The Data Battle

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Mike R

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Reading the "Right to repair" blurb, I thought it was something completely different for us here at RT.

I can't say how this legally comes into play here in the states, however I do find it morally objectionable for vehicle manufacturers to block off the car owners from being able to retrieve their own data. This effects repair shops as much as the diagnostic tool providers.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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I been ranting about this crap for 20 years already, did the music stop yet?
With WiFi and the cars going virtually hot to a bootstrap, it will be interesting with what some asshole does with self writing dynamic code huh?
 
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Bruce

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I have been talking on and off about this since 2007. The fact that by 2021 most cars sold will have GSM capability to send data back to mama is pretty much a given. The battle for who owns that data and how that data can be used is the crux of the matter. When you drive every morning to Dunkin to get your coffee, mama car manufacturer will have a record of that. The car mfgs see big profit from selling such to advertisers - billions of free dollars to them...

Mind you, our phones do this now through Google and other apps... I have to believe the phone data will be part of the OEs case for the data being free for them to exploit... and I bet that new car sales contracts have already been written to give them permission to collect said data.
 
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Mike@Gendan

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Mind you, our phones do this now through Google and other apps... I have to believe the phone data will be part of the OEs case for the data being free for them to exploit... and I bet that new car sales contracts have already been written to give them permission to collect said data.
With phones you have the option to turn location services and location history off (although there's not much you can do to stop them seeing which cell tower you're pinging off, short of airplane mode or turning the thing off).
To use that argument you'd think there would have to be a similar location sharing setting you can disable?
 
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Bruce

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I think none of us know how this plays out across the world. This is just the first layer of making all users of these new vehicles aware that mama OE is watching.

How long will it be before government says, "Hey OE, we want to know where Harry goes... give us the data."

Sure, having the ability to turn off the location info as an option might mitigate the collection wariness that customers have but this goes beyond that to the repair information that mama OE is going to sell to the repair shops... If the OEs get their way, they will collect the data and for a fee, the aftermarket repair shop will get access to the customer specific car specific diagnostic information they have collected. Will the fees be reasonable? What will the display tool be? Will it be a custom tool for each OE? My guess is a fee based web portal will be set up for the OE access by a repair shop to their customer vehicle information. The aftermarket will scream and holler until such a compromise is worked out as was done with "Right to Repair."

I think this new world in which we live will challenge us in many ways - not just with this data. I think the information collected on each of us is huge already and it is just going to increase. I also do not think we can avoid it. We like the conveniences that these electronic means give but do we really realize how much info is collected?
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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I think none of us know how this plays out across the world. This is just the first layer of making all users of these new vehicles aware that mama OE is watching.

Here is your ECM solution.........

Cameras are still going to get ya though........



 
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Jack@European_Parts

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But Jack, what if all those tracking are required for EMISSIONS certifications? Would you then be recommending defeat devices?

If it was for the exclusivity for emissions/safety devices/licensed repair shops & that the owner authorizes or the do it yourself owners & affirmed too in writing or e-record with proper agencies including making cars for competition to encourage innovation & to be doing their own repairs or mods, sure & that is to be checked to be a comporting repair signed off on like logs in planes using good engineering judgement & if this information was only reported to CARB/EPA & NHTSA + DMV in each state, than I guess I would, however, if the data was used or found to be used to do marketing & or illegal activity, that regulation should be written & so that if you do that, there are some serious, " non discretionary penalties " and for anyone linked too it or made use of such data by any type of enrichment it should be forfeited with treble damages to the "owner of each vehicle" for breach of such privacy, right?

See I don't get it, people complain about this shit but than when it comes to erecting or doing repairs or mods in a house or land real property, there are laws for this usually & a ton of bullshit & sometimes justifiably, you wouldn't want to dig a gas line "very illegal stiff penalties" & after what I have seen even licensed contractors do, however, the car is on the public highway and can crash into someone else, so WTF, how is that?

I am amazed that cars are only at the point of where they are for regulation!
 
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Uwe

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If it was for the exclusivity for emissions/safety devices/licensed repair shops & that the owner authorizes or the do it yourself owners & affirmed too in writing or e-record with proper agencies including making cars for competition to encourage innovation & to be doing their own repairs or mods, sure & that is to be checked to be a comporting repair signed off on like logs in planes using good engineering judgement & if this information was only reported to CARB/EPA & NHTSA + DMV in each state, than I guess I would, however, if the data was used or found to be used to do marketing & or illegal activity, that regulation should be written & so that if you do that, there are some serious, " non discretionary penalties " and for anyone linked too it or made use of such data by any type of enrichment it should be forfeited with treble damages to the "owner of each vehicle" for breach of such privacy, right?
Holy run-on sentence, Batman! That makes it really hard to understand what you're trying to say. ;)

-Uwe-
 
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D-Dub

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people (do/should) have the right/wherewithall to modify anything they own as they see fit.

that cuts both ways, because people can modify anything with the intent to do harm as they can to do good.

most laws are stupid and for the stupid.

because give a monkey a stick, and sooner or later a monkey will beat some one or some thing with that stick.

just about anything can be used for good or ill, cars, guns, butter knives, spoons, zip files, torrents, porn, intentions, the act of speaking, even protecting someone or something can be good or bad.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Holy run-on sentence, Batman! That makes it really hard to understand what you're trying to say. ;)

-Uwe-
Trust me even I don't understand those questions...........

People should be able to do whatever the hell they want & as long as it doesn't hurt someone else or intentionally!
 
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