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[stefdds]

I realize its old news here on the forum, but perhaps those folks "passing through" here will take note!

 

[stefdds]

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

The GT2 RS is my dream vehicle.....
Mad respect for everything seen in the video.... mind=blown

 

[stefdds]

Here's one for Uwe,

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1148910554932572902/

 

[stefdds]

 

[stefdds]

 

[davisev5225]

I saw that one yesterday, and there's just so many inaccuracies leading to his conclusion. You can find soldered wire connections in airplanes, in NASA vehicles, etc. Additionally, every circuit board is soldered, LOL.

There's nothing wrong with solder; in fact, it's preferred where corrosion is a concern since soldered connections don't wick moisture and therefore can't corrode.

 

[Uwe]

You can find soldered wire connections in airplanes, in NASA vehicles, etc. Additionally, every circuit board is soldered, LOL.

He covered circuit boards. That's not a wire-to-wire or even wire-to-lug connection.

IMO, the biggest problem is vibration. If you solder stranded wire, solder will wick into the wire, and however far the solder has wicked to will be brittle. Any flex or vibration in that region is asking for a failure eventually.

Have I soldered wire connections? Yes. When I do so, I make darn sure that that any portion that solder might have wicked into is not subject to flex or vibration.

Back in the late 1990s, I built a big "UPS" with four L16 sized 6V batteries in series and a 3.6 kW inverter/charger. At max output, the DC side of that could be pulling in excess of 150A and had a 250 circuit breaker. I did the DC wiring with 4/0 welding cable and crimp lugs, but I wasn't satisfied with the crimp tool I had access to so I soldered them after crimping for good measure. Needless to say, there was a torch involved. It all worked fine for 25 years, but there was zero source of vibration and it was all indoors, with minimal temperature changes.

Around 1990, I owned a small airplane, a 1966 Aero Commander Model 100 "Darter". It came with the original radio, which was very long in the tooth and obsolete. So I bought a new radio, but of course being an airplane, the installation needed to be signed off on by an A&P / avionics guy and we had a pretty good one at the local field that I flew out of. I discussed my plans with him. He was adamant: No solder! The FAA standards did not allow for that. All the connections between the plane's harness and the radio's connectors were required to be crimped, otherwise he would not be able to sign off on my installation.

-Uwe-

 

[davisev5225]

He was adamant: No solder! The FAA standards did not allow for that. All the connections between the plane's harness and the radio's connectors were required to be crimped, otherwise he would not be able to sign off on my installation.

Yeah, but that's not a vibration concern, that's a quality concern. It's easy to do a bad solder job, it's hard(er) to do it right, and it's difficult to verify that a solder joint has been made solidly, whereas a crimped connection is relatively easy to inspect, especially with newer standards & tooling that actually stamp the die size onto the crimp to verify you used the correct die for the connection.

Solder joints have been used in automotive for literal decades, and aren't known for failing. Cars arguably vibrate more over their lifetime than airplanes do. The only place you really have to worry about the connection being brittle is if you fix a connection somewhere that's subject to bending or flexing - vibration isn't going to kill a proper solder joint. We're talking places like door harnesses, service bends in the engine bay harnesses, etc.

I prefer solder because it's cheap, easy to do right, and easy to get all the needed materials. Crimp connections are more expensive, it's sometimes difficult to get the crimping tool into tight spaces, and I've seen more than my share of chinesium crimp connectors that aren't worth a damn. I'll stick with what I know results in a quality, long-lasting repair, thanks. I also don't work on airplanes, so I don't have to worry about a bureaucracy that likes making everything ridiculously expensive because they like having reams of paper trails...

 

[Uwe]

Yeah, but that's not a vibration concern, that's a quality concern.

He expressed it as a vibration concern.

Cars arguably vibrate more over their lifetime than airplanes do.

Uhm... Try a 320 cubic inch 4-cylinder Lycoming engine sometime and tell me that.

It's easy to do a bad solder job,

I prefer solder because it's cheap, easy to do right,

Having it both ways are we?

I've seen more than my share of chinesium crimp connectors that aren't worth a damn.

True! Speaking of which:

-Uwe-

 

[stefdds]

 

[davisev5225]

=Having it both ways are we?

Not at all. It's almost always easy to do something wrong, that's rarely untrue. It's also relatively easy to do a solder job the right way.

Perhaps I didn't choose my words wisely, but both statements can be and are true.

 

[The WolfMan]

VCDS is focused on cars from Volkswagen Group. Have you read the service manuals available in Erwin? If so, you should know that soldering wires is not allowed. Wires are crimped and the “repair extensions” are yellow !

 

[Uwe]

Have you read the service manuals available in Erwin? If so, you should know that soldering wires is not allowed.

Right, that is VW's official position with respect to wiring repairs.

However, they don't own my cars, so they don't get to tell me what I'm "allowed" to do.

-Uwe-

 

[Eric]

I've been reminded of that position somewhat recently on the Alltrack when they tried to void warranty on the turbo (bad actuator) for a wire repair going to the DV. That was quite the fight.

 

[The WolfMan]

Right, that is VW's official position with respect to wiring repairs.

However, they don't own my cars, so they don't get to tell me what I'm "allowed" to do.

-Uwe-

No questions about that. It’s your car, you do what you want with him, if it’s legal of course.

But these service manuals are first of all intended for dealerships right? And the work done and the procedures done in a dealership should be homogeneous in all the dealer network.

For sure that you do that with your interfaces. The final owner of a Ross-Tech interface can do what the hell he wants with it. But if I’m a Ross-Tech distributor I should do things the way Ross-Tech wants and for sure that these things are written and signed in a contract between both ends… I’m just guessing, you don’t need to reply to this

Poor reliability can hurt the image of a car manufacturer. So, I don’t think than anyone in his perfect mind would take risks impact the brands in a negative way.

Petrol inside a diesel engine? No risks taken! Pipes can be cleaned, filters replaced but injector pump, injectors and so on should also be replaced.

Damaged wires? No risks taken, ie, no soldering.

We are always learning. I have solder some wires in the past. With the technicall information provided by Volkswagen and that video, for sure that in the future I will prefer to use crimped connections instead of soldered ones.

I've been reminded of that position somewhat recently on the Alltrack when they tried to void warranty on the turbo (bad actuator) for a wire repair going to the DV. That was quite the fight.

I don’t know if things there in the States are much different than Europe. They need to prove that the “bad” wire repair caused the problem.

 

[Uwe]

I'd not heard of dirty intake valves manifesting as engine knock, but then that's a Kia, not a VW.

-Uwe-

 

[SaVAGeSoot]

Luckily, the KIAs around my hood seem to simply blow up or catch on fire, so I doubt the owners ever have to worry about carbon buildup.

 

[stefdds]

 

[Uwe]

So was anyone aware that there's a 20,000 mile maintenance on these drive units?

Or that they're made in Chynah?

-Uwe-