how to do diagnostic communications via CAN bus. There were plenty of control modules in the early 2000s that used CAN bus for intra-vehicle comms, which only supported diagnostics on K-line. I just wouldn't expect to find that in a car that has a proper Gateway with an Installation List, although there have been occasional exceptions, for example the Telematics module used on some of the early D3/4E A8s, and there was another, more recent one as well, but I don't remember what it was.


Other buses being present on the OBD-II socket is quite unusual. This is something that VAG normally does not do, and for good reasons -- they don't want some random thing plugged into the OBD-II socket to be able to lock up a CAN bus. Hence normally, the only CAN bus at the OBD-II socket is the dedicated diagnostic CAN, and all traffic is routed through the Gateway. The glaring exception to this rule was the B7 A4. It had the powertrain CAN bus directly on pins 6 and 14 and lacks a gateway entirely.


It would be more interesting to see/know what the factory tool does to talk to this TCU.

-Uwe-
It's odd that an 06 car scans fine so that would indicates the TCM does use CAN for diagnostics. I doubt they'd stop that in 08?

According to IETIS, there was a lot of can bus wiring changes in 2008 and then again in 2009. The MY08 shows 2 can busses on the OBD connector (gateway on 6,14 and infotainment on 2,10). The MY09 shows 4 can busses on the OBD connector.

from 2008 onwards Bentley went from splices in the loom to plug in headers which common up can bus wires in groups. Not that that should have any bearing on this issue.

I might see what a local indy dealer uses for their diagnostics and see if they can read the transmission.

Might also try a WBH-diag OBD interface and see what that does...
 
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Uwe

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It's odd that an 06 car scans fine so that would indicates the TCM does use CAN for diagnostics.
Do you have a scan from the 06 car we can look at to see what the difference might be?

-Uwe-
 
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