2020 US Presidential Election

   #361  

Jack@European_Parts

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I am not disagreeing with you Bruce, just frustrated with things I see that don't add up, you have to see things that just don't add up too right?

Things are certainly not finite, nor as described in general are they?

When, why, what version & what context?
 
   #362  

Bruce

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Absolutely... too many things. Man spins things to promote agendas. These spins do not help us communicate clearly. We have to find a way past those agendas and to have dialog that has meaning. But how? Most have an agenda - something they are passionate about. How many are willing to set their agenda aside to hear the words of another? There in lies the problem. It has existed for all of human existence. Why can't we find a way?

And lest you think I speak as if believers have it all together, know that I know we do not. The fights among believers are no different. Nuance divides us. And again I say, I see God crying about that too! If even the church cannot work through it's differences, how then will the rest of man? If one believes that man was created - not evolved from a pool of goo, from which science now seems to be pushing away, Darwin's theories being under fire - one has to wonder what God was thinking when he gave man a brain with which to accept or reject God's ways! We believe He gave man "free will". The question I often ask is "WHY would you do that God? Look at the mess it created!" And we could talk about that for days on end.

I don't know the way to help people communicate by putting down their agendas. If I did, I would propose it.

What I can say is that the inability to hear one another leads to more agendas and more passionate actions. How will these get us to that quietness where we can hear and listen?

Jack, the last time I felt this frustrated was as a kid in the 60's when the race issues rose. In those days, the Black Panthers promoted a dialog of violence to get attention. Martin Luther King led non-violent protests. Like now, factions used different means to an end.

Changes were implemented but I really think that other issues (the war in Nam - the first oil crisis - the Nixon near impeachment) took the attention from the race issue. Things diffused.. Should we let that happen again? Should we let things diffuse? Or should we strive toward revolutionary actions that would make the words of the Declaration to be True for all in this country? Is it a time to step up and work together for the truths the writers of the document recorded?

Again, we digress.. Maybe we should start another thread: "Dealing with our Times - the feelings of frustration and helplessness"
 
   #363  

Jack@European_Parts

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Needles to say, I am disappointed in this administration for my own private reasons and the obvious ones everyone see's day in & day out?

WTF happened to "indivisible", it is in the purported pledge...... institute it, no?


https://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm


The Pledge of Allegiance

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country.
In its original form it read:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration. Today it reads:
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Section 4 of the Flag Code states:
The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."
The original Bellamy salute, first described in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, who authored the original Pledge, began with a military salute, and after reciting the words "to the flag," the arm was extended toward the flag.
At a signal from the Principal the pupils, in ordered ranks, hands to the side, face the Flag. Another signal is given; every pupil gives the flag the military salute — right hand lifted, palm downward, to a line with the forehead and close to it. Standing thus, all repeat together, slowly, "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all." At the words, "to my Flag," the right hand is extended gracefully, palm upward, toward the Flag, and remains in this gesture till the end of the affirmation; whereupon all hands immediately drop to the side.
The Youth's Companion, 1892
Shortly thereafter, the pledge was begun with the right hand over the heart, and after reciting "to the Flag," the arm was extended toward the Flag, palm-down.
In World War II, the salute too much resembled the Nazi salute, so it was changed to keep the right hand over the heart throughout.
 
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   #364  

DV52

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Most of us believers do not pray for the outcome. We pray that God would enable those who are in leadership positions to have wisdom - to make decisions based on truth - moral code - rather than on self-serving code. The outcome will be what it will be. It would be our hope that the God we know to love all would bestow a measure of wisdom on those who lead.
Bruce: I really do envy you your faith, particularly the simplicity of your beliefs and your trust that prayer will in someway be beneficial in reminding your God to grant wisdom to whoever wins the election. I have exactly the same desire (regardless of the fact that I'm not a US citizen) that whoever leads your country will be wise - but for me, this outcome has nothing to do with prayer and it certainly isn't a matter that an omnipotent deity will control - except, I guess if you believe in the inevitable fate of destiny (i.e. Kismet).

But then I have never understood the concept of prayer from a God's perspective. I view God's relationship with humans akin to the relationship between humans and ants; even if this all powerful being listened to the pleas of the ants that she created (it's possible I guess) - prayer should not be necessary since God would have the same motivation to grant POTUS wisdom because of the wider needs of the rest of the ants!! The concept of prayer introduces the notion that it's beneficial to honor the deity and that the deity can be pursued in some way to act differently; it kind-of suggests that the deity's prime-directive can be changed, or said another way - it suggests that the ants know better than the deity!! Being a non-beilever can be so complex!!:(

Anyhow, I don't mean to question your beliefs - they are YOUR beliefs and they make sense to you in the same way that mine make sense to me!!
 
