2020 US Presidential Election

   #821  

dieseldub

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How mad are republicans going to be if they bought into this administrations bag of lies? Or will they even realize that this administration has been stringing them along this whole time?


"Stop the Steal" was a plan Trump's 2016 campaign had locked and loaded in case they lost THAT election. They won it, so it wasn't necessary, but Trump still claimed there must have been fraud since Hillary somehow still won the popular vote. And Trump did publicly outright say before the 2016 election that if he lost, he would protest the results.

Now that he actually did lose the 2020 election, we see the full Roger Stone "Stop the Steal" campaign in action.

Now, I've long since given up on getting too hyped up over conspiracy theories, but I'm sure there was a timely reason to Trump commuting Stone's sentence. He needed that evil genius to put this plan in motion to sway Trump's supporters to help buy into this horseshit and legitimately undermine the election.

The lie that seems to have gained the most steam recently has to do with the Dominion Voting system machines "deleting or flipping votes." Now, there was some operator error that happened AND WAS CORRECTED, which does not affect the current count.

Joint statement from CISA.gov: https://www.cisa.gov/news/2020/11/1...ture-government-coordinating-council-election

Also from Dominion Voting's website (which contains a link to the above CISA statement):
1) VOTE DELETION/SWITCHING ASSERTIONS ARE COMPLETELY FALSE.
An unsubstantiated claim about the deletion of 2.7 million pro-Trump votes that was posted on the Internet and spread on social media has been taken down and debunked by independent fact-checkers.

  • Edison Research (ER) has refuted any claims that company data suggests any voting irregularities, including vote switching. ER President Larry Rosin told The Dispatch Fact Check, "Edison Research created no such report and we are not aware of any voter fraud."
  • Claims that 941,000 votes for President Trump in Pennsylvania were deleted are impossible, as Dominion only serves 14 Commonwealth counties. Collectively, those Counties produced 1.3 million votes representing a voter turnout of 76%. Fifty-two percent of those votes went to President Trump, which amounts to 676,000 votes the company's system processed for the President in Pennsylvania.

I also listened to Trump's press conference yesterday, which was mostly a coronavirus briefing, and there was a small crack in his rhetoric he let slip out. Something along the lines of:

"Whichever administration that ends up having to deal with this..."

I think reality is setting in that no matter how many tantrums and lawsuits he flings with flimsy evidence, he isn't very likely to win. There are too many states to overturn with margins that are too large and the evidence of fraud will not be enough to flip enough votes back in his favor. Most of the so-called evidence is extremely flimsy and mostly hearsay and thus inadmissable in court. Not only that, but they've been caught lying about not having ballot watchers in key areas when they actually DID have them. And does it make sense that they would NOT have ballot watchers already in the building starting on election day considering he was already bellowing about "illegal ballots" for more than 2 months prior to election day? Give me a break.

But by all means, go ahead and recount a couple key states just to be sure.
 
   #822  

dieseldub

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The above is a bit of a long read, though the source is more of a blog rather than something normally considered credible.

But what *is* strange is that a link to this blog that expounds how much of the voter fraud allegations are lies was found retweeted by none other than conservative commentator, Ben Shapiro.

Apparently he's one of the few conservative commentators who's going to stick with evidence on this one rather than whole hog tow the company line.

I thought that was interesting.
 
   #823  

Jack@European_Parts

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   #824  

Jack@European_Parts

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Bargaining phase transition depression to acceptance?



 
   #827  

Uwe

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   #831  

Jack@European_Parts

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   #832  

Jack@European_Parts

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   #833  

DV52

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@Jack@European_Parts - hey jack: There is much about your country's politics that I find interesting. But I have to say that nothing quite exceeds my fascination in the constitutional power of your President to pardon convicted federal felons!! In Australia, we have what's called the "royal prerogative of mercy" that is a legacy of the Queen as our head-of-State (I wish we were a republic). But our facilities for pardoning felons is most definitely not used in the way that your POTUS exercises his powers.

