01 MK4 Jetta 1.8T Immobilizer (first time poster....)

   #1  

Dunwood

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2001 MK4 Jetta 1.8T. Manual trans. California vehicle, not a rust bucket. 125K miles. Immobilizer initiated.
Vehicle condition: extensive service and upkeep, 4K miles ago.
New windshield 4 weeks ago. Car wash today (2nd or 3rd wash).
This was abrupt, never had these symptoms.

1/2 hour after car wash, vehicle went into immobilization mode while attempting to start from warm condition. Two avail factory keys, neither solve problem.
While key is in switch and turned on [car is dead cold at this point]: fans are running full speed, tach and speedo are pegged, immobilization yellow light is on or flashing.
The mileage changed to KM and odometer significantly reduced.

STEPS: Like a dummy I should have grabbed my VCDS and scanned it first. Instead I disconnected the battery terminals (both) and shorted them together for 15 minutes. No change.
Ran a scan (while the fans are humming away....). Posted scan below.

From the scan results I think I have too many intermittents. I need to check grounds. I need to check the oil level sensor wiring.
I'd like to check the ignition key coil via VCDS without digging around the wiring, but can't seem to find how to do that.
(the radio and door lock faults were existing...never mind the man behind the curtain)

Do you think I'm on the right track? Thank you in advance.

Eric

Code:
Saturday,02,November,2019,19:16:52:23523
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 19.6.2.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4508.4
Data version: 20190930 DS308.0
[url]www.Ross-Tech.com[/url]

Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
   Mileage: 69940km-43458miles (this is not correct, actual mileage is 125,010. Went wonky during immobilization). 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AWW.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 DL
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0006  
   Coding: 07500
   Shop #: WSC 22110  
   VCID: 6B83C6759A904E6F0C5-5184

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 D
   Component: ASR FRONT MK60      0103  
   Coding: 0018945
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2B0306755F108E6F4C5-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 6Q0 909 605 F
   Component: 04 AIRBAG VW6  0202 0004  
   Coding: 12340
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 3A2D3331A54A27E7C73-4B3C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: None
   Part No: 1j0 920 905 j
   Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V53   
   Coding: 10432
   Shop #: WSC 00098  
   VCID: 6E85CF61A982BB472BB-5184

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
   Component: IDENTNR: VwZ7Z0A3253560         
   IMMO-IDENTNR: VwZ7Z0A3253560       

6 Faults Found:
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error 
            00-00 - -
00562 - Sensor for Oil Level/Temperature (G266) 
            29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
01128 - Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2) 
            35-10 - - - Intermittent
01176 - Key 
            65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
01177 - Engine Control Unit 
            65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: None
   Part No: 6n0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 04102
   Shop #: WSC 08258  
   VCID: 1079B199D376CDB7597-5184

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01309 - Power Steering Control Module (J500) 
            49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
   Component: 61 Zentral-SG Komf. 0001  
   Coding: 04096
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 065597C1A1329307F3B-4B1E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J1959801C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. FS0002r  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J1959802D
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. BF0002B  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1J4959811C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. HL0002r  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1J4959812C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. HR0002r  

1 Fault Found:
01358 - Internal Central Locking Switch; Driver Side (E150) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
   Part No: 1JM 035 157 A
   Component:  Radio DE2         0005  
   Coding: 02043
   Shop #: WSC 22503  
   VCID: 3E253F21B9620BC7FBB-51F2

1 Fault Found:
00856 - Radio Antenna 
            36-10 - Open Circuit - Intermittent

End----(Elapsed Time: 05:12, VBatt start/end: 11.7V/11.7V. VIgn 11.7V)-----
 
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   #2  

Jack@European_Parts

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Hello & welcome to the VCDS Forum OP!

Sounds like after using the alleged, wink wink nudge nudge car wash or unapproved tool to read or even rewrite the instrument cluster has been corrupted in the cluster eeprom with a byte offset and your or someone's poor attention to details huh?

Don't lie to me or this forum it doesn't instill trust and next time use the CAPS Key okay?

NostraJackASS has Spoken a series of Questions!

Did you JPPSG yet?
 
   #3  

Dunwood

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Jack,
I've read enough of your posts to enjoy your sometimes gentle humor and other times your Captain Obvious persona (and quite clever).
I'm reading between the lines on your reply and honestly I tried to present my post with as much information as possible. (Costco car @ $7.99, but fiercly crowded on weekends).

