Fault code 17950

   #1  

Orchid70

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Golf IV Variant 2003
Engine BCB

EPC light lits first - after a while Engine light comes on.
After restart - no MIL.
Fault code: 17950 - Angle Sensor 1 for Throttle Actuator (G187): Implausible Signal

Below I have erased the fault vode - the rest looks like this - after couple of test drives - the MIL on again:
Code:
Monday,10,June,2019,17:16:55:18201
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4436.4
Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com

Dealer/Shop Name: Firma Johannes Bruun 
Workshop Code: 000 02013 000000

VIN: WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756   License Plate: SDD744ROSSTECH
Mileage: 224990km-139802mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
VIN: WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756   Mileage: 224990km-139802miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 036-906-034-AZD.clb
   Part No: 036 906 034 DR
   Component:  MARELLI 4MV G      5957  
   Coding: 00031
   Shop #: WSC 40150  
   VCID: 6597B3CE2C75B7BF0DB-4B5C
   WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756     VWZ6Z0B0301606

No fault code found.
Readiness: 1010 0001

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 L
   Component: ABS FRONT MK60      0101  
   Coding: 0001025
   Shop #: WSC 01266 785 00200
   VCID: 33331D96D721190F53F-51A8

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 A
   Component: 27 AIRBAG VW51 01   0006  
   Coding: 12855
   Shop #: WSC 01266  
   VCID: 221DE8D27DDB8087A89-5184

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+ 
            07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 920 806 B
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB8 V24  
   Coding: 05113
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 2615F4C211F37CA7C41-5184
   WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756     VWZ6Z0B0301606

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 01266  
   VCID: 70B9D29AE3B762176ED-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 
   Component: 1F Komfortgerát HLO 0001  
   Coding: 00259
   Shop #: WSC 01266  
   VCID: 74B1DE8A97AF5E378A5-4B3C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 1F Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0004  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 1F Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0004  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
   Component: 1F Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0004  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
   Component: 1F Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0004  

1 Fault Found:
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
            27-00 - Implausible Signal

End----(Elapsed Time: 05:00, VBatt start/end: 11.7V/11.7V. VIgn 11.7V)-----
The Throttle body is changed sometime before - VDO.
And Measuring block 062 looks like this with resting accelerator pedal - engine off:

Code:
17:18:08 Group 062: Electronic Throttle (Sensor Values)
  4.9 %  Throttle Valve Sensor 1 (G187)
  94.4 %  Throttle Valve Sensor 2 (G188)
  14.0 %  Accel. Pedal Pos. Sensor 1 (G79)
  14.0 %  Accel. Pedal Pos. Sensor 2 (G185)

17:18:08 Group 060: Electronic Throttle (Throttle Body Alignment)
  4.9 %  Throttle Valve Sensor 1 (G187)
  94.0 %  Throttle Valve Sensor 2 (G188)
  12.0  Throttle Valve Steps Counter
  ADP. O.K.  Throttle Body Alignment Status

17:18:08 Group 061: Electronic Throttle
  0 /min  Engine Speed (G28)
     Battery Voltage (Terminal 30)
  27.1 %  Throttle Valve Angle 
     00000  Operating Condition
And with pedal on floor

Code:
17:20:28 Group 062: Electronic Throttle (Sensor Values)
  4.9 %  Throttle Valve Sensor 1 (G187)
  94.0 %  Throttle Valve Sensor 2 (G188)
  79.0 %  Accel. Pedal Pos. Sensor 1 (G79)
  78.0 %  Accel. Pedal Pos. Sensor 2 (G185)
% on both pedal position sensor 1 and 2 are the same! (Throttle position sensors % were moving as they should - this above was measured with engine off)
Is the pedal sensor known to go bad or is there somewhere alse I should take a look before changing the pedal/sensor?
Can the sensor be fixed?

Thanks
 
   #2  

Uwe

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The fault code is for the sensor on the throttle body, not the pedal.

If you have already replaced the throttle body, my bet is in a dodgy connection of some kind to the throttle body.

-Uwe-
 
   #3  

Jack@European_Parts

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In addition to Uwe's suggestion......

