People renting VCDS

   #2  

Bruce

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We do not condone it. We cannot prevent it. We will not support those who rent when they want/need assistance without them being a licensed registered user. In the forum, they will be restricted to the new user section.

We are aware of the party who rents these VCDS systems.
 
   #3  

mak

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We do not condone it. We cannot prevent it. We will not support those who rent when they want/need assistance without them being a licensed registered user. In the forum, they will be restricted to the new user section.

We are aware of the party who rents these VCDS systems.

You should rent them and not give them back. They keep the deposit and then have to buy another one from you :-)
 
   #4  

myounus

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Why not make the forums accesible only to members only. That should kill the black market and stop this sort of behaviour.
 
   #5  

Santos

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Why not make the forums accesible only to members only. That should kill the black market and stop this sort of behaviour.
The forum can be viewed by anyone. However, only Verified VCDS and VCDS-Lite customers can post in most of the sections.
 
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   #6  

myounus

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The forum can be viewed by anyone. However, only Verified VCDS and VCDS-Lite customers can post in most of the sections.
Exactly my point, make the forums ACCESSIBLE only to members.
 
   #7  

PetrolDave

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Exactly my point, make the forums ACCESSIBLE only to members.
Surely some part needs to be accessible to non-members so that they can post a request to become members?
 
   #8  

myounus

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Surely some part needs to be accessible to non-members so that they can post a request to become members?
Fair point but the main forum information should be restricted. It'll kill off the black market trade in illegal VCDS cables. They buy a clone and then get all the info from the forums.
 
   #9  

Bruce

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We have been at this for nearly 20 years - in May of 2020 it will be 20 years and we will celebrate that anniversary. Over those years, we have had to change our model somewhat. Early on, all data in label files was readable by the user of VAG-COM/VCDS. As we saw more and more large companies taking our files and using them in their own tools, we decided to protect what we had built knowing we were going to have to hurt the very people we chose to support - the VAG enthusiasts. You see, the backbone of our business model has been to help and serve people wanting to make their VAG cars run well. Along the way, we created a company that has been beneficial to countless people, especially to those of us who earn our living working here. From the start, Uwe's mantra has been to help the community. We were at a point where we had to decide to protect our own future - the future of VAG-COM and of Ross-Tech. It was not a painless nor easy decision.

It is not our purpose to lock others out. We want people here to get answers. We want to be known as the place to go and get those answers. Yes, for sure, we would rather all would spend with us, helping to keep us going. We will not withhold information from those that choose to go another path. What justification can be given to withhold information that will help those in the VAG community love their ride? How does holding back promote our business and our business model? What is it that led you here? My guess is most came because the tool is good and the support has been touted as the best. Holding back is exactly what the big box tools have done for years. How many of us wanted to rail against them because they would not help us?

No, let's not throw out who we are. Let's be bigger than those who think they are clever and find a way to make money off what others work to make. We can be bigger. We are better. We are not whores running after profit. We are people who value knowledge and effort and we do not have to stoop to the ways of others. No, let's keep as much open as we can and keep on helping one another. The world will be a better place when we do. And, I believe our efforts will be rewarded with loyal and happy users. Maybe I am naive but if I am, then so is the boss.
 
   #10  

myounus

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Bruce I agree with the principles but the world has changed. VCDS is the best undoubtedly which is why you're getting unscrupulous individuals cheating the very people who have those principles.
We could go further and say why doesn't VCDS do more? Why can't it flash like ODIS e or VCP? Why can't it add parameters? Why is it restricted?

There are so many thieves making forgeries for profit, stealing money that could be reinvested in giving the cable those options to help the community. There comes a time where you have to balance that. Let's look at this another way, if VCDS goes under what is left for all VAG enthusiasts, £2000 crappy programmers or getting ripped off by VAG.
 
