2020 US Presidential Election

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   #981  

dieseldub

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I may also add to the above that from what I'm reading, in the next two decades there WILL be massive job losses regardless of policy changes designed to keep jobs from being shipped overseas.

The Mid West has already experienced it, but it absolutely can be argued that the automotive sector has lost MORE jobs to automation than it has to outsourcing since the 1960s, combined with more people simply buying import cars. There were angry protests by auto workers against import cars at some points because they were placing more blame on people's purchase decisions than they were on the fact that just as many, if not more jobs were simply automated away by robots that could do their jobs with more consistent quality, faster and for less money.

Same with the MAGA movement where people start to blame immigrants and job loss to outsourcing when behind the scenes, there has been a constant march towards more and more automation across all sectors, and it's going to displace FAR more jobs in the coming years than than any trade policy or border wall and immigration policy will be able to compensate for.

The sooner we grapple with this reality and what to do about it, the better. I'm all about actionable, reality-based solutions, not rhetoric that makes it FEEL like real solutions are being offered by "building that wall" and blowing up trade deals. Though I personally would definitely like to see fewer daily items made in China to be shipped and purchased here.

But I will say, this pandemic actually briefly outlined the short-sightedness of having too much production outsourced overseas when we didn't have the capacity to produce an adequate amount of PPE for front line workers as well as fill demand to the public to wear masks for various states' mandates. States like California had to go and make deals with China to procure supplies. I, for one, would much rather see our own ability to manufacture such necessary items bolstered and deals put in place to protect such production from being outsourced again. But the above point about automation still remains that it was just as, if not more damaging to the number of jobs lost in the last several decades.
 
   #982  

DV52

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@dieseldub: Well argued and very balanced description of America's status quo - thanks for taking the time to pen your thoughts (interesting read for a foreigner)!

I've always been intrigued by the role of conspiracy theories in driving behavior and without intending any offense to your heritage, they seem to be a particularly prevalent motivator in American culture of late (I think - from what I'm reading in the press). Do you have any thoughts regarding this? Assuming that you agree - why is it that so many of your compatriots seem to believe in conspiracy theories being the root cause for their woes (other than of course that it deftly abrogates responsibility/accountability to someone else) ?

Don
 
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   #983  

Jack@European_Parts

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If you know historically there have been job losses and there will be continued job losses as a result of alleged automation, then why would it be wrong to curtail immigration and especially unlawful border crossings, when the infrastructure can't take care of what it has now being pervasively diluted for lawful citizens?

Is it really because Natural born Americans here are lazy and don't want to work for peanuts or is it because business owners that continue to take advantage of the poor & willing to work for less which are being exploited for the unskilled labor force & without being penalized adequately for failing to pay for the aforementioned infrastructure already diluted?
 
   #984  

Uwe

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how is it possible to reasonably interpret my request that a citizen in a free democracy exercises his right to vote as an attempt to suppress free speech?
You told him to "Please stop saying that you don't vote". If he chooses not to vote, that's his decision to make, and he's free to say so here.
I'm aware that you (and Jack) do not participate in the democratic process on election day
I most certainly did participate in the most recent election. In fact, I drove over 1000 miles so my wife and I could vote in person on election day. However, my vote was overridden by a giant dump of "mail in" ballots that started in the the wee hours of the following morning and continued for several days, which were counted in total disregard of the lawful procedures established by Pennsylvania's legislature. Signature matching? Nope, we don't need that! Postmarks proving they were actually mailed by election day? Nope, we don't need those either. Needless to say, I am disillusioned with the process and if this is the way we run elections in the future, I do not think I will be participating again.

-Uwe-
 
   #985  

Uwe

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If you find yourself at a protest, on one side of you, you find someone with a "Camp Auschwitz" shirt that also says "6 million wasn't enough" and on another side someone waving the Confederate flag or maybe has some form of Nazi symbolism, you might be on the 'wrong side.'
The last "protest" I attended was a 2A rally in Harrisburg in early 2013, so it pre-dated the Trump era, but I would wager that almost all of the attendees voted for Trump three years later. I don't recall a single anti-Semitic thing, nor any confederate flags.

Let's turn this around: If you find yourself at a protest and on one side of you, you see someone wearing a Che Guevara shirt that also says "Eat the Rich" and on the other side you have someone carrying a Mexican flag (here in the US!) or a sign that says, "Make America Mexico Again!" you're probably on the wrong side. :)

-Uwe-
 
   #986  

jyoung8607

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You told him to "Please stop saying that you don't vote". If he chooses not to vote, that's his decision to make, and he's free to say so here.
Uwe, you're being silly. You know good and well what he meant. It's like talking someone out of suicide and saying "stop saying you have nothing to live for." It's the very same sentiment I've expressed to both you and Jack a few times.

I most certainly did participate in the most recent election. In fact, I drove over 1000 miles so my wife and I could vote in person on election day.
I think PA would have mailed you a ballot, and you could have used their website to make sure it was received well in advance, but whatever floats your boat.

However, my vote was overridden by a giant dump of "mail in" ballots that started in the the wee hours of the following morning and continued for several days,
All PA mail-in ballot counting started on Election Day, and take several days to complete, as they do for every PA election, per those procedures established by Pennsylvania's legislature. This whole "vote dump" narrative from the right is not only lying, but childishly stupid lying.

Also, what's with this sour-grapes worldview that your vote doesn't count unless you win? My OH vote counted just fine. My preferred candidate didn't carry OH, but I'm right there in the count.

Postmarks proving they were actually mailed by election day? Nope, we don't need those either.
Immaterial. You could assume every single ballot that arrived after November 3rd was cast for Biden (they weren't), that every single one lacked a November 3rd 5PM postmark (they didn't), and if you shit-canned all of them, it would still only move Biden's PA margin of victory by about 12%.

