STOP START PERMANENT DELETE, ANY TIPS?

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   #81  

IndianaMuscle

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Hmm, based on my understanding of the English language, if it isn't illegal do something, then it's legal to do that thing.

-Uwe-

It’s my law background rearing its ugly head.

Do you know what the definition of is is?
 
   #82  

IndianaMuscle

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^^^ hmm......... As a prelude to my confusion, I'll freely admit that I may not be the brightest penny in the purse and I'm particularly obtuse when it comes to understanding America's legal instruments for vehicle compliance (your DoT rules for car lighting is absolutely unfathomable IMHO).

So, in view of the preceeding posts - can someone explain to me how the legal (or for that matter, the ethical) prohibition for disabling Start/stop sits with VAG's inclusion of the little button in their cars that does just that (i.e. disables SS)?

If a driver of a car with SS presses the button every-time that the ignition is cycled -does she commit a misdemeanor in America?

And, if the prohibition is for another definition of "permanent" disablement - are the suite of after-market physical devices (like my design) still legal -because they allow SS to be engaged if the driver is so disposed?

And for those drivers that have an ethical problem with SS disablement and who are flooded with Catholic guilt at the mere thought of a finger approaching the native SS button - why do they buy a car that has such a facility?

Don

Ive always liked you.
 
   #83  

IndianaMuscle

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Hmm, based on my understanding of the English language, if it isn't illegal do something, then it's legal to do that thing.

-Uwe-

I’ll also thank you for tacitly defending my mods, as they meet your criteria, Jack and a few others could learn from your superior intellect.
 
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Uwe

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So, in view of the preceeding posts - can someone explain to me how the legal (or for that matter, the ethical) prohibition for disabling Start/stop sits with VAG's inclusion of the little button in their cars that does just that (i.e. disables SS)?
I think the idea is that there may be acceptable reasons to turn off s/s temporarily.

If a driver of a car with SS presses the button every-time that the ignition is cycled -does she commit a misdemeanor in America?
I seriously doubt it.

And, if the prohibition is for another definition of "permanent" disablement - are the suite of after-market physical devices (like my design) still legal -because they allow SS to be engaged if the driver is so disposed?
Unclear. The EPA may take a different view of something that has it off by default rather than the factory's on by default. But the bureaucratic hive-mind is beyond my comprehension, so I'm only guessing.

And for those drivers that have an ethical problem with SS disablement and who are flooded with Catholic guilt at the mere thought of a finger approaching the native SS button - why do they buy a car that has such a facility (i.e. they thereby support a manufacturer that dabbles in heinous practices)?
I have yet to encounter a person that has ethical problem with temporary disablement via the button. :)

-Uwe-
 
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IndianaMuscle

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I think the idea is that there may be acceptable reasons to turn off s/s temporarily.


I seriously doubt it.


Unclear. The EPA may take a different view of something that has it off by default rather than the factory's on by default. But the bureaucratic hive-mind is beyond my comprehension, so I'm only guessing.


I have yet to encounter a person that has ethical problem with temporary disablement via the button. :)

-Uwe-

All good points, but none of them are codified in law. The sticking point among the group is the “permanaent” disablement via coding and the horrors created by such. It’s like these folks think the EPA is lurking behind every tree.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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except for perhaps jack

I really don't care what someone does to their own property or on their own property & their privacy is to be respected, with inverse expectation & as long as it doesn't encroach on me or cause possible liability for me or someone I care for or the helpless & including my safe reasonably expected clean environment.

It's when that boundary is breached, pretty much for everything & as a rule for me, countermeasures or possible defense is to be taken with consideration of repercussions
 
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I really don't care what someone does to their own property or on their own property & their privacy is to be respected, with inverse expectation & as long as it doesn't encroach on me or cause possible liability for me or someone I care for or the helpless & including my safe reasonably expected clean environment.

It's when that boundary is breached, pretty much for everything & as a rule for me, countermeasures or possible defense is to be taken.

Happens to me on the road all the time. It’s like Mad Max out there. We all know the gun grabbing state of New York cuts your balls off, so have that phone ready to call the police for defense!
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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I'd be quite surprised if there's a specific start/stop law.

However, if the manufacturer (VW) used the fact that it has a start/stop system as part of the emissions certification process, then permanently disabling that system would make the car non-compliant with its emissions certification, and doing so would indeed be illegal according to the EPA's statement in the article you previously linked to. I mean an engine that isn't running inherently produces fewer emissions than one that is, right? And the emissions test cycle surely includes some simulated stopped-at-a-red-light time....

-Uwe-



Vehicle Identification No.3VW6T7BU9KM153XXX
ModelJetta 2,0
JEM
Date of production29.01.2019
Model year2019
Sales typeBU39VZ
Engine CodeDKFA
Transmission CodeTSX

Emission standard7CBEmission standard LEV 3/Tier 3 30

Durability Group: KVGAGPGNNA3AEvap.

