2014 Passat 1.8l TSI rough / erratic idle related to VVT

   #1  

jrush331

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VCDS Serial number
C?ID=378046
I have a 2014 Passat 1.8l Turbo engine with 130,000kms. I am the original owner and car is completely stock
with not modifications or other work done to the engine except the recall fixes that have come out.

I have a problem with rough idle that has gotten worse over time (8-9 months started at 110,000kms).
Now it consistently idles rough after the first 30 seconds of starting. it will continue to idle very rough/ erattic
until I drive the car for 5-10 mins.acceleration and highway speeds are fine. the car idles so rough that it does
stall but starts right back up.only occasionally when it stalls will it throw a code. P0011 and P0016.
( I think these are a result of how rough and erratic the idle is. 800 - 500 RPM

After some basic trouble shooting and an intake valve cleaning with no help I bought a VCDS and here I am.

What I found is that when comparing Cam Adjustment Bank 1: Specified vs Cam Adjustment Bank1 Actual is this.

When I first start the car both are 0 deg for the first 30 seconds or so, then the specified jumps to 10 deg and the
actual jumps to 64 deg. and the erratic idle starts. If I toy with the revs the specified and actual eventually come
closer together and the idle gets better as well. During the rough idle I decided to unplug the N205 and it smoothed
out right away plug it back in and within a few seconds the rough idle starts again.

What seems to be happening is that the cam adjustment is way over shooting what the target or specified adjustment is.
After some research, my understanding is that there is a pin in the N205 that extends into a small hole in a unit that
threads into the end of the cam and controls the oil pressure / flow to a unit that turns the cam in relation to the cam
sprocket to vary the timing.

My question is this: does it make sense that the problem is the oil flow/pressure, N205 itself or the signal that the N205
is getting? My thoughts are that it isn't lack of oil because the adjustment is actually over shooting in my case and I am
actually getting too much adjustment and that unplugging the N205 I have a smooth idle. But I really do not know for certain
how this system works. Is the N205 pin usually extended and it retracts to advance the timing, or is it the reverse?

If anyone is familiar with this system and knows for certain how it operates, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks (My full autoscan is posted below)





Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: A3-VW41 (7N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 1C 25 2E 42 44 46 4F 52 56 62 72
          77

VIN: 1VWBS7A38EC062317   Mileage: 138110km-85817miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
1C-Position Sensing -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
2E-Media Player 3 -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
4F-Centr. Electr. II -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CPKA)       Labels:. 06K-907-425-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 06K 906 070 H    HW: 06K 907 425 
   Component: R4 1.8l TFS   H09 9365  
   Revision: --H09---    Serial number:               
   Coding: 001A0012242400160000
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM18TFS02006K906070H 001009
   ROD: EV_ECM18TFS02006K906070D.rod
   VCID: 2F3B133E779633CF633-807A

8 Faults Found:
15125 - Cylinder 1 
          P0301 00 [096] - Misfire Detected
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 137803 km
                    Date: 2019.08.27
                    Time: 04:51:28

                    Engine speed: 860.25 /min
                    Normed load value: 12.9 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 85 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 70 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.023 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 28
                    FAC_LAM_LIM[1]: -12.386 %
                    Time since engine start: 212.8 s
                    Engine: operating status: IS

15131 - Cylinder 3 
          P0303 00 [096] - Misfire Detected
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 137803 km
                    Date: 2019.08.27
                    Time: 04:51:28

                    Engine speed: 860.25 /min
                    Normed load value: 12.9 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 85 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 70 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.023 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 28
                    FAC_LAM_LIM[1]: -12.386 %
                    Time since engine start: 212.8 s
                    Engine: operating status: IS

15134 - Cylinder 4 
          P0304 00 [096] - Misfire Detected
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 137803 km
                    Date: 2019.08.27
                    Time: 04:51:28

                    Engine speed: 860.25 /min
                    Normed load value: 12.9 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 85 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 70 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.023 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 28
                    FAC_LAM_LIM[1]: -12.386 %
                    Time since engine start: 212.8 s
                    Engine: operating status: IS

15128 - Cylinder 2 
          P0302 00 [096] - Misfire Detected
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 137803 km
                    Date: 2019.08.27
                    Time: 04:54:43

                    Engine speed: 1234.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 11.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 85 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 74 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.199 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 28
                    FAC_LAM_LIM[1]: 28.737 %
                    Time since engine start: 408.4 s
                    Engine: operating status: PL