   #11  

NitrousOxide

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You should rent them and not give them back. They keep the deposit and then have to buy another one from you :-)
That wouldn't be financially feasible for Ross-Tech to do in my opinion. You are talking about throwing away $49+$350 when a genuine current generation Ross-Tech cable only costs $199 for DIYers. After you have gotten the "genuine" ~$49 rentals off the market, there will still be (possibly millions of) Chinese knock-offs now made available for rental on eBay (since you have now made it a lucrative business to intentionally forfeit the $350 security deposit).

I'm surprised that group on eBay actually make any money, since there are cheaper third party alternatives with label files and everything accessible from your smartphone.
 
   #12  

NitrousOxide

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We could go further and say why doesn't VCDS do more? Why can't it flash like ODIS e or VCP?
You are putting Ross-Tech in dangerous territory when a careless end-user bricks a car during a botched flashing operation such as an airbag, ECU, immobilizer or instrument cluster and the car refuses to start. Who accepts liability then?
 
   #13  

Jack@European_Parts

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Bruce I agree with the principles but the world has changed. VCDS is the best undoubtedly which is why you're getting unscrupulous individuals cheating the very people who have those principles.
We could go further and say why doesn't VCDS do more? Why can't it flash like ODIS e or VCP? Why can't it add parameters? Why is it restricted?

There are so many thieves making forgeries for profit, stealing money that could be reinvested in giving the cable those options to help the community. There comes a time where you have to balance that. Let's look at this another way, if VCDS goes under what is left for all VAG enthusiasts, £2000 crappy programmers or getting ripped off by VAG.

Locks are for honest people, the skilled or even copy cat thief needs no keys!




 
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   #14  

DV52

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Why can't it flash like ODIS e or VCP? Why can't it add parameters?
Agree -wholeheartedly!!! Why-not? Also agree about the excellence of VCDS in the diagnostic industry FOR WHAT IT DOES. But alas, when viewed from the perspective of a usable multi-function device -VCDS's podium position has to be downgraded to penultimate status (because of its EEPROM limitations).

Why is it restricted?

A very good question indeed!! Why does Ross-Tech leave the EEPROM market to VCP and ODIS? It's clear that Ross-Tech sees VCDS as having a legitimate place in the "professional" sales sector. Just read the posts on this forum and it's not surprising that lots of "professionals" are participating. So why not capture the clearly obvious sales opportunities in that market sector? To do so would advantage both buyers (because it satisfies an obvious need) and the shareholder(s). So, a rare win-win outcome (and this is one of those even more rare win-win situations where both wins don't fall to the seller! ;) ).

Perhaps VCDS's absence from the EEPROM market is because RT sees its future in the "enthusiast" sales sector (not sure). And, perhaps a move into the EEPROM market is seen as possibly alienating less-sophisticated users (again, not sure). If this is so (and in support of mantra from other responses) even that other "enthusiast-centric" manufacturer, OBDeleven has recognized that "times-they are a chang'n" - their latest NEXTGEN dongles now support EEPROM programming (notwithstanding that I haven't actuality been able to make this new function work).

I acknowledge of course that these are matters for Ross-Tech to decide - it's just interesting (IMO) to speculate as an outsider - from a user perspective with no ill intentions in putting thoughts to pen/keyboard!!!

You are putting Ross-Tech in dangerous territory when a careless end-user bricks a car during a botched flashing operation such as an airbag, ECU, immobilizer or instrument cluster and the car refuses to start. Who accepts liability then?
With respect - if this risk motivates Ross-Tech's corporate decisions to not enter the EEPROM market, then their competitors' Board (i.e for VCP, and ODIS, and (now) OBD11) are either woefully negligent to their shareholders, or they have found the secret risk mitigation solution!!!

In truth, these risks (if they exist in any real form to the manufacturers at all) can be, and are managed by virtually every corporate enterprise around the world. This same risk exist now for Ross-Tech in that it's entirely possible to "brick" a car with the current VCDS capabilities. The legal consequences of a user suing Ross-Tech for his/her mistakes must be small (even in a litigious country like Ross-Tech's home) else Uwe and his band of merry-men would be working in another industry by now (IMO)

Don
 
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   #15  

Uwe

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Why not make the forums accesible only to members only. That should kill the black market and stop this sort of behaviour.
People used to ask that about the RT Wiki too. Sure, clone users, and even users of other tools benefit from the information published there, but in the end, the see who put it out there, which acts as a form of advertising and brings us business. The same is true with the forum. Use the internet search engine of your choice and look for VAG related info and chances are good some of the top results will be in the RT Wiki, forum, or some of the static content on the main site. If we limit this stuff to registered users only, it basically kills its advertising value.