Family: KVGAR0110ABBKVGAR0135ACT

Test Group: KVGAJ02.0A3A

Certificate Number: KVGAJ02.0A3A – 010, 018
Durability Group Description:Four Stroke, Otto Cycle, Gasoline Fueled, Direct Fuel Injection,Catalyst Code: UTC1007, UTC1005
Test group Description: 2.0 Liter Turbocharged I4 – LDV / LDT2 (Tiguan)
Applicable Standards: 50-State: Federal:CA:Tier 3 BIN 30 LEVIII SULEV30
Car lines Covered: Tiguan, Tiguan 4Motion, A3, A3 Cabriolet, A3 Cabriolet quattro,A3 quattro, TT Coupe quattro, TT Roadster quattro, Golf GTI,Jetta GLI


KVGAJ02.0A3A

Jetta GLI (DQ-F)DKFA

5G0.906.259.Q 0003 C75A4149
5G0259Q 0003 DXAJ80AD8F88 5G0259Q 0003 BXAJJetta GLI (MQ-F) B078ADC5
5G0259Q 0003 AXADF78F6304 5G0259Q 0003 CXAD



Engine Starting procedure:Press the brake pedal and move the selector lever into the P or N position.Press the “START ENGINE STOP” button or Start engine by turning key to “Start” positionESP/ABS Deactivation procedureDyno test mode must be activated!Fan Position during dyno testing:FTP / HWY = Small fan in front down position.US06 = Large fan in front down position.

Address 01: Engine (J623-DKFA) Labels: None
Part No SW: 5G0 906 259 Q HW: 06K 907 425 J
Component: 2.0l R4 TFSI H13 0003
Revision: --H13---
Coding: 092500124424012F3000


Address 02: Auto Trans (J743) Labels:. 0BH-927-711.clb
Part No SW: 0GC 300 020 G HW: 0GC 927 711 H
Component: GSG DQ381 H06 2403
Revision: 00H06V08
Coding: 0014

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   #91  

IndianaMuscle

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heh, their conclusion seems to just about sum up this thread.



Aside from the annoyances and legal minutia of start/stop behavior modification, I personally think you are acting selfishly and foolishly for disabling your vehicle(s) third brake light, despite any excuses or exclamations of your driving safety.

Third brake lights are not for YOU, they are for everyone behind you.

If I had a junker behind you, I'd be happy to test out your insurance company policies in that regards.

By the way this test you talk about is akin to me wanting you to be rear-ended by somebody in your new car and I do not find it in very good taste. Maybe you could test the theory of running into somebody or having someone run into you how’s that?

I could analogize the SH!!T out of this one but I’ll get banned in one post.
 
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I don’t know if I ever used the words “legal to do so” or the like, but I did say it wasn’t illegal. Call it what you will.

Not only did you, on page one:

I cannot say for UK, but in US it’s perfectly legal.

The forum response to your statement is literally the core topic of the next eight pages of the thread: what's legal vs what's likely to get you in trouble in the real world. At least for regular people who don't go tugging on Superman's cape by incriminating themselves in a letter to the EPA.

Do you have the integrity to acknowledge that much at least?
 
   #95  

IndianaMuscle

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Not only did you, on page one:



The forum response to your statement is literally the core topic of the next eight pages of the thread: what's legal vs what's likely to get you in trouble in the real world. At least for regular people who don't go tugging on Superman's cape by incriminating themselves in a letter to the EPA.

Do you have the integrity to acknowledge that much at least?

Until you prove otherwise, it’s legal. I won’t discuss that point any further. So I wrote to the EPA, the SS OFF button in each car already makes my point. Big deal.
 
   #96  

Uwe

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I’m armed.
Cool. Referring to the people of this country, Thomas Jefferson wrote: "It is their right and duty to be at all times armed". Many of us at Ross-Tech take that duty very seriously.

But I digress. Please refrain from veiled threats of violence. The only morally acceptable use of violence is in the defense people and property, and none of us here, not even Jack, is going to harm you or steal your stuff.

-Uwe-
 
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IndianaMuscle

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Cool. Referring to the people of this country, Thomas Jefferson wrote: "It is their right and duty to be at all times armed". Many of us at Ross-Tech take that duty very seriously.

But I digress. Please refrain from veiled threats of violence. The only morally acceptable use of violence is in the defense people and property, and none of us here, not even Jack, is going to harm you or steal your stuff.

-Uwe-

I don’t recall making even one threat of violence. Smart guys don’t threaten anyway. You’re talking to a former bar fighter here. You don’t discuss or threaten, you act.

You have nothing to fear from me unless threatened.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by kawzx7
We all know the gun grabbing state of New York cuts your balls off, so have that phone ready to call the police for defense!



You don't know Jack. ;)

-Uwe-


Have I attempted to refrain from arguing or answering idiots, Uwe?

Indeed I reside in the anti gun state, you & apparently the reckless poster has as you informed me & which still failed to capitulate, is that right?

Is this the part of the reg of the attached FTP to the aforementioned conformity certificate application & that would make a car as certified, illegal to disable or tamper it and yes making it a defeat device? :rolleyes:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2012-title40-vol34/pdf/CFR-2012-title40-vol34-part1066.pdf
40 CFR Subpart G - Special Compliance Provisions

40 CFR § 1037.660 - Idle-reduction technologies.

GHG morning coffee helper, Pardon me.......... :p

(b)Override conditions. The system may limit activation of the idle-reduction technology while any of the conditions of this paragraph (b) apply. These conditions allow the system to delay engine shutdown, adjust engine restarting, or delay disengaging transmissions, 'but do not allow for resetting timers'. Engines may restart and transmissions may re-engage during override conditions if the vehicle is set up to do this automatically. We may approve additional override criteria as needed to protect the engine and vehicle from damage and to ensure safe vehicleoperation.

Yeah that's the stop/start switch!

PHASE II <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ?

Yes indeed, he doesn't know Jack or the FFL, FTP, or CFR?
 
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