Successful C7 0B5 Clutch Calibration MY2013

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nugentp

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Just a quick note to say I followed the clutch valve and distance sensor calibration (basic settings) on MY2013 C7 Avant with 0B5 DSG transmission without problems.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/7-Speed_S-Tronic_Direct-Shift_Gearbox_(DSG/0B5)

The car had started giving the odd thumpy gear change - especially moving away from stand still and when cold sometimes into 2 or 3, but was increasingly doing it occasionally when warm so I rolled the dice on this procedure and must say it has been a massive improvement based on a short test drive. Need to drive it from cold before completely happy.

Car has ~95k miles and is up to date with dealership DSG oil & filter changes. The TCM never threw up a fault code before or after the procedure.

For the record, I did the procedure with VCDS 19.6 and I think the TCM was updated with latest software last time it had the DSG oil serviced. I will post up any relevant part number details later if anyone else needs additional confidence boost before doing this.
 
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nugentp

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Just realised this is probably in the wrong sub-forum - my bad - apologies.
 
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nugentp

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Here is the TCM information if anyone needs to crosscheck etc -->

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:| 0B5-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 927 156 S HW: 0B5 927 156 F
Component: 0B5 30 TDIRdW H10 0004
Revision: --H10--- Serial number: 0000000481
Coding: 000001
Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMDL501 A02196
ROD: EV_TCMDL501.rod
VCID: 3C34305CB71383AF8B-8069
 
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Uwe

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nugentp

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I've got some worries - less than a week after reporting a magic cure for clunky DSG changes, it seems they are creeping back in again. No fault codes of course. Gonna have to look into some ways of determining root cause of problem so thats gonna be fun (not) - fully expecting to find out the worst on this super complex transmission.
 
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Mech. Unit HW: 0B5 927 156 F is considered as a "bad part".
There is TPI for that unit where 3 solenoids are replaced, but only if they give fault code. RoW: TPI 2039534/12


From my personal experience You should try software update from dealer/3rd ODIS party using testplan option for DSG clutch check. It does automatically software update and then runs clutch wear index test. It relieves a little bit the wonky gearchange.

In my opinion the real issue is the mech itself and oil pressure valves inside. There is a repair kit for sale where You can drill them to bigger size and install oversized valves. Other option is to install whole new mech.

Depending on mileage the clutches themselves can be a issue also.
 
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nugentp

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Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:| 0B5-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 927 156 S HW: 0B5 927 156 F
Component: 0B5 30 TDIRdW H10 0004
Revision: --H10--- Serial number: 0000000481

Seems I have the ill-fated mech unit that you called out !

The TCU had a s/w update with the 2nd DSG oil change last year. I have ordered up an SSP429 from erwin and will have to swot up for a while on that before I can start to even talk sensibly about it. I have seen other threads and forums discussing faulty solenoids. Only have 100k miles. Also interesting about aftermarket over-sized pressure valves.
 
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nugentp

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So an update - a week ago - Friday 13th no less, the car starting making more heavy ugly changes - particularly pulling away from standstill and coming to stop, but occasionally some other gears. I wasn't driving at the time, but apparently it lit up like the proverbial xmas tree and came to a halt after a particularly vicious noise. Luckily it coasted enough and got parked out of harms way. Couple of phone calls later and it was flat-bed trailed home.

When I got to the car, I plugged in VCDS and got the code below. This is the only time the DSG has thrown a fault code.

