01 MK4 Jetta 1.8T Immobilizer (first time poster....)

   #21  

MartinsX

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
1,230
Location
Riga, Latvia
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=268515
Don't know NAR versions specifics, but in Europe those MK4 clusters use to die in more or less similar way. I even haven't tried to repair them, just replaced with used ones from junkyard ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
   #22  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,711
Reaction score
8,807
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Mr. X

Failure is one thing sure, however, self editing text from CAP's to Lower case text is an entirely different story no or maybe it's possible you saw that too?
 
   #23  

MartinsX

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
1,230
Location
Riga, Latvia
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=268515
Mr. X

Failure is one thing sure, however, self editing text from CAP's to Lower case text is an entirely different story no or maybe it's possible you saw that too?
Haven't seen, or, maybe, haven't paid attention. If I see fault codes
Code:
01128 - Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2) 
            35-10 - - - Intermittent
01176 - Key 
            65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
and pickup coil and key both are ok, my next step is replace IPC. While they are available at junkyards for relatively low price, I have no reason for deeper investigation.
 
   #25  

MartinsX

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
1,150
Reaction score
1,230
Location
Riga, Latvia
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=268515
I think we can leave OP with all his responsibilities why and how IPC went out of order.
From technical point of view IPC is faulty and need to be replaced.
From legal point of view, how I understand from US law, spare part may be new or used, but original mileage must be saved and transfered to replacement IPC.
 
   #26  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,711
Reaction score
8,807
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Yes but in OP use case the odometer reading he states is also FUBAR!

So it's a matter of disclosure now and verification.

I look forward to helping just rules to play by that I follow.
 
   #27  

Dunwood

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
21
Reaction score
18
Location
CA, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=370890
MartinsX and Jack....while you two are trading what ifs and thens, I had to explain to my wife and daughter what FUBAR meant. Thanks a lot....

Then I stuck myself with the thick end of needle trying to check the ohms of the immobilizer coil....(Jack Bauer says 24...ohms.)
I have to get me a few of those T-shaped needles from Joann's. Anyone know the technical term for those little buggers? No fancy piercing probes here.
Pulled the load reduction rely, tested on the 'ole batteria, and it don't work consistently. Plus I see a fair amount of carbon marking.....smoking gun perhaps?

There was a mark on the side that said "I don't do CAPS" just sayin...

OP back at ya
 
   #28  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,711
Reaction score
8,807
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Come on you are so close fill out form and provide title copy please.
What does VCDS say in adv blocks for key status when asking with each key and for all key blocks?

Post the data here....
 
   #29  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
30,485
Reaction score
21,740
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
I think we can leave OP with all his responsibilities why and how IPC went out of order.
From technical point of view IPC is faulty and need to be replaced.
This seems likely.

From legal point of view, how I understand from US law, spare part may be new or used, but original mileage must be saved and transfered to replacement IPC.
My understanding: The law makes deliberate tampering illegal, particularly with the intent to defraud/deceive, but it does not disallow the installation of a used cluster with incorrect mileage, or even a brand new cluster with 0 miles on it. For example, I have a Yamaha motorcycle that had the original cluster replaced at approximately 3000 miles, and there is no provision from the Yamaha to adjust the mileage on them, even when the cluster is brand new. What the dealer did is put a sticker on the inside lid of the "glove box" indicating that the cluster had been replaced and the correct mileage is 3000 more than the odometer indicates. So if a cluster is installed that has the wrong mileage on it, that's OK, but the fact that this has been done must be disclosed at the time the vehicle is sold. Disclosure can be in the form or "The correct mileage is X" or "The correct mileage is unknown".

-Uwe-
 
   #30  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,711
Reaction score
8,807
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
My understanding: The law makes deliberate tampering illegal, particularly with the intent to defraud/deceive, but it does not disallow the installation of a used cluster with incorrect mileage, or even a brand new cluster with 0 miles on it. For example, I have a Yamaha motorcycle that had the original cluster replaced at approximately 3000 miles, and there is no provision from the Yamaha to adjust the mileage on them, even when the cluster is brand new. What the dealer did is put a sticker on the inside lid of the "glove box" indicating that the cluster had been replaced and the correct mileage is 3000 more than the odometer indicates. So if a cluster is installed that has the wrong mileage on it, that's OK, but the fact that this has been done must be disclosed at the time the vehicle is sold. Disclosure can be in the form or "The correct mileage is X" or "The correct mileage is unknown".

-Uwe-


Yes Uwe, however, it must be disclosed.

When work is being done by third party or as a professional business, they also have a custodial responsibility and more specifically when it comes to digital odometers & that are after 1994 for verification & by getting a written form on file with proof of ownership.