15137 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
          P0300 00 [096] - -
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 4
                    Mileage: 137803 km
                    Date: 2019.08.27
                    Time: 04:51:28

                    Engine speed: 860.25 /min
                    Normed load value: 12.9 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 85 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 70 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.023 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 28
                    FAC_LAM_LIM[1]: -12.386 %
                    Time since engine start: 212.8 s
                    Engine: operating status: IS

14868 - Bank 1: CMP Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28) 
          P0016 00 [104] - Incorrect Correlation
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Mileage: 137531 km
                    Date: 2019.08.24
                    Time: 01:36:14

                    Engine speed: 911.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 4.7 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 83 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 49 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 12.148 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 28
                    Engine: operating status: IS
                    STATE_LS_SAE[1]: OL_CDN
                    T_AST_SAE: 0 s
                    MAP_MES_SAE: 57 kPa
                    Lambda probe voltage: bank 1: probe 1 (broadband probe): 2.026 V
                    FAC_TPS_1_SAE: 11.328125 %
                    FUP_H_SAE: 12000.0 kPa

14870 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake) 
          P0011 00 [104] - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 12
                    Mileage: 137377 km
                    Date: 2019.08.21
                    Time: 03:38:07

                    Engine speed: 2022.75 /min
                    Normed load value: 78.0 %
                    Vehicle speed: 115 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 86 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 16 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.414 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 38
                    Engine: operating status: PL
                    CAM_VCP[IN_1]: 64.117 °
                    CAM_SP_IND_VCP[IN_1]: 30.000 °
                    T_AST_SAE: 510 s
                    Engine oil temperature: 91.0 °C
                    PWM_HLD_VCP[IN_1]: 31.903 %
                    STATE_PWM_VCP[IN_1]: pas

15270 - Camshaft Timing Adj. Bank1 (N205) 
          P1528 00 [032] - Open Circuit
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Mileage: 137959 km
                    Date: 2019.08.31
                    Time: 00:57:24

                    Engine speed: 816.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 17.6 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 58 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 48 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.042 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 38
                    Engine: operating status: IS
                    CAM_VCP[IN_1]: 0.000 °
                    CAM_SP_IND_VCP[IN_1]: 10.000 °
                    T_AST_SAE: 41 s
                    Engine oil temperature: 38.0 °C
                    PWM_HLD_VCP[IN_1]: 32.458 %
                    STATE_PWM_VCP[IN_1]: ACT

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217)       Labels:* 09G-927-749-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 09G 927 749 AN    HW: 09G 927 749 B
   Component: AISIN AG6 G3  101 3133  
   Coding: 000348
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAQ250031 002009
   ROD: EV_TCMAQ250031_002_VW31.rod
   VCID: 0557919685AA599FF9F-8050

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 BM    HW: 1K0 907 379 BM
   Component: ESP MK60EC1   H46 0164  
   Revision: 00H46001    
   Coding: C54BC0F5492800FCA30E03E592200041A0100012
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   VCID: 7EA5FE7AE0FC0A47B85-802A

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101101
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 6
                    Reset counter: 113
                    Mileage: 136047 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2013.12.29
                    Time: 20:31:01

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 32772
                    Count: 12800
                    Count: 8196
                    Count: 50944
                    Count: 5120
                    Count: 250
                    Count: 0

02214 - Tire Pressure Warning 
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100010
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Reset counter: 115
                    Mileage: 136516 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2014.01.03
                    Time: 03:00:41

             Freeze Frame:
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 32768
                    Count: 4608
                    Count: 16401
                    Count: 51013
                    Count: 0
                    Count: 1024
                    Count: 0


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels:| 5K0-907-044.clb
   Part No SW: 561 907 044 AF    HW: 561 907 044 AF
   Component: Climatronic   H03 0606  
   Revision: 00001K02    
   Coding: 0030019002
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ACClimaBHBVW411 A01001
   ROD: EV_ACClimaBHBVW411_VW41.rod
   VCID: 5BE397EE53AEFF6FFFB-800E

1 Fault Found:
9474161 - Motor for Defroster Flap 
          B1090 71 [008] - Actuator stuck
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 32
                    Reset counter: 85
                    Mileage: 134300 km
                    Date: 2019.07.20
                    Time: 11:31:19