Unapproved tool? Um...no.
I don't understand the CAPS key reference, I don't type with CAPS on. (that was a bit cyrptic even from you).
What is JPPSG?

Based on the VCDS report, please enlighten me and the other readers what the 'ole crystal ball says.
This isn't sounding too good.

Thank you.
 
   #5  

Jack@European_Parts

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Indeed JPPSG and especially for FOD!


Address 17: Instruments Labels: None
Part No: 1j0 920 905 j
Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V53
Coding: 10432
Shop #: WSC 00098
VCID: 6E85CF61A982BB472BB-5184
Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
Component: IDENTNR: VwZ7Z0A3253560
IMMO-IDENTNR: VwZ7Z0A3253560
How did you marry keys & did you check ignition switch or load reduction relays!
How are ground or battery connections since maybe got wet from car wash that contains soap conductive properties?

Why have you not addressed the D2 first in WD?
 
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   #6  

Uwe

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Looks to my like the cluster has lost some of its marbles.

-Uwe-
 
   #7  

Dunwood

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The keys (2) have not been re-marry'd to the vehicle since we have owned it; purchased @ 70K.
The ground and battery connections have in the past been excellant, a result of having a CA vehicle; however I'll review them again.
(I think the car wash was simply coincidental, I drove it about 2 miles and parked it prior to the incident. I only mentioned it from the numerous online posts from mechanics who complain about customers not giving them the entire story).
Will review the D2 and load reduction relays. After your flagging of WSC, it is perhaps possible this vehicle has prior history of "poking" around in the
Instrument panel (and different shop codes). I have a prior VCDS log from June that may be helpful?

You have given me some hope. Thank you.
 
   #8  

Jack@European_Parts

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Yes please post those old scans they maybe helpful, right?

You could always check the the D2 coil and or replace faulty cluster or rewrite the binary proper by doing some math and lock the CAPS key?

Or

There is Immobilizer Solutions defeat?
There is absolutely tampering by someone at sometime!
 
   #9  

Dunwood

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When the vehicle was purchased, most of the service was done by the local VW dealer and I did verify the service records.
Been a couple of repairs in the Bay Area, when my son was attending school (O2 sensors, fuel pump, std service).
Vehicle has been problem free since I performed and completed all the "deferred maintanence" starting in January.
Log from 122K. I fixed the below mis-fires (installed one of the check valves backwards....)
(other than a bad cat which i have yet to fix).

Code:
Monday,12,August,2019,18:54:33:23523
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 19.6.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4508.4
Data version: 20190529 DS308.0
[url]www.Ross-Tech.com[/url]

Chassis Type: 9M - VW Jetta IV (1998 > 2014)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57
          75 76
 
   Mileage: 196560km-122136miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-AWW.lbl
   Part No: 06A 906 032 DL
   Component: 1.8L R4/5VT     G   0006  
   Coding: 07500
   Shop #: WSC 22110  
   VCID: 6B83C6759A904E6F0FB-5184

7 Faults Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
            P0300 - 35-00 - 
16685 - Cylinder 1 
            P0301 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
16686 - Cylinder 2 
            P0302 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
17608 - Boost Pressure Control Valve (N249) 
            P1200 - 35-10 - Mechanical Malfunction - Intermittent
17584 - Bank1: O2 (Lambda) Correction Behind Catalyst 
            P1176 - 35-00 - Control Limit Reached
16687 - Cylinder 3 
            P0303 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
16688 - Cylinder 4 
            P0304 - 35-00 - Misfire Detected
Readiness: 0000 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 D
   Component: ASR FRONT MK60      0103  
   Coding: 0018945
   Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
   VCID: 2B0306755F108E6F4FB-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 6Q0 909 605 F
   Component: 04 AIRBAG VW6  0202 0004  
   Coding: 12340
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 3A2D3331A54A27E7C4D-4B3C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 920 905 J
   Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V53   
   Coding: 07232
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 2E050F616902FB47685-5184

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
   Component: IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0A3253560         
   IMMO-IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0A3253560       

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 70B9D119B3B6ADB73A9-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1J0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 959 799 AJ
   Component: 61 Zentral-SG Komf. 0001  
   Coding: 04096
   Shop #: WSC 00066  
   VCID: 065597C1A1329307F05-4B1E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1J1959801C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. FS0002r  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1J1959802D
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. BF0002r  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1J4959811C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. HL0002r  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1J4959812C
   Component: 61 Tõrsteuerger. HR0002r  