We as a professional locksmith or repair shop & are required to adhere to a higher standard of verification threshold for NY state law & which also subordinates CA DMV and SMOG law + federal NHTSA standards.

Second the OP is looking for immo defeat as a possible option & to save money and that too needs a disclosure on file.

Personally I'd like to see the OP do Immo defeat & because of cars age that exceeds mechanical limits, plus it will save him money and we get him a cluster that is defaulted or default his possibly or new and he just sets the miles himself transferring any further liability as if he bought the part new at dealer within first 160 miles.

This car is Immo2 and doesn't display a VIN anyway so it would comport!

For me it is about verification first in written record and I don't deviate.


https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipment/odometer-fraud

THE TOPIC

[h=1]Protecting Against Odometer Fraud[/h]​

[h=2]WHO WE ARE[/h][FONT=&quot]RELATED TOPIC
[FONT=&quot]
VEHICLE THEFT PREVENTION

[/FONT]The Office of Odometer Fraud Investigations consists of four regional offices: Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, and Western. Each office is staffed with a criminal investigator and administrative support. The office is tasked with reducing the cost of vehicle ownership by deterring odometer fraud according to Federal laws and requirements.

[h=2]HOW TO PROTECT AGAINST ODOMETER FRAUD[/h]It can be difficult, but not impossible, to detect whether a vehicle’s odometer has been altered. The following is a list of tips to help used-car buyers detect odometer fraud:

  • Ask to see the title and compare the mileage on it with the vehicle’s odometer. Be sure to examine the title closely if the mileage notation seems obscured or is not easy to read.
  • Compare the mileage on the odometer with the mileage indicated on the vehicle’s maintenance or inspection records. Also, search for oil change and maintenance stickers on windows or door frames, in the glove box or under the hood.
  • Check that the numbers on the odometer gauge are aligned correctly. If they’re crooked, contain gaps or jiggle when you bang on the dash with your hand, walk away from the purchase.
  • Examine the tires. If the odometer on your car shows 20,000 or less, it should have the original tires.
  • Look at the wear and tear on the vehicle—especially the gas, brake and clutch pedals—to be sure it seems consistent with and appropriate for the number of miles displayed on the odometer.
  • Request a vehicle history report to check for odometer discrepancies in the vehicle’s history. If the seller does not have a vehicle history report, use the car’s VIN to order a vehicle history report online.
  • If you suspect fraud, contact your State’s enforcement agency.

[h=2]HOW TO CONTACT US[/h]Do you need to file an odometer fraud case with your dealership? Contact NHTSA’s Vehicle Safety Hotline at 888-327-4236 (TTY for individuals with hearing impairments: 800-424-9153).
Do you need to file an individual odometer fraud case? Contact your State enforcement agency.
You may also contact the Office of Odometer Fraud Investigations at the following address: Office of Odometer Fraud Investigations, U.S. Department of Transportation / NHTSA, Room W55-301, 1200 New Jersey Avenue SE., Washington, DC, 20590.



[/FONT]​
THE TOPIC

[h=1]Laws and Regulations[/h]​

[h=2]ODOMETER FRAUD LAWS[/h]Committing odometer fraud is a crime. The Federal Government passed a law that requires a written disclosure of the mileage registered on an odometer be provided on the title by the seller to the purchaser when the ownership of a vehicle is transferred. If the odometer mileage is incorrect, the law requires a statement to that effect to be furnished on the title to the buyer. However, vehicles 10 years old and older are exempt from the written disclosure requirements.

[h=2]DIGITAL ODOMETERS[/h]Digital odometers that have been tampered with are even harder to detect than traditional mechanical odometers (since they have no visible moving parts). A vehicle’s condition and a detailed history report are the best clues a buyer has for determining whether clocking has occurred.





NHTSA IN ACTION

[h=1]NHTSA is dedicated to promoting the safe use and manufacture of vehicle equipment[/h]​

Members of the Office of Odometer Fraud Investigations work to increase public awareness through informative presentations and speeches about the office, its programs, and its relationship with other agencies regarding odometer fraud. These presentations are given to affected groups, including industry members, consumer advocates, and Federal, State, and local agencies. The Office of Odometer Fraud Investigations also works to protect consumers from odometer fraud by specifically assisting consumers with criminal investigations, consumer outreach programs, and public awareness:

  • Criminal Investigations: Each office conducts odometer fraud investigations for criminal prosecution by the U.S. Department of Justice. Our investigators also assist State agencies that enforce odometer laws and regulations. Office investigations resulted in more than 240 criminal convictions in more than 30 States. Prison sentences ranged from one month to eight years, criminal fines totaled more than $2.8 million, and court-ordered restitutions totaled more than $10 million.
  • Consumer Outreach Programs: This program provides assistance to consumers who suspect that they have been victimized by odometer fraud and responds to general inquiries and specific questions related to odometer fraud violations. Consumers are provided with information on odometer laws and odometer disclosure requirements if they suspect fraudulent odometer tampering. Consumers are strongly advised to consult a private attorney to determine their legal rights and remedies in the matter. Although we do not have the authority to pursue claims on behalf of consumers, we appreciate any information we receive that may aid our overall law enforcement efforts. To provide information, consumers may call NHTSA’s Vehicle Safety Hotline at 888-327-4236 (TTY for individuals with hearing impairments: 800-424-9153).
  • Federal/State Partnership: This partnership helps cultivate States’ interest in odometer enforcement by providing the following:
    • Financial Assistance: An essential part of the partnership is generating interest in the enforcement of odometer fraud by providing financial assistance through the Cooperative Reimbursable Agreement. This agreement was implemented to provide Federal assistance to selected State agencies in support of their odometer fraud investigations and prosecutions. Those State agencies that have authority to enforce Federal and/or State odometer laws and regulations qualify for the one-year $30,000 Reimbursable Agreement. The Cooperative Agreement process begins Oct. 1 of each year (the start of the Federal Government’s fiscal year).
    • Training and Education: By request, the office staff members will conduct training on how to identify fraudulent documents and how to identify and investigate odometer fraud cases.
    • Investigative Assistance: The investigators assist State agencies with their investigations that may result in referral for Federal prosecution by the U.S. Department of Justice.



 
Last edited:
   #31  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
30,485
Reaction score
21,740
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
Yes Uwe, however, it must be disclosed.
I did say that, didn't I?

So if a cluster is installed that has the wrong mileage on it, that's OK, but the fact that this has been done must be disclosed at the time the vehicle is sold. Disclosure can be in the form or "The correct mileage is X" or "The correct mileage is unknown".
:)

-Uwe-
 
   #32  

Dunwood

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
21
Reaction score
18
Location
CA, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=370890
Paperwork scanned and sent. Moving forward, we can reduce the conspiracy theories to a dull roar.....
Jack is doing this by the book, totally get it. He has a business to protect, and some crazy state's attorney could get wonky if Jack didn't have his ducks in a row.
I get it. Remember if you wing it, you get "wing it" results.

(I got a day job, as the OP, I sometimes can't respond quickly). For the rest of the audience following this saga,
thank you for your patience: standby to standby
 
   #33  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,711
Reaction score
8,807
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
To look at this is whatever you want it to be for certified donation plus $50 USD freight!

An email ha been dispatched with request for other information you made on phone in addition to direct answer of your question about your ECU software level & kids documents.

Yes your ECU belongs at the firmware level as per the RTFB 06A-906-032DL 0007

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AWW.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 032 DL
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0006
Coding: 07500
Shop #: WSC 22110
VCID: 6B83C6759A904E6F0C5-5184

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[FONT=&quot]YOUR REQUESTED ANSWER ABOUT YOUR FIRMWARE LEVEL COMPARED TO SCAN![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]AS PER RTFB : WWW.ERWIN.VW.COM

https://literature.vw.com/calibration_lookup.asp[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]06A906032DL 06A906032DL 0007 01-09-10 TSB/TPI 2010348 SVM 3061[/FONT]






 
   #35  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,711
Reaction score
8,807
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Code:
Saturday,09,November,2019,11:56:22:23141
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 19.6.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20190930 DS308.0
www.Ross-Tech.com




VIN: VWZ7Z0A3253560XXX   License Plate: 






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 01: Engine       Labels: 06A-906-032-AWW.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 06A 906 032 DL
  Component and/or Version: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0007
           Software Coding: 07500
            Work Shop Code: WSC 03738  
                      VCID: 6BDE358C19DF951762-5120

No fault code found.



