2020 US Presidential Election

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   #843  

dieseldub

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-Uwe-
At the very top of that page now: " UPDATE 11-28-2020 7 p.m.: Pennsylvania Supreme Court dismisses challenge to mail-in ballot procedures, vacates halt to certification. "

We also have this in Georgia: https://www.newsweek.com/georgia-se...tion-recount-you-should-leave-quietly-1550928
 
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Uwe

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At the very top of that page now: " UPDATE 11-28-2020 7 p.m.: Pennsylvania Supreme Court dismisses challenge to mail-in ballot procedures, vacates halt to certification. "
Things change fast. Note I posted that link roughly 7 hours before that "update".

Next stop, SCOTUS?

-Uwe-

PS: It's interesting that the PA SC dismissed this case on the doctrine of laches. Why do I think the same court would have dismissed a similar suit if it had been filed a year ago due to lack of standing because nobody could show any harm yet?
 
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   #845  

dieseldub

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Ronna McDaniel having a fun time telling voters that Georgia's vote audit did not reveal voter fraud, and now she has the fun task of trying to convince Republicans to come out to vote in the senate run off elections if the result "has already been decided" because of Trump and his cronies bellowing about voter fraud.

Oops, that backfired a bit, now didn't it?
 
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Uwe

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Uwe

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What does it mean to you?
Checking/comparing signatures, particularly on mail-in ballots, and verifying that people who voted by mail are actually still residents of the place they claim would be a good start.

Look, I accept that Biden/Harris will likely get 270+ votes on December 14th, and once that happens, he can rightfully be called "President-elect".

However, I don't think it would be good for the country to have a substantial fraction of the electorate believing that the White House was stolen from the candidate they voted for, so stuff like that really needs to be done, and the next time Dems try to steal an election, they should be more subtle about it. ;)

-Uwe-

 
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Checking/comparing signatures, particularly on mail-in ballots, and verifying that people who voted by mail are actually still residents of the place they claim would be a good start.
What data do you have, that makes you think that's a substantial source of fraud?

However, I don't think it would be good for the country to have a substantial fraction of the electorate believing that the White House was stolen from the candidate they voted for,
Indeed, our nation is grappling with a truly serious problem in that regard.

so stuff like that really needs to be done,
But there's not a thing we can do to reason them out of positions they weren't reasoned into.

and the next time Dems try to steal an election, they should be more subtle about it. ;)
Hmm... what does that mean?
 
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Uwe

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What data do you have, that makes you think that's a substantial source of fraud?
What's the margin in Georgia? Less than 13,000 votes. It doesn't take a very "substantial" amount of fraud to account for 13,000 votes out of 4.9 million cast. Wisconsin and Arizona margins are also very slim.
But there's not a thing we can do to reason them out of positions they weren't reasoned into.
Certainly there is. We can do a proper audit.
what does that mean?
  • That they shouldn't "stop counting" at midnight, tell the observers to go home, and then have huge batches of ballots appear in the wee hours, while no observers are present, and be counted before the observers return at dawn.
  • That the ballots which appear under such circumstance shouldn't have a ratio of 90% or more for the Dem candidate.
  • That ballots which appear under such circumstances should be more complete than just having votes for the presidential race, as if they were filled out in a huge hurry once it became apparent how many were needed.
  • That the rejection rate of "mailed" ballots shouldn't be historically low (in some places 10 times lower than it has ever been).
  • That they have to take the time to properly fold ballots that were ostensibly mailed so they look somewhat believable.
  • That they shouldn't be in a such a hurry to destroy the signature bearing envelopes. Doing that really makes the other side wonder what they're trying to hide.

Seriously, the anomalies with this election are completely inexplicable.
  • Virtually every House race that was a toss-up in the polls was won by the R candidate. By the time they're all called, Republicans will have picked up a dozen or more seats.
  • Dems didn't flip any State legislatures, but Republicans picked both chambers in NH, and got two new "trifectas" (NH and MT).
  • When has a presidential candidate who "defeated" an incumbent not had any coat-tails? Because Biden certainly didn't.
  • Trump won 18 out of 19 so-called so-called "Bellwether" counties. No "loser" has ever done that.
  • Trump won the swing-states that finished counting their votes on election day by substantial margins.
  • Biden won the swing-states that couldn't finish their count until after it was known how many were needed to get him a win.
We're at the point where tens of millions of people believe it was stolen. Simply repeating the mantra that, "There's no evidence!" over and over isn't going to convince them otherwise.

-Uwe-
 
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dieseldub

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Countdown until Trump fires Barr, who previously was very sycophantic to his causes?
 
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jyoung8607

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What's the margin in Georgia? Less than 13,000 votes. It doesn't take a very "substantial" amount of fraud to account for 13,000 votes out of 4.9 million cast. Wisconsin and Arizona margins are also very slim.
It doesn't take a very "substantial" amount of effort to collect evidence of fraud that the Republicans say they have, and yet, they haven't managed to do so. They've spent the last few weeks getting laughed out of court across the country.