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 1K0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 937 085 AB    HW: 5K0 937 085 AB
   Component: BCM PQ35 B+   122 0173  
   Revision: BH122001    
   Coding: EF200E1B802B2AD4088800010600044800F1A08640801D20648060000C70
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   VCID: 73B3DF4EDBBE572FC7B-8026

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 5C0 959 655 AE    HW: 5C0 959 655 AE
   Component: AirbagVW10G   014 0851  
   Serial number: 003MWM03PWJT  
   Coding: 00004D4A
   Shop #: WSC 05497 002 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 001026
   ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
   VCID: 75B7E156D54A491FE9F-8020

   Seat occupied recognition: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5C6 959 339 B    HW: 5C6 959 339 B
   Component: BF-Gewichtss.  H10 0046 
   Serial number: 6940000Y1300010M6000
   Coding: 303046

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: 
   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
   Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3572MSME1F47147EZZZ3

   Crash sensor for side airbag: front passenger side: 
   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354     HW: 5K0 959 354 
   Component: S.Sens.Beif.V  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3582MSME6F13617DZZZ3

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: driver side: 
   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 351 A    HW: 5K0 959 351 A
   Component: S.Sens.Fahr.H  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3516KSME48481729ZZZW

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: passenger side: 
   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 351 A    HW: 5K0 959 351 A
   Component: S.Sens.Beif.H  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3526KSME73751729ZZZV

   Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side: 
   Subsystem 6 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 659 A    HW: 5K0 959 659 A
   Component: F.Sens.Fahr  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3556LSME25175A29ZZZZ

   Crash sensor for front airbag: front passenger side: 
   Subsystem 7 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 659 A    HW: 5K0 959 659 A
   Component: F.Sens.Beif  H02 ---- 
   Serial number: 3566LSME18404A29ZZZX

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:| 5K0-953-569.clb
   Part No SW: 1K5 953 521 BM    HW: 5K0 953 569 AE
   Component: LENKS.MODUL   016 0140  
   Revision: FF010042    Serial number: 20131114300166
   Coding: 089A140000
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_SMLSNGVOLWSXS A01004
   ROD: EV_SMLSNGVOLWS.rod
   VCID: 79AFED66F9522D7F8D7-802C

   Multifunction steering wheel control module: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 3C8 959 537 D    HW: 3C8 959 537 D  Labels: 3C8-959-537.CLB
   Component: E221__MFL-TK6  H07 0022 
   Coding: E30000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-XXX-17.clb-SRI1
   Part No SW: 561 920 870 D    HW: 561 920 870 D
   Component: KOMBI         H04 0811  
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 331E01
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04721
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW32.rod
   VCID: 1A6DD2EA1C14C66724D-804E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 7N0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 7N0 907 530 AM    HW: 7N0 907 530 AM
   Component: J533  Gateway H55 1642  
   Revision:   H55       Serial number: 15111303000625
   Coding: 461000
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   VCID: 7BA3F76EF3EE1F6F9FB-802E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 1C: Position Sensing        Labels: 1Kx-919-xxx-1C.lbl
   Part No SW: 561 919 965     HW: 561 919 965 
   Component: Kompass         002 0001  
   Revision: 00002000    Serial number: 1829227R4JA906
   Coding: 0000002
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   VCID: 6393AF0E675EC7AFB7B-8036

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
   Component: IMMO          H04 0811  
   Serial number:               
   Coding: 000000
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03710
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09.rod
   VCID: 6A8DC22A8CF496E774D-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2E: Media Player 3
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels:| 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
   Part No SW: 561 959 701     HW: 3C0 959 793 B
   Component: TUER-SG FT    002 0525  
   Revision: 13110009    Serial number: 0007551998
   Coding: 0404F5
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGFPQ25BRFVW46X A04001
   ROD: EV_TSGFPQ25BRFVW46X.rod
   VCID: 5BE397EE53AEFF6FFFB-800E

   Slave Driver: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 561 959 811 B    HW: 561 959 811 B  Labels: 1K0-959-70X-GEN4.CLB
   Component: J388__TSG_HL  006 5470 
   Serial number: 14102630131118144336
   Coding: 800000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
   Part No: 1K0 909 144 R
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 288    3501  
   Revision: 00H22000    
   Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
   VCID: 392F2D66B552ED7FCD7-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 4F: Centr. Electr. II (J520)       Labels:. 1K0-907-532.clb
   Part No SW: 7N0 907 532     HW: 7N0 907 530 AM
   Component: EZE_2         H55 1642  
   Revision:   H55       Serial number: 15111303000625
   Coding: 01030108
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   VCID: 6FBBD33EB79673CF233-803A