Readiness: 0110 1101


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Adaptation Channel 091:
Stored value 4

NEW VALUE AFTER LOGIN & SAVE 01 :)



     
     
     
     




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 01: Engine  (06A 906 032 DL)


11:57:49 Group 060: Speed Regulation (Basic Setting: Throttle Body Adaptation)
  0.0 %  Throttle Drive Angle Sensor 1
  0.0 %  Throttle Drive Angle Sensor 2
  0  Learn Step Counter
  ADP. O.K.  Result Throttle Valve Adp.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 01: Engine  (06A 906 032 DL)


11:58:12 Group 125: CAN-Databus Communication (Powertrain)
     Transmission 
  ABS 1  Brake Electronics 
  Instruments 1  Instrument Cluster 
     A/C Electronics 
Saturday,09,November,2019,12:06:04:23141
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 19.6.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20190930 DS308.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


Workshop Code: 666 03738 038140








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Readiness Status: 0110 1101
Exhaust Gas Recirculation: Passed
Oxygen Sensor Heating: Failed or Incomplete
Oxygen Sensor(s): Failed or Incomplete
Air Conditioning: Passed
Secondary Air Injection: Failed or Incomplete
Evaporative Emissions: Failed or Incomplete
Catalyst Heating: Passed
Catalytic Converter(s): Failed or Incomplete






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 17: Instruments       Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 1J0 920 905 J
  Component and/or Version: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V53 
           Software Coding: 07232
            Work Shop Code: WSC 03738  
           Additional Info: IMMO-IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0A3253560       
                      VCID: 2E58FC98EA4D203F05-513C


No fault code found.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 17: Instruments  (1J0 920 905 J)


12:07:15 Group 002: General
  0 km  Odometer 
  0.0 l  Fuel Level 
  510 ohms  Fuel Sender Resistance
     Ambient Temperature


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 17: Instruments  (1J0 920 905 J)


12:07:35 Group 022: Immobilizer I
   1  Engine Start permitted
   1  Engine (ECU) responds
   1  Key Status 
   2  Number of adapted Keys


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 17: Instruments  (1J0 920 905 J)


12:07:43 Group 023: Immobilizer II
   1  Variable Code authorized
   1  Key Status (Transponder)
   1  Fixed Code authorized
  N/A  Immobilizer Status


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Address 19,6N0 909 901 ,recoded (Short coding),from,00006,to,00006,(03738/---/-----),


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 19: CAN Gateway       Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 6N0 909 901 
  Component and/or Version: Gateway K<->CAN    0001
           Software Coding: 00006
            Work Shop Code: WSC 03738  
                      VCID: 70E422E033F976CF57-513C


No fault code found.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




                Address 19: CAN Gateway  (6N0 909 901 )


12:10:00 Group 125: CAN-Databus Powertrain (Communication)
  Engine 1  Engine Electronics 
     Transmission Electronics
  ABS 1  Brake Electronics (J104)
  N/A  Instrument Cluster (J285)
 
   #36  

Dunwood

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
21
Reaction score
18
Location
CA, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=370890
Latest scan from running vehicle:
(The immoblizer has been deleted/defeated; will I still need to adapt my existing two keys to get rid of the 01176 Unathorized key fault?)

Code:
Saturday,16,November,2019,12:01:26:23523
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 19.6.2.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4508.4
Data version: 20190930 DS308.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 3VWSD69M81M169829   License Plate: 
Mileage: 40km-24mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 9M - VW Jetta IV (1998 > 2014)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57
          75 76
 
   Mileage: 40km-24miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AWW.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 DL
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0007  
   Coding: 07500
   Shop #: WSC 66565  
   VCID: 6B83C6759A904E6F0C5-5184

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 D
   Component: ASR FRONT MK60      0103  
   Coding: 0018945
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2B0306755F108E6F4C5-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 6Q0 909 605 F
   Component: 04 AIRBAG VW6  0202 0004  
   Coding: 12340
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 3A2D3331A54A27E7C73-4B3C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 920 905 J
   Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V53   
   Coding: 07232
   Shop #: WSC 00222  
   VCID: 2E050F616902FB476BB-5184

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
   Component: IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0A3253560         
   IMMO-IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0A3253560       

1 Fault Found:
01176 - Key 
            65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 03738  
   VCID: 70B9D119B3B6ADB7397-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
   Component: 61 Zentral-SG Komf. 0001  
   Coding: 04096
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 065597C1A1329307F3B-4B1E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J1959801C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. FS0002r  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J1959802D
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. BF0002r  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1J4959811C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. HL0002r  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1J4959812C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. HR0002r  

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
   Part No: 1JM 035 157 A
   Component:  Radio DE2         0005  
   Coding: 02043
   Shop #: WSC 22503  
   VCID: 3E253F21B9620BC7FBB-51F2

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 05:17, VBatt start/end: 12.5V/12.5V)-----------
 
   #38  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,711
Reaction score
8,807
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Just cut keys and turn locks from here out sir and be sure remotes are correct for central locking.

You could in theory buy new flip keys, marry remotes or just cases, and move the blanks and transfer the old high security keys + boards etc. and you are done.

Going forward ignore key coil or unauthorized key DTC's or if that worried marry them and than no DTC's..............
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
Top