Needless to say, I am disillusioned with the process and if this is the way we run elections in the future, I do not think I will be participating again.
Today, January 15th of this year of our Lord 2021, in the aftermath of an insurrection he nurtured and fomented, the President of the United States looked outside his window in the White House, and saw a banner for the inauguration of his successor. He then deemed it wise to take an in-person meeting from a gentleman named Mike Lindell.

Other than making pillows, Mike Lindell is legendary for his deep love of two things: crack cocaine and Donald Trump. I'm given to understand he's sober now, so he's got that much going for him, which is nice. However, the agenda of the meeting was to encourage Trump to (among other things) declare martial law as a mechanism to stay in power. That's less nice, especially after a failed insurrection during which blood was spilled.

Rather than continuing to bring up the same debunked crap over and over, and expressing disappointment we won't have four more years of Donald Trump, I had really hoped you would be more concerned with his support of domestic terrorism, and the other events of the past week.

If you can't bring yourself to do that, well that's your absolute right. Shout it out right here in your Bar in front of your friends and family and employees and business partners and customers, just as loud and long as you like. God I wouldn't dream of muzzling you. As a friend, though, I tell you that wouldn't be a good look. And with great sadness and bitter disappointment about my personal failure to break through to you, I'd say maybe future nonparticipation is for the best. Please tell me I'm making some wrong assumptions here.
 
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   #987  

DV52

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You told him to "Please stop saying that you don't vote". If he chooses not to vote, that's his decision to make, and he's free to say so here.

First thank you @jyoung8607 for your efforts in my defense - much appreciated and your analogy is indeed very apt!!

@Uwe: I've encountered the "selective quote" rebuttal many times in the past, but I'm surprised that a man of your prowess for rational thinking would attempt its use!

This is what I actually said:
@Jack@European_Parts: Please stop saying that you don't vote - it's not a badge of honor. Be part of the solution, not part of the disaffected!!
Context is everything!! I know you agree, because I've read countless numbers of your posts where in trying to understand a forum member with a technical position/problem, you always ask for an auto-scan - for context!!

How anyone can reasonably claim that my words had either the overt, or implicit objective of stifling free speech is beyond (my) comprehension. But, enuff said - I'm much more interested in reading about your local politics from those who are willing to write!!



I most certainly did participate in the most recent election.
hmmm........ apology, my confusion (I guess)
I didn't vote for many years, and I doubt I will again in the future.
 
   #988  

dieseldub

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American Thinker issues a retraction on lies about Dominion Voting systems, just the latest in a string of right wing outlets to do so as Dominion slings defamatory lawsuits at them.

If they felt they had solid proof of the claims, they wouldn't be shaking in their boots and issuing retraction after the threats of legal action...

 
   #989  

Uwe

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American Thinker issues a retraction on lies about Dominion Voting systems, just the latest in a string of right wing outlets to do so as Dominion slings defamatory lawsuits at them.

If they felt they had solid proof of the claims, they wouldn't be shaking in their boots and issuing retraction after the threats of legal action...

Unfortunately, one's chance of prevailing in the US justice system is often quite dependent on the financial resources one has available, and I would wager that Dominion Voting Systems (what a great name!) has orders of magnitude more than a small blog site does.

-Uwe-
 
   #990  

Uwe

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Note to all: This thread will be closed on January 20th.

In the meanwhile, I'll leave you with the following thought:

Nothing says "consent of the governed" quite like having 20,000 troops occupy the capital to protect your inauguration.

-Uwe-
 
   #991  

dieseldub

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FWIW, Fox News and Newsmax also gave similar retractions in December. And I promise Fox has far more resources than Dominion.

 
   #992  

Jack@European_Parts

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   #993  

Jack@European_Parts

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   #994  

Fred's Imports

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Nothing says "consent of the governed" quite like having 20,000 troops occupy the capital to protect your inauguration.

I hear reports of 24,700 something. I've been tracking military flights into Andrews Air Force Base for 4 days and the C17s, C5s and others are non-stop during the day. There's more going on than just inauguration BS.
 
   #995  

Uwe

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I hear reports of 24,700 something. I've been tracking military flights into Andrews Air Force Base for 4 days and the C17s, C5s and others are non-stop during the day. There's more going on than just inauguration BS.
Yep, it might end up being closer to 30,000 by the 20th. There are plenty of conspiracy theories about it too. My sense is that it's just the Swamp telling everyone very loudly: "Don't even think about trying to disrupt this."

-Uwe-
 
   #996  

dieseldub

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Yep, it might end up being closer to 30,000 by the 20th. There are plenty of conspiracy theories about it too. My sense is that it's just the Swamp telling everyone very loudly: "Don't even think about trying to disrupt this."

-Uwe-

Seems very likely to me this is the reality as well. The Qanon conspiracies are vast and widespread especially since the start of the pandemic, plus there's an insane number of people who are amped up to burn the whole system to the ground right now thanks to these fabrications.

The feds have been warning various state governments to expect potentially violent protests at their respective capitols as well, especially in battleground states. The government is legitimately concerned over this movement and the 'overthrow the government' feelings it inspires--which are now turning into actions.

And Trump was playing right to this group to further his own ends.
 
   #998  

Uwe

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I doubt the Senate will have a trial because a trial means letting the defense do discovery and making its own arguments.

Then there's also the small matter of: How much more do the Republicans in the Senate want to piss off the 75 million or so people who voted for Trump in November? A fair number of them have already committed political suicide.

-Uwe-
 

DV52

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........... and so it ends; the exist of a former TV reality show host with an "unique" grasp of reality and the entrance of yet another of the establishment elite!! But it certainly was a hell-of-a-ride for everyone, including those of us outside America!!

Don
 
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