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 561 959 591     HW: 561 959 591 
   Component: J245 P05 FFD7  H07 0004 
   Serial number: 53388786011324402067
   Coding: 181100

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 561 919 204 B    HW: 561 919 204 B
   Component: Analoguhr  008 0005 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels:| 3C0-959-70X-GEN4.clb
   Part No SW: 561 959 702     HW: 3C0 959 792 B
   Component: TUER-SG BT    002 0525  
   Revision: 15110009    Serial number: 0007624923
   Coding: 0404F4
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TSGBPQ25BRFVW46X A04001
   ROD: EV_TSGBPQ25BRFVW46X.rod
   VCID: 5CE194F256A0F857F61-8008

   Slave Passenger: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 561 959 812 B    HW: 561 959 812 B  Labels: 1K0-959-70X-GEN4.CLB
   Component: J389__TSG_HR  006 5470 
   Serial number: 14102631131126125243
   Coding: 800000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 035 164 F    HW: 1K0 035 164 F
   Component: LOW NAR SDARS H03 0005  
   Revision: -----07S    Serial number: VWZ4Z6N3699340
   Coding: 2100040002000B
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   VCID: 2517F11625EA799F99F-8070

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone (J412)       Labels:| 5N0-035-729.clb
   Part No SW: 5N0 035 729 A    HW: 5N0 035 729 A
   Component: TELEFON       H05 0315  
   Revision: 1B001001    Serial number: 00007665462262
   Coding: 0A10030080010110
   Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
   ASAM Dataset: EV_UHVUMI 001007
   ROD: EV_UHVUMI.rod
   VCID: 2E050E3A709C3AC7685-807A

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 01:09, VBatt start/end: 12.0V/12.0V. VIgn 12.0V)-----
 
   #2  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,366
Reaction score
8,725
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Wouldn't this be a lack of oil PSI to reach the retard set point, faulty oil regulation or the chain jumped advance and or the adjuster is faulty mechanically?

Shouldn't you perform mechanical tests and tear down to surmise the condition since you clearly have crank/can correlation DTC's?

Did you check sump for fuel contamination yet?
 
   #3  

jrush331

Verified VCDS User
Verified
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Messages
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Reaction score
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Location
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VCDS Serial number
C?ID=378046
Shouldn't you perform mechanical tests and tear down to surmise the condition since you clearly have crank/can correlation DTC's?

Did you check sump for fuel contamination yet?
If I can confirm that I have an oil supply problem I will definitely tear into the engine, but I want the diagnostics to lead me to that conclusion.

I was thinking that lack of oil PSI would prevent advancement of the timing because without the N205 I have correlation and smooth idle.

Maybe I am looking at this wrong, but my thought is that when I have a Cam adjust specified of 10 deg and an actual of 64 deg it is over advanced (Is this correct?)

If so I know that when my timing is over advanced I have the erratic idle. I also know that unplugging my N205 gives me correct (or much closer to correct) timing.) Without knowing exactly how the N205 regulates the oil pressure I have come up with a 2 scenarios for what's happening when I unplug the N205. scenario 1: with N205 unplugged, no oil pressure to adjustment valve = no advancement of timing or Scenario 2: with N205 unplugged full oil pressure to adjustment valve = fully pushes to retarded position.

With scenario 1 this could be true, but if so it wouldn't be an oil pressure problem because with the N205 plugged in I would not be able to get an over advanced condition which is causing my problem.
with scenario 2: Again with this scenario oil pressure could not be the cause because it is staying in the retarded position with N205 unplugged which would require full oil pressure.

Is there a scenario that I am missing?

If not, in my mind it is between the N205 and the signal feeding the N205.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
   #4  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,366
Reaction score
8,725
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
14868 - Bank 1: CMP Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0016 00 [104] - Incorrect Correlation
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear


14870 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake)
P0011 00 [104] - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory



If I can confirm that I have an oil supply problem I will definitely tear into the engine, but I want the diagnostics to lead me to that conclusion.



I was thinking that lack of oil PSI would prevent advancement of the timing because without the N205 I have correlation and smooth idle.
Do you realize you have this understood ass backward and timing starts advanced because engines require advanced timing to start cold and there is no oil PSI engine not running yet and is retarded by oil PSI after PSI is achieved?