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:| 0B5-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 4G0 927 156 S HW: 0B5 927 156 F
Component: 0B5 30 TDIRdW H10 0004
Revision: --H10--- Serial number: 0000000481
Coding: 000001
Shop #: WSC 02391 785 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMDL501 A02196
ROD: EV_TCMDL501.rod
VCID: BC34B05C371303AF05-80E9

1 Fault Found:
8955 - Valve 3 in Transmission Part 1
P17D4 00 [104] - Mechanical Malfunction
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 155803 km
Date: 2019.09.13
Time: 15:26:57

Engine speed: 771 /min
Transmission input speed: 771 /min
Transmission output speed: 3 /min
Engine torque: -8 Nm
Transmission fluid temperature: 88 ∞C
Accelerator position: 0.0 %
Clutch status: Beide Kupplungen offen

I cleared the code to see if it would return immediately or not. Started the car and it pulled away and through all gears fine - no mechanical noises and the fault code did not come back. There were a few imperfect shifts but nothing horrendous.

After a bit of research with my head in the SSPs, ELSA & ETKA I think I am looking at three courses of action:

Opt 1 - swap out the entire mechatronic unit for a whopping £2500 parts bill
Opt 2 - roll the dice on one of the rebuild specialists, but I'm not liking the high risk in that option - nor do I know the quality of parts
Opt 3 - get the newer internal PCB/loom for around £300 and see if I can find a trusted source of OE (Borg Warner) solenoid for N435 & N440 thinking I may as well change the clutch valve on both shafts at same time. This option is not without risk but I have looked at ELSA info and have tackled worse.

I also have a list from ETKA & ELSA of various pipes & O-rings which also need to be replaced if I pull the mech unit out. What I have not yet found is a trusted source of BW part numbers for all the various solenoid valves and I am not wanting to go shopping for clone/knockoff versions in China.

I will keep looking of course, but if anyone has some good pointers it would be great.
 
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Keithuk

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I've search for 8955 - Valve 3 in Transmission Part 1
P17D4 00 [104] - Mechanical Malfunction

As I don't have that listed. Have a read of Technical Service Bulletin Audi

35 Gearbox malfunction message in cluster (DTCs P17D800, P179D00, P174000, P174C, P174B, P174F, P179C, P174A, P174E)
 
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Uwe

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As I don't have that listed. Have a read of Technical Service Bulletin Audi

35 Gearbox malfunction message in cluster (DTCs P17D800, P179D00, P174000, P174C, P174B, P174F, P179C, P174A, P174E)
Why do you think this is applicable to the OP's situation when not one of the DTCs listed in that TSB matches his?

-Uwe-
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Most likely related to inadequate PSI from oil viscosity change under load and high heat.
OP:
Did you consider to try a heavier fluid to make up for worn mechanical components and additional cooler?
 
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Keithuk

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35 Gearbox malfunction message in cluster (DTCs P17D800, P179D00, P174000)

There are a lot of extended EODB II codes, there are normally a letter then 4 numbers, why do they show 6?

I thought I had asked this question before but I can't find it.
 
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Uwe

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There are a lot of extended EODB II codes, there are normally a letter then 4 numbers, why do they show 6?
You may wish to review the latest SAE/ISO specifications for these. ;)

-Uwe-
 
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nugentp

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Seems this gremlin has returned since September 2019. In October I took the plunge and changed out the two circuit packs on the DSG module - I had the factory "books" as a guide and followed that meticulously along with fresh oil, filter, strainer and new link pipes with O-rings etc. The external connector was bone dry. I did the clutch calibration sequence again and all was good for about another 1k miles until changes started getting clunky again - mostly noticeable on the transition from 1st to standstill or pulling away.

A couple weeks back it went it full limp-mode (wife was driving and reported bad smell with it as well) with only R-2-4-6 available and same single code showing:

Monday,16,December,2019,14:59:40:30756
VCDS Version Release 19.6.2 Running on Windows 7 x86(Parallels)
www.Ross-Tech.com

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 0B5-927-156.clb
Control Module Part Number: 4G0 927 156 S HW: 0B5 927 156 F
Component and/or Version: 0B5 30 TDIRdW H10 0004
Software Coding: 000001
Work Shop Code: WSC 02391 785 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMDL501 A02196 (AU57)
ROD: EV_TCMDL501.rod
VCID: BC34B05C371303AF3B-80E9
1 Fault Found:

8955 - Valve 3 in Transmission Part 1
P17D4 00 [101] - Mechanical Malfunction
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 160110 km
Date: 2019.12.16
Time: 13:50:37

Engine speed: 781 /min
Transmission input speed: 781 /min
Transmission output speed: 0 /min
Engine torque: -8 Nm
Transmission fluid temperature: 84 °C
Accelerator position: 0.0 %
Clutch status: Beide Kupplungen offen

The car sat for couple weeks over the holidays and drove pretty well perfect after that but still heavy sometimes in/out of 1st.