A faulty OXS sensor heater circuit or consumer on power BUS can take out the throttle drivers in ECU sporadically or wipe them out entirely making people change the TV and pedal sensor unneeded and indeed could be the ECU being faulty now or even a wire harness from ECU to TV.

I would unplug OXS sensors or fuse them real low to see if a heater shorting pops the circuit to protect ECU and open ECU and inspect for damage, you might be in time before it burns down.

This problem while seems more reported in Bosch type controllers in this time period of production & indeed took place also with Simos and Marelli too!
 
   #4  

Orchid70

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This is how the autoscan looks like - again =/:

Code:
Wednesday,12,June,2019,14:34:56:18201
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4436.4
Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com

Dealer/Shop Name: Firma Johannes Bruun 
Workshop Code: 000 02013 000000

VIN: WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756   License Plate: SAD799
Mileage: 225040km-139833mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
          76
 
VIN: WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756   Mileage: 225040km-139833miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 036-906-034-AZD.clb
   Part No: 036 906 034 DR
   Component:  MARELLI 4MV G      5957  
   Coding: 00031
   Shop #: WSC 40150  
   VCID: 6597B3CE2C75B7BF0DB-4B5C
   WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756     VWZ6Z0B0301606

1 Fault Found:
17950 - Angle Sensor 1 for Throttle Actuator (G187) 
            P1542 - 35-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Readiness: 1000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ABS.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 907 379 L
   Component: ABS FRONT MK60      0101  
   Coding: 0001025
   Shop #: WSC 01266 785 00200
   VCID: 33331D96D721190F53F-51A8

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
            013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 909 605 A
   Component: 27 AIRBAG VW51 01   0006  
   Coding: 12855
   Shop #: WSC 01266  
   VCID: 221DE8D27DDB8087A89-5184

1 Fault Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+ 
            07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
   Part No: 1J0 920 806 B
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB8 V24  
   Coding: 05113
   Shop #: WSC 00000  
   VCID: 2615F4C211F37CA7C41-5184
   WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756     VWZ6Z0B0301606

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
   Part No: 6N0 909 901 
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001  
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 01266  
   VCID: 70B9D29AE3B762176ED-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
   Part No: 1C0 959 799 
   Component: 1F Komfortgerát HLO 0001  
   Coding: 00259
   Shop #: WSC 01266  
   VCID: 74B1DE8A97AF5E378A5-4B3C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
   Component: 1F Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0004  

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
   Component: 1F Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0004  

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
   Component: 1F Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0004  

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
   Component: 1F Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0004  

1 Fault Found:
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
            27-00 - Implausible Signal

End----------(Elapsed Time: 05:02, VBatt start/end: 14.1V/14.1V)-----------
Reason why I suspected accelerator pedal s ensors is this:


Accelerator sensors give same %. Both say 14% when pedal not depressed - and both say ca 79% when its pressed on floor.

I guess is time to take out the lambda sensors.
 
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   #5  

Orchid70

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Connector to the Throttle body is new. The locking pin was broken.
Battery is not that very healthy. But I dont like those other fault codes in supply voltage and engine control module.....
 
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Orchid70

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I found the old fault codes I had from last summer when the car went into limp home and I do not like what I see, now when I know better:

17591 - O2 sensor short to plus - intermittent
17953 - Throttle valve controller - intermittent
17962 - Throttle actuator - conditions for masic settings not met - intermittent

Taking out the lambdas now!
I have a friend who use to work for VAG and has his own garage now - he had NO idea of this, about the lambda sonds and how they get shorted, frying the ECM!

Shiiit.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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17591 - O2 sensor short to plus - intermittent
17953 - Throttle valve controller - intermittent
17962 - Throttle actuator - conditions for masic settings not met - intermittent

 
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Orchid70

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Yes?
Sometimes I have hard time understanding you =) (Swedish or actually Finnish, you see - english is not my native language).
Im trying to figure out how to manage to fuse the heated circuits, any bright ideas? Only way I can figure it - Id need to cut the wire somewhere.
Sensors look good, wiring on them as well look good.
 