Maybe I am looking at this wrong, but my thought is that when I have a Cam adjust specified of 10 deg and an actual of 64 deg it is over advanced (Is this correct?)
Maybe? :p

If so I know that when my timing is over advanced I have the erratic idle. I also know that unplugging my N205 gives me correct (or much closer to correct) timing.) Without knowing exactly how the N205 regulates the oil pressure I have come up with a 2 scenarios for what's happening when I unplug the N205. scenario 1: with N205 unplugged, no oil pressure to adjustment valve = no advancement of timing or Scenario 2: with N205 unplugged full oil pressure to adjustment valve = fully pushes to retarded position.

With scenario 1 this could be true, but if so it wouldn't be an oil pressure problem because with the N205 plugged in I would not be able to get an over advanced condition which is causing my problem.
with scenario 2: Again with this scenario oil pressure could not be the cause because it is staying in the retarded position with N205 unplugged which would require full oil pressure.

Is there a scenario that I am missing?

If not, in my mind it is between the N205 and the signal feeding the N205.
Wasn't this covered in aforementioned?
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Vehicle Identification No.1VWBS7A38EC062317
ModelNew Passat
PA
Date of production19.12.2013
Model year2014
Sales typeA323R6
Engine CodeCPKA
Transmission CodeNTJ

Emission standard7GJEmission standard TIER 2


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CPKA) Labels:. 06K-907-425-V2.clb
Part No SW: 06K 906 070 H HW: 06K 907 425
Component: R4 1.8l TFS H09 9365
Revision: --H09--- Serial number:
Coding: 001A0012242400160000


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:* 09G-927-749-V1.clb
Part No SW: 09G 927 749 AN HW: 09G 927 749 B
Component: AISIN AG6 G3 101 3133
 
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Thanks for taking the time to reply Jack. (and I appreciate the humor at my expense) I have read enough posts on here to know to expect this.. lol

Do you realize you have this understood ass backward and timing starts advanced because engines require advanced timing to start cold and there is no oil PSI engine not running yet and is retarded by oil PSI after PSI is achieved?
I very much realize that there is a very good chance that I have this ass backwards, that's why I gave the 2 scenarios in my second post. This was my scenario 2 above.... but why does unplugging N205 remove the over advanced condition if oil pressure is the problem like you are suggesting?

Also I read in detail a post where you and Andy disagreed on this quite some time ago when he compared to the Nissan V6 VVT. My thought process was like Andy's... https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?1719-Audi-1-8-16v-cam-timing-fault&highlight=unplug+n205
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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I very much realize that there is a very good chance that I have this ass backwards, that's why I gave the 2 scenarios in my second post. This was my scenario 2 above.... but why does unplugging N205 remove the over advanced condition if oil pressure is the problem like you are suggesting?
I believe I questioned multiple scenarios and you have not read those questions just like your existing diagnostic data, huh & in red?

Oh yeah I'm an asshole but a self help asshole, as I question you to make you think of your own self evident answers now huh?


Also I read in detail a post where you and Andy disagreed on this quite some time ago when he compared to the Nissan V6 VVT. My thought process was like Andy's... https://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...ht=unplug+n205
Don't you see the forest through the trees?

Am I wrong or am I right did you read the entire thread?

Shouldn't you know how something works versus seeking magic answers before condemning & by testing?

https://forums.ross-tech.com/showth...cam-timing-fault&p=25994&viewfull=1#post25994


Hey do cars have useful life warranty in Canada & like here, since the Canada cars almost mirror the EPA regulations in the USA?

Did you know in the USA all those repairs would be free under useful life warranty & maybe you should investigate the regulations in Canada huh?
 
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I think that I am spending more time trying to understand your innuendos and questions then trying to figure out the VVT on this vehicle. Either way my head is spinning.

If I go with what you have told me...

No oil pressure = fully advanced timing

I put that with what I already know....

N205 unplugged = car idles great and no over advanced condition

This confirms there is no oil pressure problem as it is able to go from advanced position to retarded position by unplugging N205. (which requires oil pressure to do)
This can be reversed by plugging N205 back in.
 
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I was not aware of the "useful life warranty" I will definitely research this.

I did as much research as I could find to learn how this system works, The rest I tried to figure out by conducting my own tests.

I did read the entire post and seen that you performed a test to confirm the starting in the advanced position. (My only question with that was it the same engine that
I have as I find it very difficult to find info that is not on the older 2.0l with a totally different N205 than mine.)
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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I think that I am spending more time trying to understand your innuendos and questions then trying to figure out the VVT on this vehicle. Either way my head is spinning.