Certainly there is. We can do a proper audit.
And when that's done, there'll be another reason it's illegitimate, like the Dominion voting machine software being hacked somehow. And when that's cut to pieces, there'll be another, like Hugo Chavez hacking our elections from the grave. And when that's cut to pieces, there'll be another, like a national coordinated conspiracy between thousands of local election officials to tamper with per-county and per-precinct numbers so all the crosstabs and ballots-cast-to-candidate-votes tally up correctly. And when that's cut to pieces, there'll be something else to be fauxraged about. Some people will never, ever, ever believe the results are legitimate.

  • That they shouldn't "stop counting" at midnight, tell the observers to go home, and then have huge batches of ballots appear in the wee hours, while no observers are present, and be counted before the observers return at dawn.
  • That the ballots which appear under such circumstance shouldn't have a ratio of 90% or more for the Dem candidate.
  • That ballots which appear under such circumstances should be more complete than just having votes for the presidential race, as if they were filled out in a huge hurry once it became apparent how many were needed.
  • That the rejection rate of "mailed" ballots shouldn't be historically low (in some places 10 times lower than it has ever been).
  • That they have to take the time to properly fold ballots that were ostensibly mailed so they look somewhat believable.
  • That they shouldn't be in a such a hurry to destroy the signature bearing envelopes. Doing that really makes the other side wonder what they're trying to hide.
To the limited extent anyone's dared to walk into a court of law with these allegations, there's a very good reason they aren't getting any traction at all, and it's because they're asking for absurd remedies based on virtually no proof. Nobody involved ever expected it to succeed. It only needed to run out the clock on various state's certification process, to push it past the safe harbor deadline and kick the EC elector slate selection to the state legislatures. That part already failed. But, it did let them grift another $170 million and counting from their most reliable marks. That part is succeeding bigly, so they're going to keep pushing it.

Seriously, the anomalies with this election are completely inexplicable.
  • Virtually every House race that was a toss-up in the polls was won by the R candidate. By the time they're all called, Republicans will have picked up a dozen or more seats.
  • Dems didn't flip any State legislatures, but Republicans picked both chambers in NH, and got two new "trifectas" (NH and MT).
  • When has a presidential candidate who "defeated" an incumbent not had any coat-tails? Because Biden certainly didn't.
  • Trump won 18 out of 19 so-called so-called "Bellwether" counties. No "loser" has ever done that.
  • Trump won the swing-states that finished counting their votes on election day by substantial margins.
  • Biden won the swing-states that couldn't finish their count until after it was known how many were needed to get him a win.
One way to explain it is a massive conspiracy. A beautiful, bigly tremendous conspiracy.

A simpler way to explain it is this: Donald Trump is a terrible human being and very bad at his job, and he drove turnout on BOTH sides to throw him out of office, which resulted in quite a lot more ticket-splitting than usual. Is it so shocking there are people in this world who manage to hold small government philosophies *and* not enjoy the taste of Donald Trump's boot leather at the same time?

As for the swing state vote counts, the entire planet knew months in advance the night of the election there'd be a red mirage in some states, due to the relatively slow and late way mail-in and absentee ballots had to be counted, and the fact that Republicans were much more likely to vote day-of rather than mail-in. Everyone knew he was going to pull something like this. It was on every news channel. It was on every late night talk show. Every social network. Facebook and Twitter and Youtube had to add new features to their platform to deal with misinformation, to account for the fact that Donald Trump is exactly the type of shitbag who would declare himself victor night-of, when he and everyone else knew very well what was going to happen over the next few days. And sure enough, not only are we in that situation, it's worse than anyone could have imagined.

We're at the point where tens of millions of people believe it was stolen. Simply repeating the mantra that, "There's no evidence!" over and over isn't going to convince them otherwise.
Tens of millions of people believe Barack Obama is a Muslim terrorist born in Kenya (or Indonesia or whatever). Let's set aside the mental gymnastics it took those exact same people to tie him to a Church of Christ pastor they didn't like. They know in their heart of hearts he's born in Kenya. Normal proof of citizenship won't do. They want to see the birth certificate. When they see it, it's fake. They want to see the original birth certificate. Then that's fake. They want to see the long form birth certificate. Then that's fake. The two newspaper archives that show his birth, those are fake too. Everything is fake. Every bit of evidence against their belief somehow gets turned around into proof of just how deep and powerful the conspiracy is, how bad "they" don't want you to know the truth.

We're facing the same problem with the election. Some people are simply going to choose not to process information that contradicts their beliefs and desires. Some of them may snap out of it eventually, but it looks like a lot of them just can't be helped. They'll just find some other channel, some other site or service, some other person that'll tell them what they want to hear.
 
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No. "Democratic Machine" in certain cities. There's a very long tradition of that, but I doubt it's ever been as effective as this year.
Tampering with a national election ain't easy. That would be a very powerful machine.

Seems like such a Democratic machine would find it child's play to turn up a few people who'd say there were snipers in the area when Hillary Clinton landed in Bosnia.

Or, hide the fact Bill Clinton got a beej in a building among the most heavily secured and protected against outside surveillance in the Western world.
 
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