Here in the land-of-Oz, we have pretty much the same tripartite system as does America for the "separation of powers"; being the necessary checks-and-balances for government decisions (i.e. legislature/Parliament - Prime Minister & Minsters/President & Secretaries - Courts). So there are similarities in our two systems of Government (and of course there are profound differences, too). However, never in my understanding of our history has there been an instance of a pardon where the convicted criminal has clear ties to the decision maker. And I'm certain that any attempt for such a pardon down here would generate a huge uproar from both the populus and institutions like the courts and media!

Hence my fascination for how this facility is managed in your country. I would imagine that when POTUS pardons a "normal" felon that has no political connections, it's a fairly benign process as far as public reactions is concerned. But how does the public react in America when someone like Flynn is pardoned when he has close historic ties to POTUS and he has admitted to his crimes as part of his conviction? I know that in your system, the pardon does not expunge the crime; it negates the sentence - but does the rank-and-file in your country just accept the decision as simply the powers of POTUS? And how does the country deal with the obvious conflict of interest? Really interesting !!!

Don
 
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   #835  

Bruce

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I would imagine that when POTUS pardons a "normal" felon that has no political connections, it's a fairly benign process as far as public reactions is concerned. But how does the public react in America when someone like Flynn is pardoned when he has close historic ties to POTUS and he has admitted to his crimes as part of his conviction? I know that in your system, the pardon does not expunge the crime; it negates the sentence - but does the rank-and-file in your country just accept the decision as simply the powers of POTUS? And how does the country deal with the obvious conflict of interest? Really interesting !!!

Don
Seems the public simply accepts that all POTUS have done this and it is the way of Washington. Seems no one even raises an eyebrow. Part of the reason the politicians due as they please... Check my facts Don - in recent years, most departing POTUS have pardoned convicted cronies and others...
 
   #836  

PetrolDave

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in recent years, most departing POTUS have pardoned convicted cronies and others...
This shows that pardoning has been something done by every US president
 
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   #837  

DV52

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This shows that pardoning has been something done by every US president
Dave - yes. I was aware that the facility was well-used by past Presidents and that it was very "partisan" in some cases. Your link is a stark reminder of how endemic the practice is (has been) - thanks

Seems the public simply accepts that all POTUS have done this and it is the way of Washington. Seems no one even raises an eyebrow. Part of the reason the politicians due as they please... Check my facts Don - in recent years, most departing POTUS have pardoned convicted cronies and others...
Bruce: OK, I suspected as much!! Seems odd to me (and this comment is not particularly related to Trump) that in cases where there is admission of guilt and where there is a close connection between the felon and decision maker, there isn't more media and public reaction - especially when claims of political corruption are made by the decision maker, so close to the pardon; when the perception of a conflict of interest is perhaps more important than the supposed-merits for the pardon.

But as you say, there is an apparent cultural acceptance in the American community when this happens - strange!! To me, the very mechanism for Presidential/Regal pardons is an anathema in a society that espouses egalitarianism - if for no other reason than it has the real potential to short-circuit a fundamental building block of democracy; the separation of powers. Of course the law is an ass and it is indeed fallible - but there are mechanisms to appeal against convictions within the legal system. IMHO, if heads-of-State are to have such powers, they should be exercised VERY carefully (and judiciously)!

Don
 
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   #838  

Uwe

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but does the rank-and-file in your country just accept the decision as simply the powers of POTUS?
Yes, because it's enshrined in Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution:
The President [...] shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
Note that the President does not have the power to pardon a "normal" felon, because run-of-the-mill felonies are generally prosecuted by the individual State in which the crime was committed rather than by the Federal Government, and the wording in the Constitution clearly limits the President's power to crimes committed "against the United States", i.e. crimes that the Federal Government has (or intends to) prosecute.

That said, most State Constitutions also convey similar powers to the Governors of the individual States.

-Uwe-
 
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