If I go with what you have told me...

No oil pressure = fully advanced timing

I put that with what I already know....

N205 unplugged = car idles great and no over advanced condition

This confirms there is no oil pressure problem as it is able to go from advanced position to retarded position by unplugging N205. (which requires oil pressure to do)
This can be reversed by plugging N205 back in.


Would not oil pressure being measured as per the RTFB be a way to confirm it with Volume/PSI tests?



Did you read the RTFB & SSP for design and function?





I was not aware of the "useful life warranty" I will definitely research this.

I did as much research as I could find to learn how this system works, The rest I tried to figure out by conducting my own tests.

I did read the entire post and seen that you performed a test to confirm the starting in the advanced position. (My only question with that was it the same engine that
I have as I find it very difficult to find info that is not on the older 2.0l with a totally different N205 than mine.)

Might be a good idea to investigate & since it could possibly save you some money, no?
 
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Did you read the RTFB & SSP for design and function?
I did read this one here on the 2.0l ea888 which looks pretty much identical to mine. https://techtips.alleuro.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/vw-ccta-engine-technical-info.pdf I was not aware there was a series of these, I will be doing some more reading.

I did not read the Bentley manual, but will be looking for that now.

Would not oil pressure being measured as per the RTFB be a way to confirm it with Volume/PSI tests?
As far as testing the oil pressure, I have not done that partly because I do not have the gauge or fittings to do so. (it is not an easy check for me so I need some evidence to go down that path)

My next test will be this: Monitor voltage being supplied to the N205(with a multimeter at the connector), it should correlate with the adjustment of the timing. If I see changes in Voltage that do not produce a change in timing, I am going to replace the N205.

If the changes in voltage do correlate with changes in timing, I will cross N205 off the list of suspects and start looking at the inputs such as wiring, J271, G17,G40,G28,G70, J623.
 
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Thanks to your previous post about SSP 's I found the correct one for my engine which has a few differences regarding the variable timing and inputs.

Just reading through the logic of how the variator valve gets locked into an at rest position when the car is shut off, and is not ulocked until oil pressures reaches above 0.5 bar.

Also states that timing adjustments are not made below 1800rpm's. I'll keep reading....
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Just because someone speculates to diagnose a problem by changing parts & having a rare success here and there, doesn't mean they understand a process or how something operates!

 
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hey Jack, do you know what a bully is? (look it up)


They have them at school, in the workplace and I guess they have them in the forums as well.... not cool.
 
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hey Jack, do you know what a bully is?
OP:
I think you are confusing the definition of asshole & because indeed I can be one.

I know the definition & I don't consider myself a bully either, even though you only asked if I understood the word apparently you actually don't.

You will find that I stand my ground if I believe what I am saying is correct and if you can convince me how I am wrong, at times I can be, than I would absolutely capitulate it & even maybe change my existing programming to permit the new information learned by adaption.

Did you have something you would like to debate or need direction toward factual materials on something you don't understand?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffpost.com/entry/bullyjerkits-not-the-same_b_5940628/amp

I just want to be clear, I am here & genuinely to help people ask the right questions, to seek self evident answers by their own testing or learning process & yes, it's for free and yes at the cost of my entertainment is your expense to sometimes point you to the I hope, OEM RTFB & to do a repair that comports.

Sometimes I may come across as cryptic and yes indeed that is the case, but it is for you to surmise your own thoughts and learn, not for me to give you magic answers because there are often not one.

Just think of me like that loud fart cut and it could insult some or smell bad, but at same time make others laugh or want to vacate or others fight fire with fire & cut their own.

It's all a matter of perspective & comfort level vs a snob that is full of shit and think they are on some moral high road while their shit doesn't stink, the great news is everyone's does!
 
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My apologies if I am watering down the term bully, by using it in this situation.

But forgive me if I feel like by entering this forum and asking for help that I am walking down a high school hallway, getting pushed against the lockers because I am new, and have very little knowledge on VW's and how they operate. I am learning as I go and what I can't find answers to by reading I am trying to test myself and learn by the results that I get from the test.