1 Fault Found:
00912 - Window Regulator Switch; Front Left (E40) 
            27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
   Part No: 1JM 035 157 A
   Component:  Radio DE2         0005  
   Coding: 02043
   Shop #: WSC 22503  
   VCID: 3E253F21B9620BC7F85-51F2

1 Fault Found:
00856 - Radio Antenna 
            36-00 - Open Circuit

End----------(Elapsed Time: 05:21, VBatt start/end: 12.6V/12.6V)-----------
 
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   #10  

Jack@European_Parts

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Well this confirms my suspicions, someone has tampered sir.

Thanks for playing & let me know when you are ready to tell the rest of the back story, okay?



BEFORE
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 905 J
Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V53
Coding: 07232
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 2E050F616902FB47685-5184

Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
Component: IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0A3253560
IMMO-IDENTNR: VWZ7Z0A3253560

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 70B9D119B3B6ADB73A9-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AFTER
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: None
Part No: 1j0 920 905 j
Component: A4-KOMBIINSTR. VDO V53
Coding: 10432
Shop #: WSC 00098
VCID: 6E85CF61A982BB472BB-5184

Subsystem 1 - Part No: IMMO
Component: IDENTNR: VwZ7Z0A3253560
IMMO-IDENTNR: VwZ7Z0A3253560

6 Faults Found:
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error
00-00 - -
00562 - Sensor for Oil Level/Temperature (G266)
29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
01128 - Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2)
35-10 - - - Intermittent
01176 - Key
65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
01177 - Engine Control Unit
65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: None
Part No: 6n0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 04102
Shop #: WSC 08258
VCID: 1079B199D376CDB7597-5184

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01309 - Power Steering Control Module (J500)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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   #11  

Dunwood

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Nobody has tampered with this vehicle since I have taken it over from my kid (about Jan 2019).
I do see the "coding" and VCID numbers changed between the two months of scans.

Observation: both keys are stamped with a "W" and the Ross Tech info I could scour indicate a W key is for different immobilizer system?
I seem to recall an "F" stamp?
Any bearing?
 
   #12  

Jack@European_Parts

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Nobody has tampered with this vehicle since I have taken it over from my kid (about Jan 2019).
I do see the "coding" and VCID numbers changed between the two months of scans.

Observation: both keys are stamped with a "W" and the Ross Tech info I could scour indicate a W key is for different immobilizer system?
I seem to recall an "F" stamp?
Any bearing?
:rolleyes:

Are you bullshitting me, because otherwise you need a new or reconditioned cluster and to do an 050 swap to preserve the old keys + check D2 coil?

VCDS will be limited to an adaption & provided you have security access pins for existing and target components, did you know that?

No bearings but maybe lots of grease are needed for these components Stabilant 22A?


TEARS or LIES which is it?


You sure your kid isn't messing with you?
 
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   #13  

Jef

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I'm not saying Jack is correct, but the data ain't passing the sniff test as it were. Your cluster has crapped out and there are very suspicious signs of foul play. I would say at face value the cluster needs to be swapped out. But I suspect some jerks here can bring it back to life (Jack is said jerk). :rolleyes:

You can go with a good used cluster, but VCDS can't pull the PINs needed and VCDS can't alter (UK correct) the odometer once it has +100km on it. We have a video showing how to match up a used cluster... once you have the PINs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5_51qeEyec

I guess the cheapest thing to do right now is pull the cluster out and inspect the terminals, make sure there is no coolant back there or other surprises.
 
   #14  

Jack@European_Parts

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I'm not saying Jack is correct, but the data ain't passing the sniff test as it were.
Yeah kind of smells like the air in COW/HOG/CHICKEN SHIT country & on a 105 F degree day; with extra humidity but not raining and with a slight breeze to bring the methane wall front and center to hit you in the face to taste it?
 
   #15  

Dunwood

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Hmm, well l've been driving to Marina Del Rey today to look at a used Volvo for my daughter (been off the computer for awhile) to replace the Nissan she totaled a week ago.
Don't get me started. Wasn't in the condition as listed......

My post is All true, and it wasnt my kid who was into the car. He was going to college and has zero car inclination or knowledge or tools.
Jack, this is one of those "there ain't no conspiracy theorys here" posts. Sounds like my cluster is knackered.
AND my mileage is all "Jack" d up (insert pun). Bummer.