-Uwe-
 
   #16  

Uwe

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A very good question indeed!! Why does Ross-Tech leave the EEPROM market to VCP and ODIS?
Goodness, we've strayed far off the original topic of rental cables. ;)

It's due to quite a few factors.

That's all I'm going to say about it for now.

-Uwe-
 
   #17  

NitrousOxide

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Perhaps VCDS's absence from the EEPROM market is because RT sees its future in the "enthusiast" sales sector (not sure). And, perhaps a move into the EEPROM market is seen as possibly alienating less-sophisticated users (again, not sure).
I'm of the opinion, you have answered the question correctly.

As it relates to your example of OBDeleven moving into the EEPROM market, it is a delicate topic as some of the "features" or "One-click Apps" that OBDeleven are not always thoroughly tested, or contains bugs which has resulted in numerous coding issues in people's modules (such as that annoying byte 18 which people misunderstand when playing around with the lights). You and I have to go through and moderate those threads where individuals make all sorts of improper coding changes without even creating a basic "backup" or original coding and adaptations. Are you sure you really want to give OBDeleven users the ability to do EEPROM changes? Folks who feel the need to access EEPROM by now would have already have ODISe, VCP, AVDI / Abrites, etc.
 
   #18  

Jack@European_Parts

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Not just liability with consumer but would not the next thing that happens, is VCDS would be considered a possible defeat device by regulatory agencies or regulations in the US or other Countries too?
Change of configuration from certificate of conformity is exactly why diesel gate scandal was such an Issue right and they lied to consumer? Who the hell wants part of those liability implications for even being accused of failing to comport with Safe Act or Clean Air Act?

It has forced me doing lawful repairs to keep logs of everything I do & to prove integrity, with a paper trail of documents as if doing FAA repairs doing an annual or AD on aircraft, why? Fuck that, I'm not going to be sacrificed for anyone's forged bullshit instrument and if you don't think some asshole in law enforcement would try too and to advance a career you are sadly mistaken, right?

Hey do you know why I pulled you over?
Why were you speeding?
Yeah you were pushing me tailgating illegally and it's documented on cars DVR on cloud, did you know what you did is wrong and entrapment, want to go to court civilly and litigate it?
 
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   #19  

DV52

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Are you sure you really want to give ... users [of that other manufacturer] the ability to do EEPROM changes? Folks who feel the need to access EEPROM by now would have already have ODISe, VCP, AVDI / Abrites, etc.
.

It's too late anyways, because the EEPROM facility has been released, but without a shadow of a doubt- my answer is a resounding "YES" - most definitely I would favor making an EEPROM facility available!!!

IMHO, the correct principle to apply for decision making in this matter (and it ain't particularly focused on that other manufacturer's dongles) is the counterfactual question: should the rest of the market that has an interest in using their diagnostic devices for EEPROM changes be denied that facility because the are some "less informed" users (and I don't intend this descriptor as a pejorative term - we were ALL "less informed" at some time)?

As a general rule, I don't believe that corporations and commercial products are advantaged by being led by the slowest users. I know that it's a cliche - but quite the opposite, excellence in commerce is about satisfying the most informed users needs (because it's these opportunities that eventually and invariably become the norm)

Don
 
   #20  

DV52

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Yeah you were pushing me tailgating illegally and it's documented on cars DVR on cloud, did you know what you did is wrong and entrapment, want to go to court civilly and litigate it?
Jack: wow - what can I say? Most definitely, you are an individual thinker (which is a good thing)!!

Have you ever needed to take the DVR data before a judge, or has the mere fact of its existence been sufficient?

Don
 
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