My question is this: does it make sense that the problem is the oil flow/pressure, N205 itself or the signal that the N205
is getting? My thoughts are that it isn't lack of oil because the adjustment is actually over shooting in my case and I am
actually getting too much adjustment and that unplugging the N205 I have a smooth idle. But I really do not know for certain
how this system works. Is the N205 pin usually extended and it retracts to advance the timing, or is it the reverse?
I asked the above question because I needed to know how to interpret what was happening when I unplugged the N205 solenoid.

I have since learned that the pin of the N205 "is" in the retracted state when not plugged in.

I have also learned from self study programme 401 that "With the engine idling, or at revs below 1800 rpm and low load demand, the engine control unit does not energise the variable timing solenoid valve and the variator remains in the ’at rest’ position."

With the above statement I know that my system is in fact trying to energize the variable timing solenoid at idle, so that in itself is a problem. Unplugging my N205 prevents this from happening.

I now also know that the Variable The control unit uses the signals from the air mass meter G70 and from the engine revs sensor G28, as basic signals for calculating the desired advance, and the coolant temperature sensor, G62, signal as a correction signal. The Hall sensor, G40

When looking at these inputs I noticed something strange... The Coolant temperature at rad outlet Specified is -48 DegC the actual Rad outlet temp is 35 Deg C and Engine coolant temp is 85 Deg C leaving the difference between engine and Rad being 50 Deg.
 
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I asked the above question because I needed to know how to interpret what was happening when I unplugged the N205 solenoid.

I have since learned that the pin of the N205 "is" in the retracted state when not plugged in.

I have also learned from self study programme 401 that "With the engine idling, or at revs below 1800 rpm and low load demand, the engine control unit does not energise the variable timing solenoid valve and the variator remains in the Â’at restÂ’ position."

With the above statement I know that my system is in fact trying to energize the variable timing solenoid at idle, so that in itself is a problem. Unplugging my N205 prevents this from happening.

I now also know that the Variable The control unit uses the signals from the air mass meter G70 and from the engine revs sensor G28, as basic signals for calculating the desired advance, and the coolant temperature sensor, G62, signal as a correction signal. The Hall sensor, G40

When looking at these inputs I noticed something strange... The Coolant temperature at rad outlet Specified is -48 DegC the actual Rad outlet temp is 35 Deg C and Engine coolant temp is 85 Deg C leaving the difference between engine and Rad being 50 Deg
.


Why do you persist in aforementioned to try to dismiss the information the scan has already presented and follow up on it as per the RTFB with this lack of focus?

Why would you think this data will mean anything when the car is clearly mechanically impaired?

I'm going to FART now okay? :rolleyes:

You really don't believe just because of a result from unplugging a control solenoid is a means of a diagnosis do you, don't you see the fault with this thought process?

Wouldn't it be wise to verify first if you have any useful life warranty & if not then tear down the engine before damage is done by actual inspection, and mechanical's measured and most important checking basics such as static timing chain timing, you know because you have DTC's that indicate it?

You are only going to suffer at the cost of expense for failing to engage a process tree, no?

I'm going to say this figurative, here is a hug and now I'm going to kick you in your ass as a friend not a bully & for you to get your head out of your ass, see?



 
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jrush331

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Wouldn't it be wise to verify first if you have any useful life warranty first
Checked into this and do not.

tear down the engine before damage is done by actually inspection, and mechanicals measured and most important checking basics such as static timing chain timing, you know because you have DTC's that indicate it?
Since you have much, much, much more experience with VW engines than I do, I am assuming that from looking at my auto scan you see something that almost always is a mechanical issue.... regardless of what I am seeing with sensor values etc from VCDS.

I am just looking for an explanation of why the engine runs fine when the N205 is not able to be energized

or why when it is plugged in it is trying to be energized below 1800rpm... that does not seem mechanical.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Checked into this and do not.
With who, how & in writing?

You sure?
https://pollution-waste.canada.ca/environmental-protection-registry/regulations/view?Id=127
Regulations Amending the On-Road Vehicle and Engine Emission Regulations and Other Regulations Made Under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999 (SOR/2015-186)

Since you have much, much, much more experience with VW engines than I do, I am assuming that from looking at my auto scan you see something that almost always is a mechanical issue.... regardless of what I am seeing with sensor values etc from VCDS.

I am just looking for an explanation of why the engine runs fine when the N205 is not able to be energized

or why when it is plugged in it is trying to be energized below 1800rpm... that does not seem mechanical.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/16400/P0016/000022

Don't TSI engines run more smooth when timing is retarded at idle whether from a jumped chain timing or faulty adjuster/pin or thinned oil from gas contamination & permitting adjuster to remain advanced and causes oil port screen damage, bridge loss of PSI or pin failure?