I have had the car at the dealer to see if their machines can find anything that I cannot or point more clearly at a DSG or clutch problem. I also had them analyse the oil. The oil check came back clean and they also have no fault found... so I am not really any further on.

My logic says that if the clutch pack was toast then it would always shift heavily - or at least consistently badly on say 1-3-5. While the fault code calls out a mechanical issue I can't help wonder if its the actual solenoid valve that controls one plane of the clutch pack and when oil temps get higher (we only get issues when in stop/start traffic) which has some intermittent problem.

Does anyone have any experience to determine if fault code P17D4 00 points to failure of specific solenoid or early failure of the clutch pack ?

I wonder is it also worth trying the clutch adaptation sequence(s) with elevated ATF oil temps - anybody got good or bad experience with that ?
 
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8955 - Valve 3 in Transmission Part 1
P17D4 00 [101] - Mechanical Malfunction
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:

Huh?

Cold or HOT?

Transmission fluid temperature: 84 °C
This implies during warm-up phase no?

 
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nugentp

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Huh?

Cold or HOT?

This implies during warm-up phase no?
When I pulled that code the car had been parked up for an hour approx - after the wife had reported it clunking and smelling bad. On the drive home it went into limp mode after approx 5 miles with R-2-4-6 available which aligns with a fault on 'part 1' - even after I tried to clear code again with VCDS. Parked up the car for two weeks and it then drove fine... except for a handful of ugly start & stop transitions when up to temperature. Never gives grief when ATF oil is cold. deffo used correct oil & quantity and there is no contamination - confirmed by dealer today.

The dealership will not point finger at clutch pack or mechatronic unit at this point - especially as they cannot provoke a fault code.

Looking at the applicable SSP (429), I could theorise that solenoid valve N435 (for clutch K1 valve) is the root cause of the problem but I have not been able to source replacements - even horrible pattern parts from China. I don't really want to waste ~8 liters of liquid gold ATF and half a day of my life replacing that on a 'maybe'.
 
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nugentp

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i have emailed maktrans.net for any advice they may share or guidance on pricing for replacement N435 valve. I did find one other thread on Audizine where another 0B5 owner fixed this fault by swapping N435 & N439 over and renewing N472 (main pressure valve).
 
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nugentp

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Don't you think it needs a Mech and clutches if you smelled something sir!
Thats the thing - i wasn't driving it when the alleged smell occurred - for all I know it coincided with some stinky DPF regen eco nonsense but the wife is telling me it had a very different smell to that - more like hot / burning plastic fumes. I don't have any clue what ATF temp was when this happened but it wasn't high enough to store a code. On both occasions when this fault code came up the smell was also present.

If the clutch was bad or excessively worn surely we would get far more frequent harsh changes hot or cold. My thinking is that an intermittent issue with N435 (or maybe N471 or N472) when ATF oil is hot causes the harsh clutch engagement in/out of 1st especially. The intermittent nature here leads me to it being one of those pesky hard to source solenoids. I will have to consider the Maktrans option of buying a replacement mechatronic unit - all new/refurbished solenoids - comes without the controller that I would swap over from the OE module - do all the adaptations and see where that goes.

However I still have niggling doubt that it could be the clutch pack which is much more time intensive job to replace. Audi doesn't want to advise either way yet unless they see something on their diagnostics which is more meaningful than the ambiguous P17D400 code.
 
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