   #9  

Orchid70

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Cannot erase the Address 03: ABS
01304 Engine Controle Module - DTC precent

Taking out the ECM to the local electric repair guy and see if we can see whats happened to it.
And ordering both O2 sensors - is this the right thing to do in this point?
Would it be a good idea to take it to the VAG dealer first to retrieve the code from ECM?
 
   #10  

Orchid70

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Found the fault?!!
Finelly ECU out - someone have been there before - the wire holder wasnt snapped round the loom.
Pin number 101 is bent together to pin 100 on the ECU...
Check the colour on some of the pins....
ECU:
Magnetti Marelli
036906034DR
61600.666.08

Pictures of the pins:



 
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   #11  

Orchid70

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J448 pin T121/100 is one of the signal to EGR
J448 pin T121/101 I cannot find where it goes to.
 
   #12  

Orchid70

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I bent the pin back and took a drive - same fault remained.
Fault code 17950 and the accelerator pedal gives 41%/14% up to 97%/97% values.
So Will open the ECU now
And measure wiring between ECU <-> Throttle and ECU <-> Accelerator pedal

I called the local dealer and the guy was total waste of time - did not know what engine ECU was - not untill I called it a CONTROLLER, then he was onboard. And hang on to the fact that I had cleaned the throttle body a year ago - he told me that they needed to "code" the throttle after that..... I tried to tell that the car did not need "coding" - but it didnt help.
I called an other dealer and had I nice talk to the customer contact. He told he had a friend who had same problem with throttle - they changed it and for no help, untill they found something wrong with the wiring. They had never sold an ECU to this older modells. Or a pedal sensor for that matter.

Does someone find where the pin T121/101, on the ECU, goes to?
 
   #14  

Orchid70

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Jack - I have not bought a tone generator.
So wiring diagram and folowing the colours is what I have =/
This problem have been there for years (car bought by our friend in the automn of 2017) - nice of them to leave a note for me .... =)
 
   #15  

Jack@European_Parts

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Yeah it's like finding a beer can inside the air box & it having a note on it saying, "you found the rattle asshole, signed, Westmoreland PA assembly line"!

I'd look it up but I'm busy getting well at the bar & early after mowing the lawns.
Nice hot day for Kahlua chocolate espresso milk shakes.
Maybe later today.....
 
   #16  

Orchid70

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FINELLLY - I have understood what you are saying Jack =P
Kahlua is mmmmmmmmmmm nice =)
Im from Finland - and we like VODKA (Koskenkorva)!! But Im starting to get too old - so I usually mix myself a drink instead! And the drinks make me hung over for couple of days after....
 
   #17  

Orchid70

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Ive been looking into a short finder - tone generator - do you have a recommendation on what to get? Not too fancy but still usable.
 
   #18  

Jack@European_Parts

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I like Fluke


Vehicle Identification No.WVWZZZ1JZ3W270756
ModelGolf variant 1,6
GOLF
Date of production10.10.2002
Model year2003
Sales type1J50E4
Engine CodeBCB
Transmission CodeERT

FOD checking!

Address 01: Engine Labels: 036-906-034-AZD.clb
Part No: 036 906 034 DR PASS

The Good, The Bad and the ugly......

T121/101 is unsupported from what I can see and goes no where in engine harness but that doesn't mean that shorting from EGR leg T120/100 to the pin 101 didn't cause a controller problem!

Something dumb could of back fed from D101 too through a component shared on track!

https://i.postimg.cc/5fdXzZ3z/J448-for-Vodka-toast.png?dl=1


 
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   #19  

Orchid70

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<3 <3 <3 <3

"J448-for-Vodka-toast.png"... for me?

:thanks::D

Hope you didnt have to move more lawn today... hard work - Ive done it, by hand..... to get more place for the "cars".
 
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   #20  

Orchid70

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So Ive checked for contiunity from ECU to Throttle and from ECU to pedal.
All good - except the number "220 Earth connection (sender earth), in engine wiring harness"
I tried to find where all earth connection are - but couldnt find such page. Nor did it help to follow the number "220" line in the wiring diagram.
I did clean the earth connectors under the battery tray.
But I did not get any continuity between ECU pin 108 and body.

 
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