Are you sure you are interpreting logs correctly and if a pin/adjuster etc was damaged and permitting an unlock as a result of the aforementioned questioned possible data, could the ECU be trying to hit a target it just can't make due to mechanical defect by adaptation tables never reached or over corrected, hence a DTC?

Could unplugging an adjuster & which is being energized by said aforementioned potential adaption deviation permit oil PSI to push adjuster back regardless of pin locking and smooth the idle?

All hypothetical but you could just test each item rather than waste time with bullshit, might as well get out the spirit OBD2 board with MIL enhancement plugin, no?




https://www.canada.ca/en/environmen...le-engine-emission-regulations-questions.html

Amendments to On-road Vehicle and Engine Emission Regulations: frequently asked questions


Regulations Amending the On-Road Vehicle and Engine Emission Regulations and Other Regulations Made Under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999

  1. What is the purpose of these regulations?
  2. What are the key elements of these regulations?
  3. How do these regulations affect Canadian businesses?
  4. What is the timeline for implementation?
  5. Where can I get more information?

1. What is the purpose of these regulations?
The operation of vehicles is a significant source of smog-forming air pollutants in Canada. Smog has been identified as a contributing factor in numerous adverse impacts on the health of Canadians including thousands of premature deaths across the country each year, increased hospital visits, as well as lost work and school days. Environmental problems attributed to smog include effects on vegetation, structures, visibility and haze.
The parent regulations: On-Road Vehicle and Engine Emission Regulations, establish emission standards for on-road vehicles including passenger cars, light trucks, motorcycles and heavy-duty vehicles. These amendments, the Regulations Amending the On-Road Vehicle and Engine Emission Regulations and Other Regulations Made Under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999 further strengthen Canada’s smog-forming emission standards for passenger cars, light trucks and some heavy-duty vehicles. These more stringent standards are commonly referred to as ‘Tier 3’ emission standards.

2. What are the key elements of these regulations?
The Regulations Amending the On-Road Vehicle and Engine Emission Regulations and Other Regulations Made Under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999 introduce more stringent air pollutant emission standards for new passenger cars, light trucks and some heavy duty vehicles in alignment with the United States Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA). Key elements include:

  • Tighter ‘Tier 3’ emission standards start being phased-in with the 2017 model year and will be fully implemented by 2025:
    • standards up to 80% and 70% more stringent for volatile organic compounds (VOCs)/nitrogen oxyde (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) respectively, compared to Tier 2 standards
    • more stringent evaporative emission standards
  • A system for generating, banking and trading emission credits, including the possibility of earning early credits beginning in the 2015 model year.
  • Increased time during which a vehicle must comply with the standards (i.e. a vehicle’s useful life) from 10 years or 192,000 kilometers to 15 years or 240,000 kilometers.
  • Changes to improve the administration of the parent regulations and other regulations that cover the same vehicle classes including: simplifying the requirements regarding information to be submitted for vehicles imported into Canada and provisions for the submission of reports electronically.

3. How do these regulations affect Canadian businesses?
Persons, companies or businesses that have to conform to the parent regulations and amendments are those who:

  • manufacture on-road vehicles or engines in Canada;
  • import on-road vehicles or engines into Canada for purpose of sale;
  • import on-road vehicles or engines into Canada for their own use.

4. What is the timeline for implementation?
The amendments, made under the authority of the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999, came into force on July 16, 2015.
The more stringent air pollutant emission standards for new cars, light-duty trucks and certain heavy-duty vehicles will be phased-in beginning with the 2017 model year and be fully implemented by 2025. However, vehicles from earlier model years are still regulated by the parent regulations.

5. Where can I get more information?
The following links provide additional information and guidance on the parent regulations and these amendments:

For more information and to receive email notifications of updates regarding actions on vehicles, please contact us at: ec.infovehiculeetmoteur-vehicleandengineinfo.ec@canada.ca

For more information

To learn about upcoming or ongoing consultations on proposed federal regulations, visit the Canada Gazette and consulting with Canadians websites.


3.1 Vehicles Covered by an EPA Certificate and Sold Concurrently in Canada and in the United States (Section 35)
https://www.canada.ca/en/environmen...s-evidence-conformity-vehicles/chapter-3.html

Oh very interesting stuff here?

See man, we're learning stuff together? :rolleyes:
 
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