How come this car drove like a bat out of hell for 4,000 miles after i fixed it all up (that was just a personal outburst, not looking for color commentary) and then just took a dump...Argghh.

This is sounding like I have great looking car that will be a lengthy and extended endevour to get running. Once running the odometer won't match.
Therefore I might have a "cluster" F on my hands.

Perhaps someone can tell me this: when the immobilizer is initiated is it common for the speedo and tach to peg to the opposite side? Its as if there is a faulty ground and the little pixies are
trying to find their way through whatever path is available? AND is it common for the fans to kick on at high speed (both of them) when the immobilizer is initiated?

Jack, I know you think there is something sinister here, and from all the posts I read of yours over the years, I understand you want the audience to not be lead down a rabbit hole, there isn't anything weird.
I appreciate the feedback. Thank you, Eric
 
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   #16  

Jack@European_Parts

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Eric,

The fact lower case text has changed in scans from upper case in cluster and gateway plus coding is very suspect & because a short or byte offset would indicate garbled data.
In this case it's not that, but as if a mod was done by deliberate key strokes of eeprom in an editor and rewritten with no X-sum done and which shows a DTC for the inaccurate math in the units own stack, don't you see this?

Did you know you could install a defaulted reman or new cluster & do an 050 or with no key married and set miles with VCDS, then defeat engine immobilizer?

Did you know I offer SKC retrieved services or data transfer & adaptions that are plug and play?
In this case where suspected tampering I don't set miles and leave it to consumer to do with VCDS, indeed you could do this as per RTFB?

FYI: I only work with valid credentials, certified funds and equipment in hand to observe prepaid.

Someone has done "something" & it wasn't with VCDS or from a car wash, don't you see this?
 
   #17  

Dunwood

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(geez I just typed this whole reply and didn't hit "post quick reply").

Flame suit on.....does it matter if one of the logs was a VCDS log and the other was a copy/paste from a MS Word doc?
Maybe the formatting changed. I'm somewhat new at this VCDS thing. If you were looking at spacing, capitals and indent differences.

I'm much more comfortable wrenching than computer programming a vehicle. The electronics is not my strong suit.
I haven't looked for a reman cluster, although the thought occured to me. SKC, its an 18yo car, I was expecting the dealer to have lost those records.
I was not aware of your extra curicular computer activities, let's discuss. (isn't Angry Orchard near you? We have some out here).

Without boring the audience, the previous owner didn't do anything himself, it was all at the local VW dealer. I went over all the records and timeline.
It matched with the stated miles and service records. EXCEPT an aftermarket CV axle that I recently replaced (nice vibration and it wasn't from The Beach Boys).
And my starving student kid didn't do it either, he doesn't have the knowledge, skill or interest. He bought a 2015 Camry.

I pulled the cluster this evening. No burning smell. No frayed wires. The plastic panel in front of the cluster was a bear to remove; I don't think anyone had removed it.
The cluster appears original, and there were no paw prints on the back.

I briefly read yesterday the immobililzer could be deleted/defeated.
Be nice if the immobilizer could be deleted, one less thing to go wrong and let's face it, it already has a millenial anti-theft device (manual trans). Don't need an immobilizer.
Be nice if the odo was more realistic, the wonky thing went to 43K and change for an 18yo car.

Where do I go from here since it appears I'll be renting a vehicle for a bit?

Cheers,

Eric
 
   #18  

Jack@European_Parts

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Angry Orchard is right around the corner, like 1 minute.

Nope the discrepancies are not from a copy and paste issue and are isolated to gateway and cluster specifically.

Like I said, you can set mileage with VCDS should you buy a comporting replacement cluster.


Credentials such as drivers license and title copy plus legal forms completed will start at contact form to commence here.

https://europeanpartsemporium.com/contact/
 
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   #19  

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Flame suit on.....does it matter if one of the logs was a VCDS log and the other was a copy/paste from a MS Word doc?
Interesting. Maybe Jack could know how MS Word could change label file from "1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl" to "None". :rolleyes: :D
Checked 19.6.2 and label file is still here. Last modification 2008.

MK4 cluster is walk in a park. Hope you can solve it.
 
   #20  

Dunwood

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I just printed out the log from Aug 12th, and the one from Saturday.
Went over them and highlighted all the differences. (sorry old print guy its how I work).
I can now see all the discrepancies. What a mess.
 
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