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   #366  

Uwe

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Jack: An interview between Sean Hannity and the Donald is unlikely to be informative, or enlightening ( and as to be expected - even the audience questions were soporific and indulgent)!!
Would you find an interview between Rachael Maddow and Joe Biden more informative and enlightening? ;)

-Uwe-
 
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PetrolDave

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Would you find an interview between Rachael Maddow and Joe Biden more informative and enlightening? ;)
I've never found any interview with any politician informative or enlightening :cool:

They ignore the questions and "answer" the questions they would like to have been asked :banghead:
 
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Mike R

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Goya Foods facing consumer boycotts after CEO praises Trump

How pathetic has the left become that they'll boycott a company just because the CEO says he likes the president? Not any actually admonishable action, just... "hey thanks for being good."

Make sure to buy all your local Goya foods. Especially you Santos.
 
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DV52

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I've never found any interview with any politician informative or enlightening :cool:

They ignore the questions and "answer" the questions they would like to have been asked :banghead:
Dave: That's because the objective of a politician in an interview is very different to the objective of the interviewer - as I suspect you already know!!;)

I've always ignored politician responses (interviews have seldom been useful mechanisms for information gathering) - but these days when I listen to politicians being interviewed, I try to look-for the underlying purpose in the diversion replies. It's often the most informative part of the interview IMO.

Don
 
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Would you find an interview between Rachael Maddow and Joe Biden more informative and enlightening? ;)

-Uwe-
Uwe: Whilst I personally view the Donald as evil-incarnate (hmm... probably a tad harsh - perhaps better to say "a bumbling buffoon", which is even worse) - I'm not sure that a question which has the words "informative and enlightening" in the same sentence as the names of party candidates (regardless of party, or country) can be taken seriously. The term oxymoron comes to mind !! ;)

So - I assume that yours was a rhetorical question?

Don
 
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Goya Foods facing consumer boycotts after CEO praises Trump

How pathetic has the left become that they'll boycott a company just because the CEO says he likes the president? Not any actually admonishable action, just... "hey thanks for being good."
Mike: How endemic is this disturbing dynamic in the US elections? Regardless of whether it's the leftist/pinko/hippies that have initiated the tactic in this instance, is it something that is taken seriously by citizens when making everyday buying decisions?

Don
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Nah just makes doing what is rouge more fun since it's exciting, like people smoking drinking and cheating?
It was the devil offering up another apple!
 
   #373  

Mike R

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Mike: How endemic is this disturbing dynamic in the US elections? Regardless of whether it's the leftist/pinko/hippies that have initiated the tactic in this instance, is it something that is taken seriously by citizens when making everyday buying decisions?

Don
I'd have to say it's less a function of specifically elections and more that it comes in waves in response to certain unfortunate events. This current wave (post-George Floyd) is like a tsunami. Tragedy happens, and then people (as of late, the left) become emboldened and try to use it is a platform to push their ideologies, there's been a massive snowball effect. The example I linked above is at least so far the epitome of people not being able to simply enjoy life and being consumed by their world view.

As for how seriously it's taken it definitely varies. Here's a young very far left (hispanic, like Goya) congressional representative chiming in:


She's gathered a large following for a representative, but it's really hard to say how much those followers treat her word like gospel. I just find it incredibly sad that simply showing support for the president is now considered grounds for a boycott. I really worry how long it will be until these same individuals are able to get their way and suppress speech, thoughts, and ideas they disagree with. When that happens the experiment of a free country the founding fathers set forth almost 250 years ago is over. That's the worst possibility, but it feels more and more likely to me with each passing day. Death by 1000 cuts.

EDIT: My conclusion at the end is not solely stemming from this 'boycott' but this is just one of many small further steps in that direction we've seen in 2020.
 
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Mike R

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Yup. This is now getting more and more concerning.
 
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DV52

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EDIT: My conclusion at the end is not solely stemming from this 'boycott' but this is just one of many small further steps in that direction we've seen in 2020.
Mike : very interesting (thanks) - I agree, an unhealthy example of the changing democratic processes.

With the explosion of different information sources to the community, there is probably an urgent need to educate the voting public about how to consume media (and not just in America) -maybe? The one good aspect of the Donald's regime in the US is his coining of the term "fake media" - but there is an infinitely larger degree of complexity to this simple distinction. Perhaps this is just an example of the fast-pace evolution in information delivery lagging the ability of users to assimilate the knowledge - perhaps?

Don
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Is it about choosing where you live and maybe don't live next to a politician since now their homes are indeed better targets than the city you shop and live in?

If protests took place only at politicians homes and places of work or frequency, do you think the protests would matter more when specifically focused?
 
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